Ryanair threatens to pull out of Charleroi

Air Key West · Post by **Air Key West** » 22 Aug 2007, 22:10

Guys, don't get as arrogant, agressive and rude as MOL. In the end it is counterproductive. MOL will learn that one day.

LX-LGX · Post by **LX-LGX** » 22 Aug 2007, 22:14

latest news: jetairfly.com will look for new destinations out of CRL if Ryanair really quits

http://tinyurl.com/227j7h

(I haven't found this in French or English yet)

lcc · Post by **lcc** » 22 Aug 2007, 22:29

1.

a380bigbeast wrote:
Cartman wrote:To come back to more clever considerations, did Ryanair asked money to the French government when French ATC went on strike?
If my memory is good, the last strike was only Aeroport de Paris, so it didn't affect any flights of FR. It was even a good thing for them as they probably took some passengers from Aer lingus - AF canceled flight

2. Who will be the losser in the conflict?
- Scenario 1: FR and CRL agree in few days on a compromise. FR would have lost some passengers, but not a lot as bookings for Nov-Dec-Jan-Feb-Mar havent't really started for the moment. But, CRL would have lost exactly in the same proportion, because one passengers lost to BRU is one passenger less that pay taxes, don't spend money at the airport etc
Scenario 1: both lost in the same proportion

- Scenario 2: FR is leaving CRL.
pressman wrote:MOL doesn't operate the same way as the text books that eddy reads , he is ruthless, belgium is not the centre of the universe

Funny and absolutely TRUE.
MOL is OF COURSE capable to leave CRL without any problem. Do u know how many aircraft are based at CRL? four I think, it is NOTHING for Ryanair. Do you know how many aircraft MOL is capable to keep on the tarmac at STN just to protest of the new level of taxes at London airports?
11!!!!!

I know, it is contrary to all the air transport concepts teached by eddy (an aircraft is only earning money in the air etc) but MOL business model is so perfect that even of this basic theory, he doesn't care!!! Its airline will be profitable anyway. Yes sir, who really like to vomit on Ryanair, FR will be profitable with or without CRL 100% sure. And they have 3 months to have another base: eaaaaaaaassssssyyyyyyyyyyy

Wheras on the other hand, are you really serious when you said that CRL doesn't need ryanair???
If you think that Jet4u and Blue air are able to attract the same passenger number than Ryanair, you are completely drunk :drink:
Less passenger number = drop of the taxes, drop of the business inside the airport = drop of the income generated by the parking = drop of the rents for the shops = difficulties to pay the investment for the new terminal = huge reduction of the employees number
That's inevitable. If ryanair leaves CRL, the big looser is CRL
Scenario 2: looser FR, big looser CRL

The biggest risk is for CRL, except if easyJet arrives at CRL which would be VERY bizarre as it is not their business model (main airport etc)

I have been victim of a strike of the SNCF few years ago. Just before an interview... Fu*** stikers, they are so egocentric that they are taking in hostage all the passengers which them also have their personal life to manage also. For one time, a BIG player tell them, "no you can't take 20.000 passengers in hostage because of the matters of 100 people", me I applause with my both hands. If they want also to be refund of the looses cause by this strike and want to protect their passenger as well, I applause also with my both feet and my both knees

Finally, if they find a compromise, but it is followed by a new strike by CRL personel, I am 99% sure that Ryanair will definitely leave the airport, and I am sure the final loosers will be the strikers because if they don't have any money at the end of the followings months for their family, it will be their faults... Strike is a right. Travel also is. It is a question of proportion. FR canno't accept that 100 people use their right to cancel the right of 20.000 people. For me, that makes sense.

It is rude yes, it is ryanair, but it works so well and it allow millions of passengers to travel at a very lower prices than SN

lcc · Post by **lcc** » 22 Aug 2007, 22:30

Air Key West wrote:Guys, don't get as arrogant, agressive and rude as MOL. In the end it is counterproductive. MOL will learn that one day.

do u have any personl matters with him?

luckyme · Post by **luckyme** » 22 Aug 2007, 22:43

I think there is a chance that Ryanair could say bye bye to CRL but it is less than maybe 30%. If you look at what has already happened at Stansted for example, this winter 7 aircraft are being moved because of costs and other issues. The new bases in Alicante and Valencia were unplanned for this winter but an oppurtunity was seen to move the aircraft.

