JAF fleet expansion ?
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I'm surprised nobody is talking about this message..BATAVIA wrote:Hey,
Just for your info regarding the JAF fleet expansion, the -500 ex Hapag lloyd Express was supossed to add the JAF fleet earlier this month, but due to a negative audit from BCAA earlier, BCAA does not accept to put another airplane on the Belgian register (OO) for JAF as long as things are not changing, meaning, technical, crewing etc...
This info comes from well informed sources inside the cy...
What happened to JAF ? Does someone know more precisely the flaws which were found ?
I thought they were better organized than mentioned above...
Chris
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Spotter 22
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I think their managment-style of the past 3 years has finally started back-firing. After threatening their personnel numerous times & not giving them any opportunity to voice their opinion, plenty of them have decided to leave the sinking ship... Maybe they could re-brand to TITANIC Airways!
In the past 3 months approximately 30 cabin crew have left!!! Initials which have been trained only 1 month ago are already leaving... I think that says all! Result: several subcharters daily... that must cost them a fortune.
Spicy detail to finish: I've been informed by an internal source that their AOC has only been extended with 6 months!! (At the same time, the AOC of Thomas Cook was extended with 2 years...)
I wonder how long it will take before this will turn into the beginning of the end for certain managers... in my opinion the only positive thing happening to the poor employees. It's about time the slavery is over!
Avi8tor
Fly'em
In the past 3 months approximately 30 cabin crew have left!!! Initials which have been trained only 1 month ago are already leaving... I think that says all! Result: several subcharters daily... that must cost them a fortune.
Spicy detail to finish: I've been informed by an internal source that their AOC has only been extended with 6 months!! (At the same time, the AOC of Thomas Cook was extended with 2 years...)
I wonder how long it will take before this will turn into the beginning of the end for certain managers... in my opinion the only positive thing happening to the poor employees. It's about time the slavery is over!
Avi8tor
Fly'em
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Spotter 22
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OMGavi8tor wrote:
Spicy detail to finish: I've been informed by an internal source that their AOC has only been extended with 6 months!! (At the same time, the AOC of Thomas Cook was extended with 2 years...)
I wonder how long it will take before this will turn into the beginning of the end for certain managers... in my opinion the only positive thing happening to the poor employees. It's about time the slavery is over!
6 months!! That's a drastic decision of the autorithies...something must be really wrong to take such a decision, I think most of the tourists who booked don't know this.Hope this won't backfire onto the personnel in the end like usually in aviation...the managers probabely get another better paid job and someone else can clean up the mess...
Hope this won't be another drama in Belgian aviation...
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Spotter 22
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Hi all!
I read the same article in "De Tijd"... For insiders this article must be another slap in the face cause it's full of bullsh*t! But then again, they've always been great in wrapping an empty box beautifully!
Quick recap of the article:
"We've just received an EXCELLENT report from our German mothercompany after a couple of audits." --> no wonder, not even at the Jetair headquarters in Ostend they know half of all the mess which is going on in Zaventem... let alone in Germany!
"The acute problems which Jetairfly has to counter today have to do with a shortage of crew and a late delivery of aircrafts... a 737-400 of Air Berlin is expected end of may." --> you can change ACUTE to CHRONIC cause every summer they don't seem to get the correct number of crew needed. The 737-400 was already flown to BRU late March and has been parked there since. According to my sources it's the BCAA that refuses to put the extra aircrafts on their AOC following their logic opinion that it's not necessary as long as they do not have the crews available to fly those aircraft. They will only be registered on their AOC after resolving their operational problems!
And obviously no trace in the article of how crews are fatigued, threatened and exploited by them... These days I don't get to see any of my friends which work for them: they only fly, sleep, eat, fly... As much as I respect them, I DO NOT understand why they allow them to be used as doormat and don't start any actions ... Instead, they stay like a terrified pussycat trembling in a corner, afraid of the big bad wolf (they'll know who that is)! But one day they'll regret for not having reacted... but then it might be TOO late...
avi8tor
Fly'em
I read the same article in "De Tijd"... For insiders this article must be another slap in the face cause it's full of bullsh*t! But then again, they've always been great in wrapping an empty box beautifully!
Quick recap of the article:
"We've just received an EXCELLENT report from our German mothercompany after a couple of audits." --> no wonder, not even at the Jetair headquarters in Ostend they know half of all the mess which is going on in Zaventem... let alone in Germany!
"The acute problems which Jetairfly has to counter today have to do with a shortage of crew and a late delivery of aircrafts... a 737-400 of Air Berlin is expected end of may." --> you can change ACUTE to CHRONIC cause every summer they don't seem to get the correct number of crew needed. The 737-400 was already flown to BRU late March and has been parked there since. According to my sources it's the BCAA that refuses to put the extra aircrafts on their AOC following their logic opinion that it's not necessary as long as they do not have the crews available to fly those aircraft. They will only be registered on their AOC after resolving their operational problems!
