Ryanair leaving Ostend!

[Comet]

Erwin - my point again - if this route is so successful with British tourists, why is it being withdrawn?? I also said that it has not been established long enough to say it has had a massive effect on the number of tourists visiting the area (again, if this is the case, why is it to be axed?) Also, if this route was successful, why would such a wonderful airline like Ryanair withdraw it?

It obviously has not been a success, you cannot argue with that conclusion!!

If VLM are so backward - why are their flights between LCY and BRU being increased whilst FR are withdrawing routes between England and Belgium? Believe me, VLM flights do get full, I've never been on one with an empty seat, so people do like them and some obviously prefer to fly to Belgium with them than FR (or indeed SN).

I never said I had spoken to every British tourist in Brugge, but the ones I've encountered and spoken to in the hotels I've stayed in have arrived in Belgium on the ferry, on SN or on BA or BD, I've not spoken to anyone who has flown in on FR. I've also seen many British people boarding trains in Brugge to catch trains to Brussels Airport, so obviously they didn't fly in with FR either. Tourists I have seen leaving the trains at Ostend have headed for the ferry terminal, not the airport.

[A318]

It's normal that Airlines withdraw a flight if it is not succesful enough.
I didn't say they were succesfull on that stretch, I only said there were for sure british tourists flying with Ryanair to Belgium, why should there be so many tourists otherwise flying from CRL to STN and DUB???
Anyway I know you are not atracked to Ryanair since they are not VLM, so be it, but I think you are thief from your own wallet when you pay 3 double the price for a flight, only for a drink and a sandwich. Even my collegues (and we can all fly on standby tickets) prefer to go booked on LCC then flying standby with our own airline.
Most of the time the ticket is even cheaper with the LCC (Ryanair, Easyjet, Virgin and Jet2) then with a standby ticket from our own airline and most important, with the LCC you have a booked flight and on standby you just have to be lucky to have a seat available.
So if the airline personel even prefer to fly with a LCC I can imagine a lot customers prefer that too, accept the business passenger who needs a flight on time for business, that is the average customer for VLM and also for KLM who is also flying from Rotterdam to London.
The leisure traveller is using more and more LCC's and this is already seen in numbers of tourism in europe.

Erwin

[BlackEyedB747]

hello,

it wasn't succesful
the loadfactor was many times 60 a 70 % butt ryanair wants 80 %

so it was succesful

Grtz,

Nico

[Comet]

Part of the thing with Ryanair is the out of the way airports they tend to use in Europe. A major percentage of VLM passengers between London and Belgium are business travellers. They prefer to fly into the more centrally located London City airport (where they can be off the aircraft and into a taxi within five minutes - no I'm not making that up!) than the out of the way Stansted. VLM's market between the UK and Belgium is aimed entirely at commuters and not tourists, they have very few seats available on their flights at the discounted tourist rate.

The flights I take are part of a package, I don't buy them seperately to my accommodation, and my tour operator only offers VLM, BA, BD or SN. I would rather book flights with accommodation and then I know it's all sorted, rather than trying to get flights seperate and finding I might not be able to get the timings I want.

I also like to fly into Brussels when I go to Belgium! If I were going to fly with a low cost carrier I would probably look at EasyJet, for the very reason that I stated earlier, Ryanair use such out of the way airports, and EasyJet use more major ones (FR use Beauvais for Paris and EasyJet use CDG). Or I would go with Virgin Express.

[OO-VEX]

Hello,

Ostend, as a major ferry port for UK routes, would have to see extremely cheap air fares for an air route from the UK to be successful. The ferries to Ostend are well established and often offer the advantage of being able to take the car for those who like that sort of thing. The Sea Cat high speed ferry is cheap and very popular for those who have no car and just go and buy a ticket and board.

Ostend is not a major ferry port for UK routes as Hoverspeed is no longer operating the Seacat between Dover and Ostend. So it is obvious that Ostend & Bruges will see less tourists as there is no air or sea link between the Belgian region and the UK. Offcourse a lot of tourists will fly to BRU, but Ryanair was bringing in some extra tourists which were just attracted by the low fares.

