Paris air show: Orders for Airbus

David747 · Post by **David747** » 26 Jun 2007, 04:28

Wow, Airbus said one of its products is the best selling ever..what is the big deal, OF COURSE Airbus is going to say that, what do you want it to say, "A320 family is the second best selling planes" You know they won't say that and will not give its competition publicity. Some of you people need to chill out, take the side of one manufacturer over another is so puerile. With that being said, Airbus had a torrent of good news last week, which it was great to see. I don't think Airbus is "back" as Gallois proclaimed, Airbus was there, just in the news for bad reasons. Now that they are getting good news and good orders on their programs, maybe this year, both manufacturers will probably sell 1000+ planes again, 2 year for Airbus to do it in, 3rd year in a row for Boeing. Wouldn't that be great to see!

PYX · Post by **PYX** » 26 Jun 2007, 04:43

"puerile"?!
Calling someone or some company on an outright lie is hardly being childish. If that is considered acceptable business behavior it is a good thing I'm getting close to retirement.

David747 · Post by **David747** » 26 Jun 2007, 06:51

PYX wrote:"puerile"?!
Calling someone or some company on an outright lie is hardly being childish. If that is considered acceptable business behavior it is a good thing I'm getting close to retirement.

No, it is being childish, so grow up already.

PYX · Post by **PYX** » 26 Jun 2007, 07:13

IF you believe that such an outright lie is an acceptable business practice then please warn me when you graduate from college and start looking for a job. I wouldn't want to hire you or anyone like you.
Thank you.

sama91 · Post by **sama91** » 26 Jun 2007, 09:12

All you people are so lucky, whoever went to the Paris Air Show. i wish i could go.

from the looks of it, i am guessing Qatar and emirates will become big competitors and also with qatar on there way to finishing middle east's biggest airport, but not for long as dubai have started production on the world's biggest airport!

teach · Post by **teach** » 26 Jun 2007, 15:19

Calling someone or some company on an outright lie is hardly being childish.

It is when the 'lie' isn't all that 'outright' nor 'obvious' at all...

I doubt you can honestly say that the 737 first generation is the same aircraft as the 737NG. Hell, Boeing even restarted the line numbers from one when they started 737NG production. So technically, even Boeing considers it a different aircraft.

Seriously: it's all part of a game called marketing, and both players play the game equally. When sales numbers are to be compared, Boeing will call all 737 generations one family, and count them all up. When technical issues are concerned, they'll do their utmost to show it is NOT the same aircraft. And Airbus does the opposite. So, if you call what Airbus does an 'outright lie', then at least be fair and also call Boeing's way of doing things an 'outright lie'.

earthman · Post by **earthman** » 26 Jun 2007, 17:38

PYX wrote:IF you believe that such an outright lie is an acceptable business practice then please warn me when you graduate from college and start looking for a job. I wouldn't want to hire you or anyone like you.
Thank you.

Outright lies are considered mandatory in most sales departments.

PYX · Post by **PYX** » 26 Jun 2007, 17:54

earthman wrote:
PYX wrote:IF you believe that such an outright lie is an acceptable business practice then please warn me when you graduate from college and start looking for a job. I wouldn't want to hire you or anyone like you.
Thank you.
Outright lies are considered mandatory in most sales departments.

Simply Not true. Any reputable company would fire such people as they put the company at risk.

bits44 · Post by **bits44** » 26 Jun 2007, 18:45

Simply Not true. Any reputable company would fire such people as they put the company at risk.

Absolutely true, any statement made by any employee involved in the negotiation of a contract or sales proposal can be construed as a contractual part of any agreement and would be subject to legal repercussions.

As an example if you were John Doe aircraft salesman and told Jane Doe Airlines that your Aircraft would better any aircraft currently planned or in service as far as seat per mile cost goes and Jane Doe Airlines decides to purchase John Doe's Aircraft based on that statement. John Doe and his company would be liable for damages and misrepresentation.

Plus the Stock Market regulators would have a field day with forward looking statements based on misrepresentation.

It's a new market economy out there, stretching the truth, bending the rules, telling the customer what he wants to hear, are sure fire ways to ensure your failure, customers are very smart, and they have heard all the lines before.
It's amazing how honesty and being straightforward with your customers reaps rewards.

teach · Post by **teach** » 26 Jun 2007, 21:04

Simply Not true. Any reputable company would fire such people as they put the company at risk.

So let's see what that tells us about this situation. Now, unless you're going to try and tell us Airbus isn't a reputable company, it tells me that what you 'called them out on' simply isn't an 'outright lie'.

PYX · Post by **PYX** » 26 Jun 2007, 21:39

teach wrote:
Simply Not true. Any reputable company would fire such people as they put the company at risk.
So let's see what that tells us about this situation. Now, unless you're going to try and tell us Airbus isn't a reputable company, it tells me that what you 'called them out on' simply isn't an 'outright lie'.

It is an outright lie, or if it makes you feel better, a purposeful misrepresentation of the facts. Draw your own conclusions.
Isn't this a good part of the reason Airbus finds themselves in the position they are today? Making promises they couldn't keep and then lying about the problems until they couldn't hide it anymore. Then there is the little matter of "insider trading."

teach · Post by **teach** » 26 Jun 2007, 22:48

It is an outright lie, or if it makes you feel better, a purposeful misrepresentation of the facts.

Just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it so. The way I see it, Boeing adding up the sales of this plane:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1228167/L/
and this one:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1228474/L/
as being one and the same plane is at least an equally 'purposeful misrepresentaion of the facts' as what Airbus does...

Put it simple: the difference between the first and last generation of 737s is as big as the difference between the original A300 and the A330/340, i.e. the only thing common is the fuselage diameter and the shape of the nose. And yet you don't see Airbus calling the A300/310/330/340 the single most successful widebody ever produced, do you?

Isn't this a good part of the reason Airbus finds themselves in the position they are today? Making promises they couldn't keep and then lying about the problems until they couldn't hide it anymore.

I'm sorry, how exactly is saying the 737NG is not the same plane as the 737-1/200 'making promises you can't keep' or 'lying about problems'?

Oh, right, it has nothing to do with it, and you thought you'd just add a few completely unrelated cheap shots at Airbus. Gotcha! Whoosh! That's your credibility right out the window!

cageyjames · Post by **cageyjames** » 26 Jun 2007, 22:57

are you kidding me guys?

Its all freaking marketing. Who cares....

David747 · Post by **David747** » 27 Jun 2007, 04:25

cageyjames wrote:are you kidding me guys?

Its all freaking marketing. Who cares....

Thank you, only a child would fight about Airbus saying that the A320 is the best selling jetliner of all time.

cageyjames · Post by **cageyjames** » 27 Jun 2007, 15:33

David747 wrote:Thank you, only a child would fight about Airbus saying that the A320 is the best selling jetliner of all time.

Well both Boeing and Airbus are able to say that their narrowbody jet is the best selling in history.

Why anyone would argue that either isn't is beyond me.

Post by **ElcoB** » 27 Jun 2007, 15:57

For more numbers and interpretation see:

Boeing 737

Airbus A320 family

smokejumper · Post by **smokejumper** » 27 Jun 2007, 16:15

Thanks ElcoB. I've always intended to pull-together a matrix like you did , but never got around to it.

Post by **ElcoB** » 27 Jun 2007, 16:47

smokejumper wrote:Thanks ElcoB. ...

Oh, but honor go's to the people who write

the free encyclopedia Wikipedia together.

They have marvellous pages about

Aviation