And obviously no trace in the article of how crews are fatigued, threatened and exploited by them... These days I don't get to see any of my friends which work for them: they only fly, sleep, eat, fly... As much as I respect them, I DO NOT understand why they allow them to be used as doormat and don't start any actions ... Instead, they stay like a terrified pussycat trembling in a corner, afraid of the big bad wolf (they'll know who that is)! But one day they'll regret for not having reacted... but then it might be TOO late...
avi8tor
Fly'em
I can tell you, as an insider, that it's all true...
But: it still is a great company to work in, the "crew spirit" is superb! But we are all asking the same questions, what will happen to our company if they keep running it like this? We work like dogs, minimum rest times are sometimes to laugh with... And then you read a memo from the management that says : "we are more concerned about the fitness of the cockpit crew than the cabin crew" i just want to say: COME ON! If you even dare to say things like that, don't be surprised that there will be actions...
They think that they can use everybody as they wish...
And then the problem of cockpit crew... We need pilots, we need them bad... So what do they do? The hire them, and give them ground duties, like OCC (Dispatch) or planning...
Speaking about planning, i know that some pilots had about 40 roster changes last month... I'm not complaining, i had only 13 in the first 10 days... With Sobelair, a time where there weren't computers to make rosters, there were hardly any changes... Now it has become a sport to change everything. After every flight, everybody is guessing about what he or she has recieved for tomorrow in stead of the schedueled flight
We all look forward to recieve the new, or almost new airplanes soon, if they are still needed then... Like us...
But: it still is a great company to work in, the "crew spirit" is superb! But we are all asking the same questions, what will happen to our company if they keep running it like this? We work like dogs, minimum rest times are sometimes to laugh with... And then you read a memo from the management that says : "we are more concerned about the fitness of the cockpit crew than the cabin crew" i just want to say: COME ON! If you even dare to say things like that, don't be surprised that there will be actions...
They think that they can use everybody as they wish...
And then the problem of cockpit crew... We need pilots, we need them bad... So what do they do? The hire them, and give them ground duties, like OCC (Dispatch) or planning...
Speaking about planning, i know that some pilots had about 40 roster changes last month... I'm not complaining, i had only 13 in the first 10 days... With Sobelair, a time where there weren't computers to make rosters, there were hardly any changes... Now it has become a sport to change everything. After every flight, everybody is guessing about what he or she has recieved for tomorrow in stead of the schedueled flight
We all look forward to recieve the new, or almost new airplanes soon, if they are still needed then... Like us...
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Spotter 22
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tragically and comic at the same time...And still the JAF-management doesn't open their eyes... it's like their only concern is making as much money as possible. But at what expense???
I heard that planning there is a REAL disaster. Why? Because they promise to new ab initio pilots that they don't have to pay for their type rating if they do dispatching or planning for a couple of months first (but even that doesn't keep them there cause some of them already left to other companies before starting their training)! No wonder that the planning is a mess... By the time they start getting the picture they've already started their training and in the meantime they don't give a sh*t about how to plan... until they are getting the same unlogic rosters that they've been making before.
I really hope for all of them that something's gonna change ASAP, but will that ever happen?
avi8tor
Fly'em!
I heard that planning there is a REAL disaster. Why? Because they promise to new ab initio pilots that they don't have to pay for their type rating if they do dispatching or planning for a couple of months first (but even that doesn't keep them there cause some of them already left to other companies before starting their training)! No wonder that the planning is a mess... By the time they start getting the picture they've already started their training and in the meantime they don't give a sh*t about how to plan... until they are getting the same unlogic rosters that they've been making before.
I really hope for all of them that something's gonna change ASAP, but will that ever happen?
avi8tor
Fly'em!
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BrusselsAirlines
- Posts: 118
- Joined: 07 Nov 2006, 18:29
I was in their FO selection round last year;
- one day, they called me for a company presentation, part of their FO recruitment process
- it seemed to be a presentation about self funded TR at 27.000€ + taxes - woops!
- 2 weeks later got a call from SFA; they organised a selection for a self funded for TUI at 21.500 tax incl ???
- by now, already multiple companies trying to suck money out of my pockets
- last option was not possible for TUI (saving me 10.000€) as I already entered selection for the 1st option via their own TRTO
- finally as I was not biting they offered me the dispatch sh*t deal, replacing nav plates etc
- when I discovered I had to do that for an undisclosed time (probably at least 1 year - read untill they were unable to find direct entries...how frustrating can that be) + reserve after the TR training another few years of ground duty each month
Something just felt not reliable about this company - I wonder why...?
Good to hear the news on their AOC as it was generally known that they 'played' with the rosters...
At the time I told them that these practices were unrespectful and unacceptable and would finally blow back into their face.