OO-VEX

[EBAW_flyer]

Comet, I know you know Belgian tourism better than us Belgians, but let's face it, the RYR pax are not, I repeat, are NOT going to change to VLM from Brussels. With RYR, they say: "oh, nice, Bruges, well, that's cheap, let's do that" and not "oooh, I only want to go to Bruges, who flies there?". Soooo if ryanair goes, a part of the tourism goes. AND THAT'S A FACT.

[A318]

Comet, I know you know Belgian tourism better than us Belgians, but let's face it, the RYR pax are not, I repeat, are NOT going to change to VLM from Brussels. With RYR, they say: "oh, nice, Bruges, well, that's cheap, let's do that" and not "oooh, I only want to go to Bruges, who flies there?". Soooo if ryanair goes, a part of the tourism goes. AND THAT'S A FACT.

That's totally correct, it is a different passenger, the passenger that maybe never flew before due to the prices.
Comet I understand you when you say the airports RYR use are to far away for the business traveler, I agree totally but that is not important for the average RYR passenger.
Besides that Ryanair always offers a transfer by bus to the city of destination for a very low price. For example in Rome from Ciampino to Termini central station (which is the center of Rome) cost you 6 Euro!!!
So also that part is aranges and for a weekend traveler like me and my wife no problem at all, we fly a lot and save a lot of money when we fly in Europe. Ofcourse our intercontinental flights are always done by the major airlines but for europe I am very happy with the low cost carriers. The reason I talk about Ryanair is because I have experience with them and not with the others (yet). In January I will fly to Edinburgh with Easyjet and after that flight I will give my honest opinion about Easyjet comparing them with Ryanair.

Greetz,

Erwin

[EBOS87]

EBAW-flyer, you are completely right. There will be less tourists in Ostend and Bruges, but most tourists will stay coming to Ostend/Bruges by bus
(Dover->Calais->Ostend/Bruges). It's really a pitty to see disappear everything out of Ostend: RMT, international trains, Hoverspeed and now Ryanair. Perhaps VLM can start a connection from OST to LCY because there are in my region also a lot of business passengers. I think there is a market and perhaps Mr. Bossuyt will give reduced (-30%) landing rights....

[OO-SBZ]

Political game Erwin? Why does the taxpayer have to pay for the people leaving from CRL?

For the rest: you see it too extreme, Louise. Does a Ryanair 737 spoil your sight?
Ostend has lost it's only link with the UK, and actually it's only scheduled passenger carrier.

Frederic

Well... well... As a Ryanair-flying tax payer, I don't mind too much

Some people (I'm not going to name) tend to judge 'low-cost' carriers as Ryanair from their rather reactionary point of view. In their opinion aviation should be something for the happy-few whereas the less-happy-many (my coinage!) could just watch. Did they read anything serious on lc aviation (such as the good book by Calder)? Have they ever flown 'low-frill'?

I don't laugh at their quickly spent €€€s (or $$$$$s or ££££s) on other carriers since I am tolerant. Moreover, I don't use terms such as 'rubbish' or other derivatives. As a result, I expect the same from them!



Regards

BeN
just back from CRL-STN-CRL (report to be published asap)
eagerly waiting for 15/12 CRL-DUB-DUB

[BlackEyedB747]

hello,

i found this in a newspaper
if anyone could translate it please my english is not so good

Luchthavenmanager Gino Verpauwen

Ondanks de ontgoocheling is er geen ruzie met ryanair
volgens topman Michael Cawley bestaat de kans dat ryanair in de toekomst een gelijkaardige route vanuit oostende opstart maar daar wachten we niet op ik zal opnieuw contact opnemne met een tiental Maatschappijen in Engeland die eerder niet wilden komen omwille van de aanwezigheid van ryanair misschien hebben ze nu wel interesse

Grtz,

Nico

ps: ryanair kills airports they are not helping them

Source : het laatste nieuws

[airDD]

Well, the truth is that Ryanair is expanding so fast that they need the plane to fly somewhere else where it can make more money.
I figured that the OST flight would be hard to maintain during the winter season.. a RJ would be a better fit...and I do remember seeing a Buzz Avro flying into OST when I was in OST last summer.

Anyway, there is no real future for OST anymore (unless it is renamed Brussels West )

BRU has so much capacity left that it is ridiculous to expand regional airports (aren't they building a brand new terminal in CRL for Ryanair).

