They're gonna wet-lease (ACMI?) an aircraft to compensate the shortage. They also recalled ex-sabena captains for the long-haul routes.
I'm sure the self-sponsored type-rating could work. At least if Brussels Airlines signs a steady contract with the candidates after selection. Maybe pilots would offer more loyalty to their airline if they need to pay by themselves as they would need to think twice before going in?
You cannot compare a self-sponsorised scheme with Ryan or Easy and with b.Air. The two first are paying so much more, it might still be interesting paying for the rating (might be easily repaid).
Considering a new ab-initio pilot who paid himself the initial training might have as high as 10-years debts, I doubt any would risk doubling his debts and being paid as low as 1600€ a month when he cannot fly - (sickness, pregnancy or annual leave)
By the way, new recruits are already bonded for 3 years.
- I can understand pilots who want to leave when they are tempted by salaries that are up to 50% higher. Who wouldn't?! I know I would have a hard time staying loyal to my company if someone offered me 50% net more for the same work.
- secondly, I think Brussels Airlines needs to look at the full cost of a pilot, over his whole career...let's say the "total cost of ownership" of having a pilot on the payroll, from enrollment to outplacement. I bet that a good loyalty strategy, based on good future prospects, a fair remuneration, attractive company culture, etc. is even cheaper than paying pilots less as you minimize costs of hiring, outplacing, wet leasing,...
- finally, the question for a different fiscal regime is simply rediculous. It would mean that any company in financial difficulties can knock on the door of the tax authorities and ask for a better individual taxation agreement. This kind of positive (or negative, depending on which side you are on) discrimination is not toleratable, certainly not in times where we know that future pensions are hard to pay.
- I'm a big aviation enthousiast and wish all the best to any Belgian airline, but if they can not survive in a liberalised market, the simple conclusion is that the either have to scale down and specialise, or close their doors and leave the market for players who can operate profitably.
So far my reflections. Feel free to elaborate on them, I think there are some interesting topics that can be discussed.
In "De Standaard" online you can read an article about all this.
Apparently Brussels Airlines is setting up a campaign to attract new pilots, and they are thinking about increasing the salary...finally!!
And by how much will they raise the salary? I don't believe in allof this. I also heard from pilots that there are pilots abroad who want to come back cause they don't like it at all. Money isn't everything.
If they want to do something about this situation at BR.Air. they should act quickly as more and more people will leave the company if this goes on like this..
teddybAIR wrote:
- finally, the question for a different fiscal regime is simply rediculous. It would mean that any company in financial difficulties can knock on the door of the tax authorities and ask for a better individual taxation agreement. This kind of positive (or negative, depending on which side you are on) discrimination is not toleratable
Fully agreee Teddy, the belgian tax system is the same for all belgians. It is a belgian problem, not an aviation problem. The party who wanted a UK-like tax system lost a lot of votes during the last elections.
During the Sabena period the difference in taxes already existed, but the gross salaries were the same. People only left Sabena in periods of uncertain future, and this is what is happening at BruAir now...
-) first of all:
the less favorable tax system is indeed just an excuse to put responsability elsewhere and not having to do something, as not only the NET salaries at SN are lower than abroad, but also the GROSS salaries...
Rather than search for lame excuses like the above, why doesn't SN start with increasing the GROSS salaries back to normal levels, before it starts to moan about the Belgian tax system?
BTW, as 'le soir' rightfully mentions in its report today: during the start-up and right after the pilots had to take a 25 to 30% pay cut, it was promissed by SN's Human resource managers SN would increase salaries after 3 years of operations (at the latest)... We're 6 years down the road, and apart from a free mobile (mind you, only the monthly fee, not the communications) to which we are reminded 'ad infinitum et nauseam' by our chief-pilots in every single lettre from them, nothing has changed!
In other words, today's timid promise to be willing to review our pay grids can likely be added to the long list of BROKEN promisses SN has made us with one common purpose: buying time.
To put it in the worlds of a Flemish politician who basically won the recent elections with this one-liner: WIE GELOOFT DEZE MENSEN NOG?
-) Secondly, if the tax system in Belgium is indeed so unfair on SN, then why are we still based here? I mean, Ryanair operates in CRL, yet pays its workers in Ireland, Netjet pilots are based at their home addresses (and connect to their working place by scheduled flight) yet pay income taxes in Portugal, hardly a single pilot flying for Cargolux actually lives in Luxembourg, yet they all pay (much lower) income taxes overthere...
The pilot community at SN wouldn't mind being delocated to elsewhere in Europe for fiscal reasons on condition our social security and pension system is maintained, something which is possible (in Luxembourg notably), yet for political reasons, the shareholders don't see this as an acceptable solution.
Sorry to say, but the respect which has gained some people a title of nobility seems to be built on making decisions which are against the interests of the company AND its employees, while at every single occasion they stress how concerned they are with our situation and the need to have a little bit more patience: WIE GELOOFT DEZE MENSEN NOG?
-) Thirdly, the quick fix solution seems to be now that SN will hire contract pilots for long haul (I won't even ask how much these guys will be making per flight, because I know it will be similar to an average monthly salary) and wetlease at least one plane elsewhere to pick up European flights which otherwise would have to be cancelled...