- one day, they called me for a company presentation, part of their FO recruitment process
- it seemed to be a presentation about self funded TR at 27.000€ + taxes - woops!
- 2 weeks later got a call from SFA; they organised a selection for a self funded for TUI at 21.500 tax incl ???
- by now, already multiple companies trying to suck money out of my pockets
- last option was not possible for TUI (saving me 10.000€) as I already entered selection for the 1st option via their own TRTO
- finally as I was not biting they offered me the dispatch sh*t deal, replacing nav plates etc
- when I discovered I had to do that for an undisclosed time (probably at least 1 year - read untill they were unable to find direct entries...how frustrating can that be) + reserve after the TR training another few years of ground duty each month
Something just felt not reliable about this company - I wonder why...?
Good to hear the news on their AOC as it was generally known that they 'played' with the rosters...
At the time I told them that these practices were unrespectful and unacceptable and would finally blow back into their face.
Last edited by BrusselsAirlines on 15 May 2007, 18:47, edited 1 time in total.
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website-info
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Perhaps working in dispatch you might have learnt a liitle respect for the guys and girls in the back office. At my last airline all flight cre whad to spend 2 weeks every year working on ops. Does away with a lot of arrogancy from them toward dispatch....... but hey good luck with it anyway,BrusselsAirlines wrote: - finally as I was not biting they offered me the dispatch sh*t, replacing nav plates etc
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T
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BrusselsAirlines
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Always touchy subject for some people...
Filling racks at the local Delhaize, delivering pizza's and standing under the AA B767 in the pouring rain and snow as security agent for a few years got me my portion of respect for all people working in aviation in a stressful environment and at irregular times.
Just clean up the TUIJeatairflyJAF 'schoon verdiep' and all will be fine by next year!
But now it's me going tooootaly of topic - sorry for that!
Filling racks at the local Delhaize, delivering pizza's and standing under the AA B767 in the pouring rain and snow as security agent for a few years got me my portion of respect for all people working in aviation in a stressful environment and at irregular times.
Just clean up the TUIJeatairflyJAF 'schoon verdiep' and all will be fine by next year!
But now it's me going tooootaly of topic - sorry for that!
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BrusselsAirlines
- Posts: 118
- Joined: 07 Nov 2006, 18:29
Re: working in dispatch
It's not unusal - in a lot of other companies, in other branches - to let new staff get a basic experience "on the workfloor", before working in the actual work place they were engaged for.
In the case of an airline, I find this defendable. It increases insight in back-office activities, and maybe even in the work that is being done getting passengers for the flights you will be flying. I have a tremendous respect for flying crew, but even if the job in the cockpit is crucial, running an airline is more than just what happens between the walls and the windowshields of a cockpit. (I hope I'm not mistaken : I do have respect for pilots and their highly responsible and skilled job, but running an airline is more than flying only. And that's what they could learn, while working in dispatch)
It's not unusal - in a lot of other companies, in other branches - to let new staff get a basic experience "on the workfloor", before working in the actual work place they were engaged for.
In the case of an airline, I find this defendable. It increases insight in back-office activities, and maybe even in the work that is being done getting passengers for the flights you will be flying. I have a tremendous respect for flying crew, but even if the job in the cockpit is crucial, running an airline is more than just what happens between the walls and the windowshields of a cockpit. (I hope I'm not mistaken : I do have respect for pilots and their highly responsible and skilled job, but running an airline is more than flying only. And that's what they could learn, while working in dispatch)
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BrusselsAirlines
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- Joined: 07 Nov 2006, 18:29
sorry sorry guys - just don't take that sentence out of its context please!!
I just don't think it's a fair deal to keep your prospect pilots stuck at dispatch, in the mean time run a 'cost free' ops department which is a job for specialized and devoted people
On top of that they keep on trying to find direct entry pilots and those young guys just have to see all this happening and keep on waiting - I just think that that is not the good long term strategy.
and again - off topic!
I just don't think it's a fair deal to keep your prospect pilots stuck at dispatch, in the mean time run a 'cost free' ops department which is a job for specialized and devoted people
On top of that they keep on trying to find direct entry pilots and those young guys just have to see all this happening and keep on waiting - I just think that that is not the good long term strategy.
and again - off topic!
I do agree that it's a sad situation and I hope it will changa as soon as possible.
Back to topic.
JAFflyer wrote something about a B787 coming up in 2011? If that's the case, it's good news.
So, a new 737-400 + a 737-500 are coming, but also 1 (or 2?) new 737-800 and finally a 757 is under investigation. That's kind of a big fleet expansion!
Back to topic.
JAFflyer wrote something about a B787 coming up in 2011? If that's the case, it's good news.
So, a new 737-400 + a 737-500 are coming, but also 1 (or 2?) new 737-800 and finally a 757 is under investigation. That's kind of a big fleet expansion!
Fly Belgian!
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EBAW_flyer
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