Brazilian air crash

CXRules · Post by **CXRules** » 18 Jul 2007, 01:09

News reporting TAM A320 crash at Sao Paulo airport. It is reported that the plane overshot the runnway and crashed into a gas station. More details to come.

CXRules · Post by **CXRules** » 18 Jul 2007, 01:11

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070717/ap_ ... ne_crash_2

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 18 Jul 2007, 01:31

Tam Linhas Aereas Flight JJ 3054 was enroute to Sao Paulo from Porto Alegre.
It indeed burst into flames after landing at Sao Paulo's domestic airport, flames shot into the sky and clouds of black smoke billowed into the air after the Airbus-320 skidded of a runway.
The A320 then traveled across a busy road and slammed into a gas station.

TAM confirmou o acidente com a aeronave da TAM Airbus A320, vôo JJ 3054, que partiu de Porto Alegre, às 17h16, com destino ao aeroporto de Congonhas

The building it slammed in looks like a TAM hangar.
Pictures
Aircraft on fire

Ao Vivo Live Click the arrow and on CNN: Plane crashes at Sao Paulo airport

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 18 Jul 2007, 01:46

There seems also to be a fire @Santos Dumont Airport*
Incêndio atinge aeroporto Santos Dumont

*Santos Dumont Airport (IATA: SDU, ICAO: SBRJ) serves Rio de Janeiro

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 18 Jul 2007, 02:30

Mais informações acesse : www.taminforma.com.br

SOB: 175
155 passengers
6 crew, seis tripulantes
and 14 staff, e 14 funcionários.
200 deads on scene

17R/35L 6,365 1,940 Asphalt
17L/35R 4,708 1,435 Asphalt

Landing @Congonhas Airport....

It seems also 5 TAM staff got trapped in an elevator in the TAM building on fire...

Sao Paulo Aeropor-To, Brazil Historical weather report
Observation time dinsdag 17 juli 2007 18:00 Eastern South America Standard Time
Flight conditions Instrument Meterological Conditions
Winds Wind direction North-Northwest (340°)
Wind speed 4,1 m/s
Visibility 6 km
Present weather light rain
Sky condition Ceiling 300 m broken clouds
Cloud layer broken clouds 300 m
Cloud layer overcast 2.100 m
Temperature 16°C
Dewpoint 14°C
Altimeter 1018 hPa
Derived measurements Relative humidity 88%
Density altitude 55 m

METAR 2007-07-17 21:00 SBSP 172100Z 34008KT 6000 -RA BKN009 OVC070 16/14 Q1018
Station information
Weather station SBSP (Sao Paulo Aeropor-To, Brazil)
Local time dinsdag 17 juli 2007 21:59 Eastern South America Standard Time
Location information Get a map of this place
23° 37' 00" S, 46° 39' 00" W, 245,0 m

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 18 Jul 2007, 03:19

Video:
Landing in the Congonhas Airport - São Paulo - Brazil

David747 · Post by **David747** » 18 Jul 2007, 06:59

The plane skidded off the Runway during takeoff, due to heavy rains. preliminary reports.

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 18 Jul 2007, 08:58

David747 wrote:The plane skidded off the Runway during takeoff, due to heavy rains. preliminary reports.

Tam Linhas Aereas Flight JJ 3054 was enroute to Sao Paulo from Porto Alegre.

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 18 Jul 2007, 09:06

Slick runway or aquaplaning?.
Runway conditions the cause of the disaster?
Other CNN Footage
It looks like the A320 made a jump over the avenida Washington....

Airbus330lover · Post by **Airbus330lover** » 18 Jul 2007, 09:16

SN30952 wrote:Slick runway or aquaplaning?.
Runway conditions the cause of the disaster?

Not only weather conditions, but runway in very bad conditions since 3 years.
Two causes for one result

Homo Aeroportus · Post by **Homo Aeroportus** » 18 Jul 2007, 09:16

Congonhas was built, think in 1936, in what was then a suburb of Sao Paulo.
Now it is engulfed by the city !