The same thing could happen at CRL because there are so many airports suitable to become bases. The problem Ryanair have is that CRL and Belgium (+France/Netherlands) is an important market but there are always problems with the airport. The strike was the final straw. My estimate is that it cost approximately €1.8 - 2 million in lost revenues and costs.

Ryanair wants to expand at CRL possibly next Summer but first there must be a guartantee that this sort of damage cannot happen again. The strike happened just as all airlines really make their profits and was really dumb. (Do the people who started the strike even care about any mess they cause or do they have 'guaranteed jobs'?)

Even if you don't like Ryanair that's fine but they keep ticket prices down in BRU so if they go then prices go up again and nobody wins.I really hope that they (BSCA and RYR) can sort it out but there are lots of questions to be answered first. MOL keeps it interesting anyway.

Best wishes.
Lucky Me (not very)

Air Key West · Post by **Air Key West** » 22 Aug 2007, 22:53

lcc wrote:
Air Key West wrote:Guys, don't get as arrogant, agressive and rude as MOL. In the end it is counterproductive. MOL will learn that one day.
do u have any personl matters with him?

I don't like people in general who are arrogant and try to mislead you.

lcc · Post by **lcc** » 22 Aug 2007, 23:06

Airbus330lover wrote:
lcc wrote:
Airbus330lover wrote:No stress, in many cases you can take a plane from BRU to a real airport for the same final price.
:drink:
are u drunk?
Not drunk, be sure, i only wanted to point that FR and certyains other LCC are not always cheaper !
I see it when I reserve and pay....
And please destination by destination.

It is you who first compare BRUMRS with CRLFNI. Now you would like to compare them destination by destination, but it doesn't exist with Ryanair at BRU/CRL so what the interest of this argument?

Finally, I did a little study.
Comparison of the price of BRUVLC operated by Brussels airlines vs. CRLVLC operated by Ryanair. Schedule very similar (departure around 1:00)
Comparaison of all the return prices, taxes inclusives for a one week trip (monday to monday, tuesday to tuesday...) from the 1 september to the 12 november (no more fares available after this date for ryanair).
The sample was of 35 return tickets (70 flights)

Result
*****

ZERO flight where SN is cheaper than FR
Average difference of price: 177€ less expansive with ryanair!!!
Minimum difference of price: 27€
Maximum difference of price: 475€

I don't want to see on any website that Ryanair is often more expansive than legacy carier. This is a big lying. Even if you add the bus, the card card fees etc etc Ryanair is very cheapest than its competitors.
I know it is currently fashionable in this industry to say that low cost are rarely cheaper than legacy carrier, especially because of easyJet who indeed is sometimes more expansive than its competitors few days before the flights. But for ryanair, I can take whatever the routes you ask me to take, I am sure than minimum in 90% of the cases, Ryanair will be cheapest than SN - all fees and bus tickets included.

lcc · Post by **lcc** » 22 Aug 2007, 23:13

Air Key West wrote: I don't like people in general who are arrogant and try to mislead you.

Arrogancy stop if you were right
MOL is very self confident, yes, but not arrogant, because he did so few errors since he manage the company. That's my point of view

lcc · Post by **lcc** » 22 Aug 2007, 23:22

luckyme wrote:The same thing could happen at CRL because there are so many airports suitable to become bases.

100% agree with you
MLA, BOH, FAO, MST, EIN, FKB, AHO, WRO could be possible base

FR could give up CRL for sure (even if for me it will be solve in the forthcoming week), and the principal lossers will be the belgium passengers, because SN will increase its fares and jetairfly or easyJet are much more expansive than ryanair. Of course, business travelers like us, we don't really care. But it is just a miss for all the students or families that had the chance to go abroad thanks to ryanair, and for the business of CRL area as well

Air Key West · Post by **Air Key West** » 22 Aug 2007, 23:22

You're entitled to your point of view. I am entitled to mine. Why is it Ryanair has recently been condemned twice at least by the British Advertising Standards Authority for misleading advertisements ?
And by the way, FR is claiming one million euros in damages from CRL for the strike mid-June. What is one million if you have 400 millions net yearly income?
Ryanair just wants to set a precedent so they can blackmail other airports with the same threats. But on one point you are right : most of the time FR is cheaper. But should we (you) not stop looking only for the cheapest and throw in some ethics, too ?

Airbus330lover · Post by **Airbus330lover** » 22 Aug 2007, 23:24

TUB001 wrote:You have to be drunk or crazy (to quote someone else) to believe Ryanair is more expensive than another airline we know well, and that their service is absolutely terrible! WRONG! And please don't tell me flying an old Avro is more comfortable than a brand new B737-800...