BRU should sell the old terminal building to FR when the EU closes than the CRL-FR deal

airDD

[Comet]

Comet, I know you know Belgian tourism better than us Belgians, but let's face it, the RYR pax are not, I repeat, are NOT going to change to VLM from Brussels. With RYR, they say: "oh, nice, Bruges, well, that's cheap, let's do that" and not "oooh, I only want to go to Bruges, who flies there?". Soooo if ryanair goes, a part of the tourism goes. AND THAT'S A FACT.

How long have tourists been visiting Belgium and Brugge? And how long have Ryanair been flying into Ostend?? Like I say, it can't have been such a successful route or it wouldn't have been withdrawn, would it?

And I never said that VLM was a tourits airline. If you read what I had posted instead of making assumptions about me, then you would know that I said that VLM are not a tourist-orientated carrier!

Brugge was busy with tourists before FR flew into Ostend, and I will see how busy it is next year, when I go to Brugge flying in on SN Brussels!!! I can't imagine that the place will be dead because Ryanair have stopped the Ostend service, which is what you are implying will happen!!!

[EBAW_flyer]

No, it won't be dead, BUT the EXTRA tourists that RYR brought won't go by bus or plane (with SNBA or VLM) so you will allways loose some tourism (that was all that I was saying ). The liquidation is not a good thing, it never is, nowhere in the world. Can you give me ONE example where they ceased flight to a region and after that didn't loose some part of the touristic revenues? I know YOU will fly with SNBA or VLM, but some of the people don't like paying that much (and let's face it, it costs much more, not only the flight, but also the extra transportation costs, flight alone: RYR 40 euros, VLM 160 euros and SNBA 240 euros!!!!), and loosing the extra time (because EBBR is still more than 3 times the distance than EBOS-Bruges).

[A318]

Thanks for the support OO-SBZ I am happy to see there are more people honest to their wallet
Funny thing is that there is another reason behind the withdraw from Ostend byRyanair and not the amount of pax.
Not so long ago I read an article (don't know where anymore) about the loadfactor from different airlines where they start to make profit.
With a major carrier the loadfactor should be around 80%, Easyjet only needs a loadfactor from 67% to make profit and Ryanair starts making profit with a loadfactor from 57% !!!!!
That was an amazing loadfactor ofcourse but all was carefully calculated and checked. So if Ryanair still makes profit with a loadfactor from 57% why did they withdraw from Ostend with a loadfactor from 60 to 70%????
Not because they were losing money, I think they just needed the aircraft on another stretch with a higher loadfactor and ofcourse it's logical that you go for the most attractive routes in your schedule.
That's the main target from a low cost carrier, making money to buy more planes.

Greetz,

Erwin

[BlackEyedB747]

hello,

i found this in a newspaper
if anyone could translate it please my english is not so good

Luchthavenmanager Gino Verpauwen

Ondanks de ontgoocheling is er geen ruzie met ryanair
volgens topman Michael Cawley bestaat de kans dat ryanair in de toekomst een gelijkaardige route vanuit oostende opstart maar daar wachten we niet op ik zal opnieuw contact opnemne met een tiental Maatschappijen in Engeland die eerder niet wilden komen omwille van de aanwezigheid van ryanair misschien hebben ze nu wel interesse

Grtz,

Nico

ps: ryanair kills airports they are not helping them

Source : het laatste nieuws

has anyone reed my reply or is it just not important enough we are talking about aviation not about tourism

Grtz

[Comet]

As for the tourist numbers - I suggest you look through a travel brochure published by a UK tour operator featuring Brugge and Ostend, and then tell me how many of these brochures feature flights by Ryanair. You won't find one!! The UK tour operators who offer holidays to Belgium use - the Eurostar, the Eurotunnel Shuttle train for cars, the ferry, BA, BD, SN and VG.

That is something you cannot argue with!!! I look through many brochures (every one I find) to get a decent holiday package for Belgium so I do know what I am talking about.

Also, many tourists to Brugge are Japanese and American - do they all come in by Ryanair? As I also said, FR is only any good for those in the south east of England. I live in the north east, I am not going to travel to Stansted when I can fly from Manchester on SN. What about people in Scotland? Do you think they will go all the way to the south of England, costing hell of alot in train fares, just to fly with Ryanair? No, they will fly from Scottish airports or the north of England.

