Again troubles for 2 bru-air A330

apu-on · Post by **apu-on** » 27 Jul 2007, 17:44

Be notified that:
One A330 stuck in ABJ since last night.
One A330 (the charter one) stuck in Faro.

One full rotation Monrovia-Dakar cancelled.
Hundreds of passengers stranded.

it's not going to improve with such records. That's what happens when you take airplanes others don't want to fly with.

Homo Aeroportus · Post by **Homo Aeroportus** » 27 Jul 2007, 22:01

Hi APU-On

This being your first post I don't know if you want to be informative or just spit on Bru Air.

In both cases, you can add that tomorrow the SN3733 BRU-AGP is delayed from 06:00 to 13:00 with return at 20:10 iso 12:40.

Guess it means that those working on bringing the bird back from FAO believe they'll make by noon tomorrow.

Anuone news, I mean info, on what happened in BJL?
Tks.

LX-LGX · Post by **LX-LGX** » 27 Jul 2007, 22:02

One of the SN flights to/from Malaga on Saturday is with a A330:

SN3733 = Brussels-Malaga, ETD 06h00, dep delayed till 13h00

SN3734 = Malaga-Brussels, ETA 12h40, arr delayed till 20h10

(source: brusselsairport.be - arrivals and departures)

Homo Aeroportus · Post by **Homo Aeroportus** » 27 Jul 2007, 22:12

Gotcha by 1 minute LX.

EBBR_Based · Post by **EBBR_Based** » 27 Jul 2007, 22:36

apu-on wrote:it's not going to improve with such records. That's what happens when you take airplanes others don't want to fly with.

Some people only need one posting to show their lack of credibility... congrats with your first message at luchtzak.be

The performance of SN's A333s is not bad at all. With only 3 aircraft scheduled for African operations, a delay is very 'visible' of course as Brussels Airlines' longhaul operation is not big enough to warrant the availability of spare aircraft (except for Tuesdays and Wednesdays, when a maintenance day is planned according to their timetable).

flyavro · Post by **flyavro** » 27 Jul 2007, 23:47

this is funny.

Are you saying BA doesn't have a lot of problems with it's A330 fleet?

Then I guess we only get all these internal communication mails about problems on longhaul for fun.

I know they don't have any spare aircraft (that would be trowing money out of the windows) but don't come claiming that the fourth aircraft is in good shape. The first three weren't really good to begin with after having flown short French interiour hops, but this ex-air madrid is a real beauty. Guess why it stood on the tarmac for so long before being brought online. Cheap chinese spare parts anyone?

Oh yeah and I am really dissapointed that once again our long haul sector has taken a hit because that's the only thing keeping us flying for the moment.

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 27 Jul 2007, 23:47

EBBR_Based wrote:
apu-on wrote:it's not going to improve with such records. That's what happens when you take airplanes others don't want to fly with.
Some people only need one posting to show their lack of credibility... congrats with your first message at luchtzak.be
The performance of SN's A333s is not bad at all. With only 3 aircraft scheduled for African operations, a delay is very 'visible' of course as Brussels Airlines' longhaul operation is not big enough to warrant the availability of spare aircraft (except for Tuesdays and Wednesdays, when a maintenance day is planned according to their timetable).

With only 3 aircraft scheduled for African operations an airline indeed shows lack of credibility...
All the words were there, only the sequence had to be adjusted...

SabenaForever · Post by **SabenaForever** » 28 Jul 2007, 00:15

Please people, stop attacking Bru air with those stupid facts...
When Bru air has a delay, some people on this forum are the first to post it! Look at KLM, BA, Air France, Lufthansa, etc... they have delays al the time...

LX-LGX · Post by **LX-LGX** » 28 Jul 2007, 01:30

SabenaForever wrote:Please people, stop attacking Bru air with those stupid facts... When Bru air has a delay, some people on this forum are the first to post it! Look at KLM, BA, Air France, Lufthansa, etc... they have delays all the time.

Agree if you mean remarks like "... that's what happens when you take airplanes others don't want to fly with...".

