B.flex B.Light

Air Key West · Post by **Air Key West** » 13 Aug 2007, 21:17

LX-LGX, in your third reaction you seem to imply I don't listen to Belgian radio or watch Belgian TV, nor read the newspapers. It is true I seldom watch the news on TV because I'm usually busy doing other things, but I read the international and national press (in both languages) practically everyday, and I happen to know a few things in terms of communication as I have been trained, inter alia, in communication and communication analysis.

(message edited upon request)

Indeed, I telephoned once to Customer Relations, was connected to the head of the department, a young and shy lady who did not seem to have a lot of experience in terms of Customer Relations. ANd she was Customer Relations Manager !

Ducatibiker · Post by **Ducatibiker** » 13 Aug 2007, 21:28

The potential strike would have been for the first day of operation of Brussels Airlines with that name. B.flex/B.light was announced way before and was explained on the web site and in the press. Management never makes a bad decison but
-sabotage
-staff is negative
-customer do not understand
-to concept needs further marketing/promotion
-need time
There is enough evidence not only in this forum but in several other topics as well...that the concept does not work.

Air Key West · Post by **Air Key West** » 13 Aug 2007, 21:50

LG-LGX : another example of a major communication mistake ? Let's go right to the very top. We should, of course, be grateful to Mr Davignon that he gathered on his own the money necessary to launch snba thanks to his contacts in the Belgian business community. Sincerely thank you, Mr Davignon (no irony here).
Mr Davignon is certainly a fine financial expert, but he does not know the airline industry (does he know his own airline ?). On the day B.Air was launched he said to the media : We are low cost and our fares will be all in and transparent.
ALL WRONG.
B.Air is not a low cost carrier (LCC) because :
- LCCs (not exclusively) but mainly operate to and from secondary airport (b.air operates to and from major airports)
- LCCs often get regional subsidies (which b.air doe not get) ;
- LCCs do not have to classes of cabin ;
- LCC's do not have code share flights ;
- LCCs do not intercontinental flights which connect with their regional flights ;
- LCCs do not let you do a through check in when you have two consecutive flights with them (they do not know the concept of connecting flights) ;

As to the "all in transparent" fares announced by the President of the Board of Directors (Conseil d'Administration / Raad van Bestuur), only promotional fares are "all in". If you look for a fare on b.air's web site through their fare search engine, the first fares you will see are fares without real taxes, fake taxes (which are revenue for the airline instead) and without the handling fee (you have to pay because YOU do all the booking work instead of the airline - I know this has become common practice throughout the industry, not only at b.air). Only when you check the small figures on the bottom right hand corner of the web page will you find out what the total fare is. So, the first fares you get to see are not "all in". And the fares are not transparent since under taxes you find real taxes on "non" taxes (see today's articles in Le Soir and De Standaard).
If the President of the Board of Directors and managers at b.air make such communication mistakes (it cannot be they are made on purpose, or are they ?) then there is something wrong with communication with the outside world.

Air Key West · Post by **Air Key West** » 13 Aug 2007, 22:00

Yes Ducatibiker, there is ample evidence on this forum and in the press (L'Echo) that the new concept does not work.
Or why are some passengers so upset or confused ? A tentative answer :
When you buy a b.flex ticket :
- you get separate check in desks at the airport (like in Business class) ;
- you get a seat at the front of the plane (as in Business class) ;
- when the Fast Lane is open, you get priority security check at BRU, something usually reservered for Business class passengers )
in other words, b.air rolls out the red carpet for you on the ground, before you embark.
Once you are on board the plane, they give you a cold shower with their unacceptable catering concept.
So, maybe this is why so many people are disappointed and /or confused.
For the same fare : first the red carpet, then the cold shower. Not very clever psychologically. However, it is true b.air never said b.flex was Business class, one has to be fair in this regard. But at the airport they start by giving you the Business class treatment, so you expect also on the plane. Wrong. It was to good to be true.

Telspace · Post by **Telspace** » 13 Aug 2007, 22:20

I never flew B.Air, because I am a StarAlliance member,but read some comments on :
http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/snbrussels.htm

blackhawk · Post by **blackhawk** » 13 Aug 2007, 22:33

Telspace wrote:I never flew B.Air, because I am a StarAlliance member,but read some comments on :
http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/snbrussels.htm

Once, SN Brussels Airlines was a 4 star airliner .... Now it seems it's heading to a two star rating.

Air Key West · Post by **Air Key West** » 13 Aug 2007, 22:35

Yes, Telspace, I know the passengers comments on www.airlinequality.com. They are interesting for all airlines.

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 15 Aug 2007, 10:46

I once checked for a last-minute departure to Italy.
B'Light was 450€ and B'flex 360€...
When I first took the Thalys in 1st class I thought that B'Flex was somehow inspired by the Thalys formula: Cheap meal and a commercial smile for people who pay more in compenation of the very high price...

What is the best?

And indeed, the planes are very old...

I don't know, but what about a superb system which is to give the full flexibility for all B'Light tickets at a fair rebooking charge depending on the wished flight's loadfactor?
(A bit like in the SN times)
That would clearly differenciate it from their competition such as Easyjet.

Brussels Airines also doesn't offer good last-minutes. They'd rather sell one or no tickets at 500€ rather than giving the last 10 seats at a good price. The last 20 seats on any short-haul are sold for at least 300€...

Air Key West · Post by **Air Key West** » 15 Aug 2007, 23:09

It would be nice and interesting to know why my my post of Aug 13 9:17 pm was edited (censored) upon (whose ?) request. Anyone any idea ? Webmaster ?

earthman · Post by **earthman** » 16 Aug 2007, 00:34

Perhaps it's time someone grabbed the Sabena name and started a new, proper airline with it.

