Ryanair threatens to pull out of Charleroi

Airbus330lover · Post by **Airbus330lover** » 23 Aug 2007, 15:02

Everything is possible, but if FR leaves CRL, another player will come and...FR will loose a lot of business !! This business will not automaticcaly transfert to Eindhoven, Lille Aachen...

lcc · Post by **lcc** » 23 Aug 2007, 19:48

Airbus330lover wrote:FR is not always the cheapest one. the passeger must compare. Sure is FR a LCC but not always the cheapest.
Read carefull and compare.

I am comparing indeed
There is a difference between a guy, not very objective

considering its posts on Ryanair, saying that when he does a booking, ryanair is not only the cheapest, and an other, who really looks at the fact and at the real fares.
On CRLVLC vs. BRUVLC, Ryanair is ALWAYS the cheapest, with an average price difference of 177€.

I did an other simulation.
CRLFAO with Ryanair vs. BRUFAO with Brussels airlines - 1 week trip starting at CRL - from the 1 september to the 12 november.

Schedule there again very similar. Sample is of 23 return tickets (46 flights)

Result: ZERO flight where SN is cheapest than ryanair, ZERO
Average price difference: 142€
Minimum price difference: 60€
Maximum price difference: 290€

So, even if you add the bus tickets at CRL and the luggage and everything, even if the worst case (60€ of difference), FR is always cheapest than SN...

I won't take all the routes, but for these two routes, FR is ALWAYS cheaper than SN.
That is a FACT, not an opinion or a personal experience based on... the person.

OK, in this two cases FR is ALWAYS cheapest than SN, but I am sure there are some cases where SN is a little bit cheapest. But I think we can't say that SN is often/sometimes cheapest than Ryanair. The only adjective we can use, based on facts, is: Ryanair is VERY rarely more expansive than SN, and even NEVER on some routes.

I am hoping now that you will use that correct term when you will speak again(st) about Ryanair fares

On the subject, I am 100% sure that CRL will give Ryanair a compensation, because if not both will loose. FR AND CRL. After, we can speak hours on who will be the big loosers, with +/- clever arguments, but I think that in one week everybody will be happy and CRL will have its 2 additional aircraft for the next summer schedule - and even an international base?

Airbus330lover · Post by **Airbus330lover** » 23 Aug 2007, 20:00

lcc wrote:
Airbus330lover wrote:FR is not always the cheapest one. the passeger must compare. Sure is FR a LCC but not always the cheapest.
Read carefull and compare.
I am comparing indeed
There is a difference between a guy, not very objective considering its posts on Ryanair, saying that when he does a booking, ryanair is not only the cheapest, and an other, who really looks at the fact and at the real fares.
On CRLVLC vs. BRUVLC, Ryanair is ALWAYS the cheapest, with an average price difference of 177€.

I did an other simulation.
CRLFAO with Ryanair vs. BRUFAO with Brussels airlines - 1 week trip starting at CRL - from the 1 september to the 12 november.

Schedule there again very similar. Sample is of 23 return tickets (46 flights)

Result: ZERO flight where SN is cheapest than ryanair, ZERO
Average price difference: 142€
Minimum price difference: 60€
Maximum price difference: 290€

So, even if you add the bus tickets at CRL and the luggage and everything, even if the worst case (60€ of difference), FR is always cheapest than SN...

I won't take all the routes, but for these two routes, FR is ALWAYS cheaper than SN.
That is a FACT, not an opinion or a personal experience based on... the person.

OK, in this two cases FR is ALWAYS cheapest than SN, but I am sure there are some cases where SN is a little bit cheapest. But I think we can't say that SN is often/sometimes cheapest than Ryanair. The only adjective we can use, based on facts, is: Ryanair is VERY rarely more expansive than SN, and even NEVER on some routes.