Maybe somebody should mention to our briliant managers they have once signed a CLA in which they agreed NOT to outsource any of our flights (except the once daily CDG flight, which triggered the discussions and lead them to sign this agreement?): I guess objections against this from the Unions at SN will be labelled by our management as just another exemple of our 'oldfashioned and rigid working methods', just like they did when they broke the law by unilaterally introducing new flight time/duty times and subsequently were convicted by a Belgian labour court a few months ago... After all, it is seen as being old fashioned to respect colective labour agreements, isn't it?
Brings us back to the one-liner which fits at best here: WIE GELOOFT DEZE MENSEN NOG?
Last edited by tolipanebas on 10 Jul 2007, 16:58, edited 6 times in total.
Isn't it all about feeling your are being respected as an employee?
I don't know if an increase in salary can give you this feeling I guess for some it will and for other it won't.
I work for another Belgian company who has the same problems (crewing etc...)and I noticed that it isn't all about money.
Will you be less tired if you earn 25% more? Will you have a better social life if you earn 25% more?
I think it's the company profile which is important.
A full page (p2) about this topic in "Le Soir" this morning.
A summary (translated as well as I can):
- In six months, some 50 Brussels Airlines pilots (on 400) have quit, mostly to go work abroad. Moreover, it's often the more experienced ones who leave. For instance, 10 pilots, amongst whom the main instructors, have left Brussels Airlines for Cargo B. Other companies who attract the Belgian pilots : Air France, Ryanair, easyJet, Netjets and Cargolux.
- Pierre Ghyoot, of the Belgian Cockpit Association : The mean gross salary (salaire brut moyen) of a Brussels Airlines pilot is around 3500 euros, and between 5500 and 6900 euros for a captain. Abroad, it must be 15% more. And with a more favorable taxation.
- Brussels Airlines communication manager : usually 5% of the pîlots leave every year; at present, it's nearly 10%. Moreover, five captains have recently lost their license for medical reasons. We will try and recruit young pilots, also ex-military pilots and pilots from cargo companies; and we will examine very seriously the possibility of changing the tables of salaries, keeping in mind that we have to preserve our competitivity.
- 4 flight have recently had to be cancelled for lack of pilots.
- Brussels Airlines communication manager again : solutions have been found for september and october : some ten ex-Sabena pilots, 58 or 59 years old, will work as free-lance on long haul flights; we will take an aircraft on wet-lease; some Brussels Airlines pilots will thus be made available to coach the newly recruited pilots. And we try and convince some captains to forsake a few days off in exchange of additional pay.
Just for info as xpat pilot (captain) you can expect between 10 to 15,000 dollar a month on your payslip (net). And most of the time good pension funds, medical and dental care for the family, housing etc.....
Of course you will have to import your Belgian beer.
Belgium is deady on Tax ,i live there but work for a foreign airline something that saves me lots of money.
DHL belgium (EAT) are also loosing lots of pilots (As do DHL Air UK)
If airlines dont put up the money they will loose there pilots ,there is no loyalty left after how they treated there people during the bad years.
Just to show you, even in very poor countries in Africa, the salary is better: I know somebody working for Hewa Bora Airways, he earns 4000$ a month! As a copi, with 1000hrs of flight...
I would rather earn 3500 euros then 4000$.... and fly with propper aircrafts. What is left of the Hewa Bora fleet? Why do they need Brussels Airlines' 33O once a week????
there is a solution for high taxes and that is luxemburg, i´m not working in the aviation buisness yet, but the company i´m working for now employs me from luxemburg, it´s a renown belgian construction company with only a small office in luxemburg. When i will start looking for a pilot job , my first inquiry will be a luxemburg taxpaying company. I,m now already 4 years under luxemburg "flag" and i´m very happy with it, it´s not only lower taxes, as a belgian you have also extra benefits in social security(pension, child support money*2)
greetz
kvh
Last edited by kvanhecke on 11 Jul 2007, 11:07, edited 1 time in total.
kvanhecke wrote:there is a solution for high taxes and that is luxemburg, i´m not working in the aviation buisness yet, but the company i´m working for now employs me from luxemburg, it´s a renown belgian construction company with only a small office in luxemburg. When i will start looking for a pilot job , my first inquiry will be a luxemburg taxpaying company. I,m now already 4 years under luxemburg "flag" and i´m very happy with it, it´s not only lower taxes, as a belgian you have also extra benefits in social security(pension, child support money*2)
greetz
kvh
Koen, you better delete your name because what your company does is illegal!!! They can pay you in Luxemburg for duties you perform overthere and thet don't even need the small office for that.
But, if you work in Belgium for a belgian company via its small office in Lux you better be very discrete...
As an honest tax payer, I sincerely hope we don't meet in person, as I don't like the idea of me paying full taxes and others paying less because their companies are creative with tax regulations. My opinion is that your company should be fined big time for such practices.
I think this is actually a problem of belgium as a country.
If they stop taxing on work and tax instead on consumption the problem would be solved, not only airlines but also other sectors would be more competitive.
The thing is, as a pilot you spend most of your time in another country and that is the reason why in so many EU countries they get taxed less.
You don't have to point the finger only at Brussels airlines (allthough salaries are low) its more a national problem htey have and its time the politicians wake up.