LX-LGX · Post by **LX-LGX** » 16 Aug 2007, 01:14

earthman wrote:Perhaps it's time someone grabbed the Sabena name and started a new, proper airline with it.

1. You can make an offer to Sabena's liquidators if you want to buy the trade name "Sabena" (same for the domain name sabena.be: that's owned by Sabena in Bankruptcy).

2. Ask 100 Belgians what their first thought is when they hear "Sabena". My guess:
80 % will say "they went bankrupt"
10 % will say "strike"
5% will say "bodemloze put / spoiled taxpayers money / argent perdu"
4 % will say "they've been replaced by (SN) Brussels Airlines"
1 % will say "love it" (these are ... yes)

3. Brussels Airlines is a "proper airline", so you don't have put "proper" in bold, meaning it isn't.

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 16 Aug 2007, 04:04

Perhaps it's time someone grabbed the Sabena name and started a new, proper airline with it.

I fully agree. I have seen some hope in this airline before but it has vanished after a few trips with them.

OFF TOPIC:

5% will say "bodemloze put / spoiled taxpayers money / argent perdu"

I m not sure if this is part of your opinion but I d like to comment. Many people have gone through "disoccupation" or working for foreign airlines while living in Belgium because of the bankruptcy. I'm not sure about the numbers but Sabena was Belgium's biggest direct and undirect employer in the nineties.
More than 30000 people were working for and around this airline. It even managed to make profit sometimes. Having all these people working for Sabena saved the country alot of money that now they need to pay to disoccupied people...

This is what the gov. pays now because of the lost positions:
20000 people x 15000€ yearly disoccupation money = 300 000 000€!!

This is what the gov. received in taxes then:
30000 people x 8000€ average revenue taxes = 240 000 000€!!

If the gov had kept Sabena alive they would have saved 540 000 000€ in taxes every year if we suppose that there was no profit nor loss...

Airbus330lover · Post by **Airbus330lover** » 16 Aug 2007, 08:11

FLY4HOURS.BE wrote:If the gov had kept Sabena alive they would have saved 540 000 000€ in taxes every year if we suppose that there was no profit nor loss...

You seems to foregt the european rules !!!

Ducatibiker · Post by **Ducatibiker** » 16 Aug 2007, 09:15

FLY4HOURS.BE wrote: When I first took the Thalys in 1st class I thought that B'Flex was somehow inspired by the Thalys formula: Cheap meal and a commercial smile for people who pay more in compenation of the very high price...

THALYS
Thalys and TGV have both all kinds of prices in their premium cabin/First Class AND
-newspaper at the entrance of the compartment
-cold dish including salmon
-Spanish wine of superior quality

FLEXIBILITY
b.flex gives you the freedom to change to another flight...there is only one flight BRU-CDG per day. OK you might say that CDG is a bad example..Let's take Munich...if are booked on the 0705 to BRU, the only option is to change to ...18:20 to BRU !

C Fare before gave you the ability to change airlines as well in C cabin.
If you did not want to wait till 18:20, you could take a Lufthansa flight to Brussels.

eurofighter · Post by **eurofighter** » 16 Aug 2007, 11:34

Airbus330lover wrote:
FLY4HOURS.BE wrote:If the gov had kept Sabena alive they would have saved 540 000 000€ in taxes every year if we suppose that there was no profit nor loss...
You seems to foregt the european rules !!!

OFF TOPIC

Forget the European competition rules (even though they usually are quite sensible

, but in today's economy and globalised world there is no sense whatsoever to keep an airline afloat with tax payers money.

It is factual knowledge that Sabena in it's 80 years history at best has only had a few years where it really made a net profit. It was able to continue operating by handsome hand outs from the Belgian government i.e. all those in Belgium that pay taxes.

The argument that would Sabena have been kept alive, there would be less social benefits to pay to the unemployed... therefore subsidising could be justified.

First of all, many found another job - there is a life outside aviation for many of them, unfortunately not all
Secondly, all the government debt (still more than 80% of GDP) that amongst other reasons was caused by hand outs to Sabena could have been substantially lower - which could have provided better public services and/or lower taxes... giving the private sector some air to breath

ON TOPIC:

Can't we organise a meeting in the Brussels Airlines lounge to discuss the benefits and non-benefits of b flex and b light over a nice drink?
8)

Airbus330lover · Post by **Airbus330lover** » 16 Aug 2007, 11:37

eurofighter wrote:Can't we organise a meeting in the Brussels Airlines lounge to discuss the benefits and non-benefits of b flex and b light over a nice drink?
8)

Very good idea .....care of the microphones in the lounge..

Ducatibiker · Post by **Ducatibiker** » 16 Aug 2007, 12:13

Very good suggestion ! I am flying on Aug 27 will be there at 8 am.

eurofighter · Post by **eurofighter** » 16 Aug 2007, 12:16

I am departing Brussels twice next week:

Wednesday 22 August from the A terminal (to Berlin) - will be there in the early evening around 18h00 (in b light, for work, have to save some budget)
Thursday 24 August from the B terminal (to Krakow) - will be there in the morning around 08h00 (in b flex, paid for by privilege miles, for private travel

Air Key West · Post by **Air Key West** » 16 Aug 2007, 21:54

yes, beware of microphones in b.air's lounge as one has to beware of b.air's eyes on this forum

eurofighter · Post by **eurofighter** » 16 Aug 2007, 22:32

Air Key West wrote:yes, beware of microphones in b.air's lounge as one has to beware of b.air's eyes on this forum

Oops probably they can identify me by checking their flight reservations.

I am (not yet) paranoid. Constructive discussion can lead to improvement. Anyway, if anyone might be in the lounge one of those two days, i'm ready for a drink to talk about aviation (and a coffee on the Friday morning).