The Brugge tourist industry did not depend on the FR services to and from Ostend!

[A318]

hello,
i found this in a newspaper
if anyone could translate it please my english is not so good

Luchthavenmanager Gino Verpauwen

Ondanks de ontgoocheling is er geen ruzie met ryanair
volgens topman Michael Cawley bestaat de kans dat ryanair in de toekomst een gelijkaardige route vanuit oostende opstart maar daar wachten we niet op ik zal opnieuw contact opnemne met een tiental Maatschappijen in Engeland die eerder niet wilden komen omwille van de aanwezigheid van ryanair misschien hebben ze nu wel interesse

Ostend Airport manager Gino Verpauwen

Besides the "not so nice notice" there is no fight with Ryanair, top man Michael Cawley says there is a chance that in the future there will be a start-up again from a similar route, but we are not going to wait for it. I am going to contact around 10 other airlines in the UK that first didn't want to fly to Ostend due to the presence of Ryanair. Maybe now their interest is changed.

Greetz,

Erwin

[A318]

As for the tourist numbers - I suggest you look through a travel brochure published by a UK tour operator featuring Brugge and Ostend, and then tell me how many of these brochures feature flights by Ryanair. You won't find one!! The UK tour operators who offer holidays to Belgium use - the Eurostar, the Eurotunnel Shuttle train for cars, the ferry, BA, BD, SN and VG.

That is something you cannot argue with!!! I look through many brochures (every one I find) to get a decent holiday package for Belgium so I do know what I am talking about.

Also, many tourists to Brugge are Japanese and American - do they all come in by Ryanair? As I also said, FR is only any good for those in the south east of England. I live in the north east, I am not going to travel to Stansted when I can fly from Manchester on SN. What about people in Scotland? Do you think they will go all the way to the south of England, costing hell of alot in train fares, just to fly with Ryanair? No, they will fly from Scottish airports or the north of England.

The Brugge tourist industry did not depend on the FR services to and from Ostend!

Comet, Ryanair is not an airline for tourists from the US and Japan but for the leisure traveller inside europe.
This are the kind of travellers that book a ticket with Ryanair, Easyjet or Virgin-express and search on the internet for a nice hotel for 2 or 3 nights for example on our website (since we have the lowest prices ).
But don't forget the backpackers from the US and South America, they fly with a mojor carrier to Europe, go to a internet cafe and book the trips inside europe with low cost carriers since those prices are often cheaper then a train ticket. So you are right about the tourists that travel on leech (like the huge groups of Japanese with those lovely coloured flags) but you forget a huge part of "low cost" tourists that do use the low cost carriers. Thanks to those tourists I can run a little business on internet.

Greetz,

Erwin

[Comet]

The implications in this thread are that Brugge will not be able to handle the massive drop in tourists owing to the loss of the STN-OST service, and I say that is a load of :pukey:

Brugge was busy before that service (how long did it operate again - less than 12 months wasn't it??) and it will be busy again this year, it did not depend on that flight for its income!

What about people from the Continent of Europe who visited Brugge? They wouldn't have gone all the way to STN to fly on FR. However successful FR might be on other routes, and how they might fill their aircraft on other routes is not the issue in this thread, it is the fact that they are leaving OST that is the main point, and the ridiculous notion that it will destroy the Belgian tourist economy and the Brugge tourist trade!

[A318]

The implications in this thread are that Brugge will not be able to handle the massive drop in tourists owing to the loss of the STN-OST service, and I say that is a load of :pukey:

Brugge was busy before that service (how long did it operate again - less than 12 months wasn't it??) and it will be busy again this year, it did not depend on that flight for its income!

What about people from the Continent of Europe who visited Brugge? They wouldn't have gone all the way to STN to fly on FR. However successful FR might be on other routes, and how they might fill their aircraft on other routes is not the issue in this thread, it is the fact that they are leaving OST that is the main point, and the ridiculous notion that it will destroy the Belgian tourist economy and the Brugge tourist trade!

Nobody said that, this are your words.
People only said that this is bad notice for Ostend airport since the only scheduled airline they have did leave Ostend and ofcourse that is not good also not for the tourism over there.
But nobody said the whole tourist industry will suffer now due to the leave of RYR.
Reading and understanding are two different things!

Erwin