I had the opportunity, 25+ years ago, to be in the front office of an Electra landing there. This is like an aircraft carrier amid a sea of buildings and city roads/highways !
The runways are actually at a higher elevation than the surroundings. The ground in front of the thresholds is slanted at 45° and marked with red/white checkerboard.

Conversely, there is zero centimeter of overrun or clearway at the end of the landing RWY. Landing long, fast, and/or skidding on notably poor friction pavement and you are doomed.

Really sad but not the first accident at Congonhas (F100 some 10 years ago at T/O) and most probably not the last.

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 18 Jul 2007, 09:38

Airbus330lover wrote:
SN30952 wrote:Slick runway or aquaplaning?. Runway conditions the cause of the disaster?
Not only weather conditions, but runway in very bad conditions since 3 years.
Two causes for one result

That runway just received a new cover, the length of the runway and poor drainage were risks.
And was the crew asked to expedite their approach?
Fact is that the main runway was under construction recently. Flights were approved for takeoffs and landings last month even though runways lacked standard grooving to provide traction for airplane tires and to facilitate draining of rainwater.

A federal court* in February briefly banned takeoffs and landings of large jets because of safety concerns at the airport.
An appeals court overruled the ban, saying it was too harsh because it would have severe economic implications and that there were not enough safety concerns to prevent the planes from landing and taking off at the airport.

*Three types of jets were banned from Sao Paulo's Congonhas airport because of concerns about the length of the runway.
Judge Ronald Carvalho Filho ruled Fokker 100 jets and two types of Boeing 737 were too large to be accommodated.

In 1996, a TAM Airlines Fokker-100 skidded off the runway at the airport and down a street before erupting in a fireball. The crash killed all 96 people on board and three on the ground. An other version has it this way/: A problem in a thrust reverser caused TAM Flight 402 to crash in São Paulo shortly after take-off, killing 95 and 4 on the ground.

In a Februari 2007 BBC reports it reads:
Federal prosecutors had argued both the length of the runway and poor drainage were risks.
It said that in recent months excess water on the runway had led to some planes skidding off the runway.
"The safety conditions of the runway and the airport as a whole are adequate," a spokeswoman from Brazil's National Agency of Civil Aviation said.
She added the judge's ruling could end up affecting 10,000 passengers per day.
"If the injunction stands, it will cause total chaos," a spokesman for Tam Linhas Aereas, SA, the nation's biggest carrier, said.
On Tuesday morning* heavy rains caused the airport to be closed for an hour.

* that was this Year FEB!
Note: On August 8, 2006, a front door of a TAM flight came off a few minutes after takeoff at the Congonhas/São Paulo International Airport, in São Paulo, Brazil. The cabin had not yet been pressurized and the pilot was able to land back at Congonhas. The door fell approximately 450 meters (1,470 feet) onto the roof of a supermarket, causing no major damage.

Note: TAM, based in Sao Paulo, is Airbus's biggest Latin American client**, and is is controlled by Brazil's Amaro family. The company employs more than 16,000 people and has a fleet of 101 aircraft.

TAM was founded on February 21 1961. At first, the company was named Transportes Aéreos Marília, S.A. (Marília Air Transport) after the pilots' hometown of Marília, São Paulo.
In 1971, Rolim Amaro, a former pilot of TAM who had left and eventually had formed his own air-taxi company, proposed to liquidate his own company and purchase a portion of TAM. At the end of 1972, Amaro sold TAM's entire fleet. Still losing money, he was still unable to make the payments. For a period of time, Amaro went as far as cancelling insurance for his planes, in an attempt to reduce costs. The morning after insurance was reinstated, on September 24 1977, one of TAM's LearJets crashed on approach to Santos Dumont Regional Airport.

In 2000 the airline was renamed TAM Linhas Aereas.
The airline is owned by Amaro family (69%), Bank Garantia Funds (22%) and others (7%). It employed 10,471 staff, before today....
Prior to his death, Amaro often greeted passengers himself on early morning flights at Congonhas, before starting his workday. ( talking of the little je ne sais pas quoi....)