I am hoping now that you will use that correct term when you will speak again(st) about Ryanair fares

On the subject, I am 100% sure that CRL will give Ryanair a compensation, because if not both will loose. FR AND CRL. After, we can speak hours on who will be the big loosers, with +/- clever arguments, but I think that in one week everybody will be happy and CRL will have its 2 additional aircraft for the next summer schedule - and even an international base?

I can try too and try after 12/ november too

stefanel · Post by **stefanel** » 23 Aug 2007, 20:05

I was right, it was just a threat... just watched the news and MoL was just smiling and fooling around the Belgian delegation, accepting an interview and being kind, soft and finely shaded for once!
They haven't opened the sales back but I'm sure it's for tomorrow...
Great free advertising stunt, even if very negative...

Airbus330lover · Post by **Airbus330lover** » 23 Aug 2007, 20:09

I said LCA
Low Cost Advertising !

TUB001 · Post by **TUB001** » 23 Aug 2007, 20:14

stefanel wrote:I was right, it was just a threat...

Everybody knew that before...

Airbus330lover · Post by **Airbus330lover** » 23 Aug 2007, 20:52

To LCC

Tried BRU MRS and CRL MRS departing 25/10 return on 3/11
Normally I fly to FNI but closed
SN total 99.51EUR
FR total 129.43 EUR excluding handling fees

Before saying ALWAYS cheaper, please be carefull !

8)

Buzz · Post by **Buzz** » 23 Aug 2007, 22:44

TWA wrote:yesterday on rtl-tvi:

Jetairfly offered to take over the routes in case FR withdraws, so I guess no jobs will be lost and the only loser in Charleroi will be FR.

Jetairfly offered to 'consider' taking over 'some' routes if FR withdraws...
Where would they get the planes?

Gliderpilot · Post by **Gliderpilot** » 23 Aug 2007, 22:49

Buzz wrote:
TWA wrote:yesterday on rtl-tvi:

Jetairfly offered to take over the routes in case FR withdraws, so I guess no jobs will be lost and the only loser in Charleroi will be FR.
Jetairfly offered to 'consider' taking over 'some' routes if FR withdraws...
Where would they get the planes?

From FR?

I heard FR is selling his oldest 738's to replace them with newer ones.

(it seems highly unlikely to me, jetairfly isn't a LCC or haven't the knowledge to keep prices as low as FR, so higher prices, less passengers)

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 23 Aug 2007, 23:03

They can get planes if they need some for expansion from TUI with little problem.

So, even if you add the bus tickets at CRL and the luggage and everything, even if the worst case (60€ of difference), FR is always cheapest than SN...

That is only if your destination is in FR's portfolio from CRL!
But FR only flies to a limited number of destinations. You can plan transits with FR, but it's gonna be a real hell because you will often need to check for a hotel. And if you buy 2 tickets (incl. transit), your ticket will be way more expensive.
And I d rather pay 50€ more with SN than taking that hell-train between Girona and Barcelona and go until CRL instead of BRU.

Gliderpilot · Post by **Gliderpilot** » 23 Aug 2007, 23:22

@flyforhours: I don't think it's fair to compare both airlines on different routes. SN operates a lot more routes from BRU than FR does from CRL. On the destinations that SN serves, but FR doesn't, SN will be the cheapest (because you won't get there with FR)... But if you compare same destinations that both airlines serves, FR will be the cheapest in 99% (or even more) of the cases...

Or do you think it's fare to compare fares to FIH with SN and FR? You can take FR to the most southern destination they serve, and travel the rest of your trip by car or boat?

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 23 Aug 2007, 23:56

I know but I m not comparing routes, just destinations, and that is what matters to the traveller.
You can get almost anywhere in Europe with FR if you re ready to transit 1, 2 or 3 times.
I'm not the kind of person, and I m sure I represent the majority, that decide their destination on behalf of the airline's routes.