But with all respect: most information about delays here is only given when it's an abnormal long delay. And information about delays is given to inform and to find out from others about the solutions Brussels Airlines has found.

Example: when Brussels Airlines has an AOG somewhere in Africa, usually a 319 is sent to Africa. But seems not this time?

Stij · Post by **Stij** » 28 Jul 2007, 10:07

I'm not against Bru Air or against any airliner, but last saturday, the same AGP flight was delayed by more then 5 hours as well... and I was on it!

The flightcare staff was friendly and even gave the number of their office. When Iasked for the meal vouchers they said they were waiting for a confirmation to do so from Bru Air in Brussels. They promised to announce it over the public speaker system when they would be available. Of course this was never announced... but they were available. I guess some money was saved in not announcing it. Anyhow, I got my 8 €

The crew did their best to keep the delay under the magical limit of 5 hours, even by closing the doors when they were still loading containers into the belly at 4:55 delay. Unfortunatly a container got stuck and the copilot and the captain had to have a look at it so the bridge was connected again and our delay incresed with 35 minutes to 5:30.

Bummer, now I want my money back!!!!!

Don't get me wrong, it's noting against Bru Air, I think all airliners handle the passengers rights this way.

Cheers,

Stij

LX-LGX · Post by **LX-LGX** » 28 Jul 2007, 10:56

Homo Aeroportus wrote: In both cases, you can add that tomorrow the SN3733 BRU-AGP is delayed from 06:00 to 13:00 with return at 20:10 iso 12:40.

delayed ETD, 13h00, has been amended into 13h30.
Plane has left at 14h02.

delayed ETA, 20h40, has been amended from 20h10 into ... 20h47.
New and correct ETA now is 21h18.

- - -

(red = edited at 19h20)

JAFflyer · Post by **JAFflyer** » 28 Jul 2007, 11:03

Kinda funny, when someone posts this, he gets attacked for "attacking" BruAir, but when OOTUC has a problem everyone starts bashing on the jetairfly and it's 767. Just an observation...
Think about it, where did we see it as a headliner that 2 330's are stuck...if it wasn't for luchtzak.be no outsider would have known...

EBBR_Based · Post by **EBBR_Based** » 28 Jul 2007, 11:41

flyavro wrote:Are you saying BA doesn't have a lot of problems with it's A330 fleet?

Then I guess we only get all these internal communication mails about problems on longhaul for fun.

I don't know what's posted in your internal comms, but you might know that it is always the same problem that pops up on this particular A333. Solve this problem, and you'll significantly reduce the number of delays/cancellations on flights operated by this aircraft.

JAFFlyer wrote:Kinda funny, when someone posts this, he gets attacked for "attacking" BruAir, but when OOTUC has a problem everyone starts bashing on the jetairfly and it's 767. Just an observation...

No hard feelings, JAFFlyer. Those who are in the aviation business know that things like this happen. For JAF it's even worse, because an AOG of 'your' TUC results very fast in a delay of 24hrs, lasting for days as this aircraft is planned quite tightly in the busy periods. SN still has some back-up possibilities (by maintenance days and A319s in the past, and currently by maintenance days and OO-SFW).

I wouldn't say that people tend to bash JAF more than SN, and I wouldn't be upset either about the comments they make. Assuming you work for JAF, you most probably know the reason behind cancellations and other operational irregularities. If I'd be you, I'd just laugh with some of the comments posted over here instead of taking them personally.

correctair · Post by **correctair** » 28 Jul 2007, 11:48

In the, naive, hope that people want to see the full picture iso going for easy bashing game, let me try this final attempt.

If an aircraft goes technical during a topweekend, every airline has problems as alternative (wetlease, charter, ...) or fall back solutions (rebook, ...) are difficult to find ...

If a longhaul aircraft goes technical in Africa you immediately have long delays as the repair material is not available and the aircraft can't be dispatched easily...

B.Air has rerouted AFR pax via Madrid and France, all pax have received 700 Euro compensation for the delay.

If you really want to compare B.Air with other airlines, you just analyse one reliable source: th AEA official Statistics of the European Airlines ops performance 'punctuality, flight reliability). You will see that the results are not bad at all.