**TAM's Airbusses:
Airbus A319-100 5 138 (0/0/138) Short haul routes To be converted as 144 Y
Airbus A319-100 10 (5 orders) 144 (0/0/144) Short haul routes
Airbus A320-200 8 156 (0/12/144) Medium Haul Routes
Airbus A320-200 10 168 (0/0/168) Short and Medium Haul Routes To be converted as 174 Y
Airbus A320-200 42 (55 orders) 174 (0/0/174) Short and Medium Haul Routes
Airbus A321-200 0 (3 Orders) For Delivery by the second half 2007
Airbus A330-200 5 213 (0/42/171) Medium and Long Haul Routes
Airbus A330-200 5 (10 orders) 212 (7/30/175) Medium and Long Haul Routes
Airbus A340-500[2] 0
(2 orders) For Delivery 2007/2008
Airbus A350-900 0
(10 orders) For delivery in 2012 (estimated)

Post by **sn26567** » 18 Jul 2007, 10:48

SN30952 wrote:
David747 wrote:The plane skidded off the Runway during takeoff, due to heavy rains. preliminary reports.
Tam Linhas Aereas Flight JJ 3054 was enroute to Sao Paulo from Porto Alegre.

Yes, but when the pilot saw he was skidding he tried to take off again.

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 18 Jul 2007, 10:57

My deepest feelings to the families of the victims

stefanel · Post by **stefanel** » 18 Jul 2007, 11:11

SN30952 wrote:
Airbus330lover wrote:
SN30952 wrote:Slick runway or aquaplaning?. Runway conditions the cause of the disaster?
Not only weather conditions, but runway in very bad conditions since 3 years.
Two causes for one result
That runway just received a new cover, the length of the runway and poor drainage were risks.
And was the crew asked to expedite their approach?

thanks for this very detailed post.
What do you mean by "and was the crew asked to expedite their approach?"

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 18 Jul 2007, 11:18

sn26567 wrote:
SN30952 wrote:
David747 wrote:The plane skidded off the Runway during takeoff, due to heavy rains. preliminary reports.
Tam Linhas Aereas Flight JJ 3054 was enroute to Sao Paulo from Porto Alegre.
Yes, but when the pilot saw he was skidding he tried to take off again.

IMHO, it skidded during landing. It did not take off again, the end of the runway is higher than the avenida.
Maybe the pilot attempted to go around, but I did not get any tangible data on that. This runway is short, too short for that.
Lets wait to hear the conversations in & with the cockpit. But that will a problem, because ATC is still in military hands in Brasil.
ATC in Brasil depends on Ministerio da Defesa....

The A320 hit the building in the ground floor...

jelger · Post by **jelger** » 18 Jul 2007, 14:43

I understood that (apart from the supposedly bad state of the runway) the runway was slippery as result of rain, after weeks of dry weather, which mostly (also on regular roads) result in dirt and grease stuck on surface suddenly to wash up with the rain.

Zorba · Post by **Zorba** » 18 Jul 2007, 15:03

sn26567 wrote:Yes, but when the pilot saw he was skidding he tried to take off again.

SN26567 could be right, also explaining why he ended up so far.

Take a look at this: http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1021719/L/

Probably the worst airport in the world: the airport is elevated and there is a gas station close to the end of the runway. Great job

stefanel · Post by **stefanel** » 18 Jul 2007, 17:23

Rutger wrote:
sn26567 wrote:Yes, but when the pilot saw he was skidding he tried to take off again.
SN26567 could be right, also explaining why he ended up so far.

Take a look at this: http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1021719/L/

Probably the worst airport in the world: the airport is elevated and there is a gas station close to the end of the runway. Great job

Amazing!

Zorba · Post by **Zorba** » 18 Jul 2007, 18:51

List of passengers is now released:

http://www.taminforma.com.br/imprensa.aspx?id=1438

Very sad

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