If I say I wanna go to Barcelona, I wanna go to Barcelona.
If I wanna go to Cagliari for instance, I can take Bru.air and if I book early enough I won't pay more than 150€ the return trip. If I do the same with FR, I will need to transit through Pisa, Girona or Madrid and perhaps book a hotel for one night, plus arrival will be at the worst hours...
If you take all that into account I will pay 3 times the price of the Bru.air flight and it will take me twice as much time to arrive there, without even considering the fact that I will need to hang around all that time with all my luggage, plus, the eventual stress of delays...
Getting to Charleroi is also not an easy matter for some people...there is no train-station yet and car parking is expensive... And you can't ask your son to drive 200 km at 5 o clock in the morning before he goes to the job...

On direct and same routes FR is cheaper and better. But how many are there? 3 or 4 maybe?
If you think about all that, BRU.AIR doesn t have that bad a product.

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 24 Aug 2007, 00:14

RYANAIR WILL SELL TICKETS AGAIN FROM MONDAY.

http://www.hln.be/hlns/cache/det/art_56 ... =hlnMatrix

But CRL says that they take the Jetair proposal very seriously.

http://www.hln.be/hlns/cache/det/art_56 ... kanaalArt2

Charlie Roy · Post by **Charlie Roy** » 24 Aug 2007, 00:22

If I wanna go to Cagliari for instance, I can take Bru.air and if I book early enough I won't pay more than 150€ the return trip. If I do the same with FR, I will need to transit through Pisa, Girona or Madrid

WHAT are you on about?!
No body would dispute the fact that you should fly from BRU - Cagliari with SN instead of getting there somehow on the Ryanair network. Nobody is suggesting to only fly Ryanair when travelling Europe.

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 24 Aug 2007, 00:29

I m just saying it's often cheaper with SN except on direct competition routes and Cagliari is just an easy example.

Post by **sn26567** » 24 Aug 2007, 09:09

stefanel wrote:MoL was just smiling and fooling around the Belgian delegation, accepting an interview and being kind, soft and finely shaded for once!...

Yeah, but the BSCA delegation, which arrived in the morning on an FR flight (paid at top last minute rates), had to wait several hours before MoL finally accepted to see them for 30 minutes.

stefanel · Post by **stefanel** » 24 Aug 2007, 09:17

sn26567 wrote:
stefanel wrote:MoL was just smiling and fooling around the Belgian delegation, accepting an interview and being kind, soft and finely shaded for once!...
Yeah, but the BSCA delegation, which arrived in the morning on an FR flight (paid at top last minute rates), had to wait several hours before MoL finally accepted to see them for 30 minutes.

I think it's disgusting. What a lack of consideration and what a great deal of arrogance !

stefanel · Post by **stefanel** » 24 Aug 2007, 09:25

TUB001 wrote:
stefanel wrote:I was right, it was just a threat...
Everybody knew that before...

If you read this thread, you will see that many people speculated about CRL without FR. And I think I got you after two posts.

FD-X · Post by **FD-X** » 24 Aug 2007, 09:38

Just consider the costs of having to buy advertisement space on the first page of every newspaper in Belgium.......
Side effects:
1 Everyone talks about Ryanair and about the airport of Charleroi.
2 Everyone will know on monday that it is safe to book a flight from Charleroi, because there will be an emergency plan.
What would be a better moment than on Monday to announce that:
"After this reestablishment of confidence in the airport of Brussels South Ryanair bases the long-expected additional 4 Boeings in CRL?"

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 24 Aug 2007, 13:19

Yeah but FR has lost anyway because CRL announced they were confident that the 83% FR stake on the traffic at this airport will decrease as other players will find their way to the renewed airport and that this is somehow their goal...
This means that they didn't buy the fact that they had been treated like shit just to support Mr. O'Leary's cheap advertising campaign and that they encourage other major players to join their airport.
I m sure this will help CRL to build good relations with FR's competition, because:

"L'ennemi de mon ami est mon ennemi"