And I see that B.air, dear Jetairflyer, is not the only one with problems today. JetAirFly Alicante 6 hrs delay, JetAir Malta 6 hrs delay.

Vinnie-Winnie · Post by **Vinnie-Winnie** » 28 Jul 2007, 12:57

correctair wrote:
B.Air has rerouted AFR pax via Madrid and France, all pax have received 700 Euro compensation for the delay.

€700 per passenger, imagine a 80% load factor, so about 210 passengers, that already will have cost Brussels airlines a neat €147000 just in compensation to passengers!

Re-booking passengers on other flights: I don't know what sort of agreements airlines have between each other in case passengers need to be put on another airline, but imagine that SN had to pay €800 as well! another €147000

Add the cost of ferrying spare parts, new crew, maybe leasing another aircraft and you get the picture... SN is losing a hell of a money which just cannot be recouped in one day like big carriers would do!

So if they had the guts and some common sense, SN would indeed buy new aircraft to decrease the likelihood of events such as these happening!

Andries · Post by **Andries** » 28 Jul 2007, 14:58

EBBR_Based wrote:Those who are in the aviation business know that things like this happen.

You've got a very good point there. I agree 200% !
The ones you usually hear complaining are not in the aviation business.

Greetz,

Andries

airazurxtror · Post by **airazurxtror** » 28 Jul 2007, 16:27

Andries wrote: The ones you usually hear complaining are not in the aviation business.

No, of course - why would those in the aviation business complain ? They get paid for the hours they work, and then they go home. They are the lucky ones, if you ask me.
Those who complain are the hapless passengers, who lose a lot of time and, more often than not, are looked upon as a tiresome lot.
Reminds me of a railway employee I once overheard saying : If only there were no travellers , running the trains would be much more fun !

flyavro · Post by **flyavro** » 28 Jul 2007, 17:25

sorry airazur but I fear that's not correct:

we as crew do not get paid more because we have a delay and we want to go home too. remember that most of the time we're up and working on that plane before you get on board so those are pretty long days for us too.

When I see that people get paid 700euro's then I get reallyscared: where will BA get it's money from? (good for the pax but rather bad for out company)

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 28 Jul 2007, 18:11

Vinnie-Winnie wrote:
correctair wrote:B.Air has rerouted AFR pax via Madrid and France, all pax have received 700 Euro compensation for the delay.
€700 per passenger, imagine a 80% load factor, so about 210 passengers, that already will have cost Brussels airlines a neat €147000 just in compensation to passengers!
Re-booking passengers on other flights: I don't know what sort of agreements airlines have between each other in case passengers need to be put on another airline, but imagine that SN had to pay €800 as well! another €147000.
Add the cost of ferrying spare parts, new crew, maybe leasing another aircraft and you get the picture... SN is losing a hell of a money which just cannot be recouped in one day like big carriers would do!
So if they had the guts and some common sense, SN would indeed buy new aircraft to decrease the likelihood of events such as these happening!

Dear Vinnie-Winnie, Such aircraft fly both aways = North-South, AND South-North. With passengers at both ends... o the North bound passengers might also be entitled to so compensation? In this case, the airline would loose less, if it had less than 80% occupancy.
btw, There is a rerouting agreement, as in involuntary rerouting, but the revenue is lost, at least half of the ticket price.
Also spare part shipment have a special agreement, do not worry too much about that, that ain't the costs.
The real cost is the loss of ... credibility.
Unfortunately they are still called SN. I cannot remember the A330 having so much trouble in the real SN era, and neither did they cause problems in the VG-era.
Where can we find comparative material, to make a more objective image of these troubles?

LX-LGX · Post by **LX-LGX** » 29 Jul 2007, 22:16

details on brusselsairport.be for Monday's flight to Dakar:

ETD 14h00, now announced as delayed 17h30

EQP : A319

flight number: SN1233

Aviation24.be

Again troubles for 2 bru-air A330

Again troubles for 2 bru-air A330

Re: Again troubles for 2 bru-air A330

Re: Again troubles for 2 bru-air A330