British Airways order

Captain Remi · Post by **Captain Remi** » 03 Sep 2007, 10:13

? The A388 wing is actually "overbuilt" for its capacity and therefore compromises fuel-efficiency. ?

=> Euhm, a wing which is "overbuilt", meaning able to carry more load than needed for instance is in fact never compromising fuel-efficiency, but ENHANCING fuel efficiency...

achace · Post by **achace** » 03 Sep 2007, 10:45

Captain Remi's explanation may be why the 388 despite being 1% overweight has in fact exceeded its performance guarantees (except on delivery)

Cheers
Achace

CX · Post by CX » 03 Sep 2007, 11:35

The A380F programme is actually part of the A389 sharing similar reinforcement structures from what i understand, the A380F was ahead of the A389, and now the A380F has been paused, i don't think the A389 is anywhere near imminent.

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 04 Sep 2007, 00:18

=> Euhm, a wing which is "overbuilt", meaning able to carry more load than needed for instance is in fact never compromising fuel-efficiency, but ENHANCING fuel efficiency...

That's what gives it more range. You are right.
But that is only interesting for the longest trips.
The A380 monster's interest is in the fact that it can carry more pax per flight.

Let me put it like this:
Giving a B737 B777-wings is not really efficient. It will have the range to go around the world non-stop...but with only 150 pax...

Airbus said that the A380 wing is made to hold 650 tons.
The A388's MTOW is 580 ton.

There still is a compromise of range when you fly heavier... (yes, there is no way to avoid the laws of Lift & Drag).
But the little decrease in range is not significant compared to the increase of the seat numbers.
More seats on one plane means alot of cost-cutting: less maintenance fees, less costs linked with to operations: catering, handling, ATC,...

Interesting for BA for routes like LHR-JFK where the capacity is more important than the range.

achace · Post by **achace** » 04 Sep 2007, 02:36

As the 389 wing exists, if Airbus could convert some existing orders, it would offer them a great opportunity to recoup some of the losses of the 388, as each 389 could have a 388 loss factor added to the price.

It would make commercial sense, and also remove itself a little further from the 748 as a competitor.

Interesting no-one in our forum has made any reference to a BA 748 order.

Perhaps the Times inside information is correct.

Cheers
Achace

CX · Post by CX » 04 Sep 2007, 06:38

It's just that there werent' any mention of 748I in the latest article so no one is talking about it, but given that they are replacing 744s, i don't believe they will replace the 744 fleet entirely with A380s, unless it is 'that' good.

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 04 Sep 2007, 08:53

I think that they have no interest in the 748 (but that again is my opinion).

BA is not a routine launch customer, and to date, there has been no B748 pax version on order.
BA also knows that in the passenger version, the A380 performs much better than the B748, and that it would be more appreciated by the customers.
Ordering 10 B748's wouldn t make economical sense since they will need to dedicate whole departments to that one type.

Replacing 57 B744's by the same number of A380's is nuts.
A380 for hub-to-hub
A350 for long-haul point-to-point
B777 for long-haul point-to-point
B787 for short/long-haul point-to-point
A320 for short-haul point-to-point

And my guess is that in 15 years or so, the B777's will be replaced by A350's progressively.

achace · Post by **achace** » 04 Sep 2007, 09:05

Dont forget Lufthansa ordered 20 B748I, but they are looking very lonely.

Cheers
Achace

Captain Remi · Post by **Captain Remi** » 04 Sep 2007, 09:34

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... ft-to.html

This article gives some insight into BA's plans.
They are for sure also considering the 748I. This and some other articles show that as well.
However...this doesn't mean that the chances or better for the 748I...

Captain Remi · Post by **Captain Remi** » 04 Sep 2007, 09:36

The article states that in the first batch, the choice will be between the 748I and A388.

However, in the second batch (after the initial order of around 50 planes to replace 767's and 747-400's) there could be a mix between A388's and 748I's to replace all 747-400's.

CX · Post by CX » 04 Sep 2007, 11:43

achace wrote:Dont forget Lufthansa ordered 20 B748I, but they are looking very lonely.

Cheers
Achace

Emirates will add to that soon right? When is the dubai show?

David747 · Post by **David747** » 04 Sep 2007, 15:54

Emirates could join Lufthansa with the 748I at Dubai, but that remains to be seen. I do think that BA will replace half of its 747's with a new aircraft, but I don't think it will be the A380 only.