Not that I agree with Ryanair on everything, but there are some limits...

Sorry, but I only said that FR is not always the cheapest one. the passeger must compare. Sure is FR a LCC but not always the cheapest.
I flew FR, Bru air and others, but the purpose of my intervention is only to avoid standards reaction like "FR always the cheapest, Bru Air, always bad and too expensive."
Read carefull and compare.

Airbus330lover · Post by **Airbus330lover** » 22 Aug 2007, 23:29

pressman wrote:Eddy Van de Voorde is talking through his ass , he hasn't a clue , MOL doesn't operate the same way as the text books that eddy reads , he is ruthless and he has no conscience , who ever said that ryr HAD to have a base in belgium , belgium is not the centre of the universe , Lille is an attractive airport only down the road from CRL , and the dark horse is in my book Zaventem , they are starting to cater for LCCs and maybe ryr want to get the jump on Easy - Zaventem is wild speculation though - my money would be on Lille or Eindhoven

First of all, care off your words.
Second, for people around BRU, CRL, OST a move to Lille is not a problem. You seems to forget people within a bigger distance from CRL and more to the east side, they don't want to go to Lille, ....too far

an-148 · Post by **an-148** » 22 Aug 2007, 23:31

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 22 Aug 2007, 23:35

If you think that Jet4u and Blue air are able to attract the same passenger number than Ryanair, you are completely drunk
(...)
That's inevitable. If ryanair leaves CRL, the big looser is CRL

You don t read what other people write do you?

Jet4you and BlueAir are those added this year only... it was to show that this airport was subject of interest to many airlines.

If Ryanair leaves, the impact on the personnel will be as little as nothing. They are already operating on a strict minimum. Maybe 10 Securitas outsourced people will need to be relocated and that's it.
And no one security guy who went on strike will need to miss any paycheck, because Ryanair or not, you need those guys and they are paid by the Walloon region. They are not as stupid as to fire them and give them unemployment money

Easyjet is a very likely candidate and it would be a dream for them to take-over a succesful Ryanair base and compete directly with BRU destinations.
Certainly now that CRL is becoming a real "main airport", with their new terminal building and near-future railway connection.

Airbus330lover · Post by **Airbus330lover** » 22 Aug 2007, 23:37

New airport Ok
Railway connection, not for 2008

regi · Post by **regi** » 22 Aug 2007, 23:49

to FLY4HOURS.BE
yes, in June 2007 I did especially drive 40 km further to Eindhoven because I utterly refused to use Charleroi airport again .

Eindhoven is such a big difference. Cheaper parking, clean and fresh airport, better food and beverages.

[Political statements removed - See forum rules]

Airbus330lover · Post by **Airbus330lover** » 22 Aug 2007, 23:58

regi wrote:to FLY4HOURS.BE
yes, in June 2007 I did especially drive 40 km further to Eindhoven because I utterly refused to use Charleroi airport again .

Eindhoven is such a big difference. Cheaper parking, clean and fresh airport, better food and beverages.

[political statements removed]
There is no doubt that CRL is very heavy politicised.

totally true.
Solution : FR leaves CRL, politicians leaves to the jail....it's on the move for tne moment !!!
Other airlines comes to CRL, and i'm sure we can find worling people in Charleroi.
If you keep politicians and some crazy syndicalists far enough form the region, we have chance

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 22 Aug 2007, 23:58

There is no doubt that CRL is very heavy politicised.

Agree, but is it a weakness or a strength in the actual context?

Now you can say I was stupid to drive further, but for me Charleroi is like enemy territory. I hate it.

How about yourself? Aren't you politicised too?

Does the average traveller even care about who leads the airport?

Airbus330lover · Post by **Airbus330lover** » 23 Aug 2007, 00:01

FLY4HOURS.BE wrote:
There is no doubt that CRL is very heavy politicised.
Agree, but is it a weakness or a strength in the actual context?

In actual context with all the "affaires" in Charleroi and the problems to compose a federal government, it's a weakness (IMO)

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 23 Aug 2007, 00:14

Let's see how it works out. It wouldn t surprise me if by Friday, the talks would be over. Ryanair can't afford to lose too much time with their bookings.

The advantage of having politics involved is that politicians can live without the revenue of Ryanair-generated airport taxes.

The Belgian government would be more than happy if all those Ryanair passengers would fly with Belgian carriers instead: €€€€€

I think that this would turn to be an advantage in the negociations...

My 2 cents