OO-TUC stuck in Dominican Republic.

[gliding-glider]

What a load of crap I have read here.
First of all, our TUC hasn't been AOG since August, the aircraft is in good shape now, what can JAF do about a rabbit being sucked into the engine??

Second: if you are in the airline business, you'll know that no other LH aircraft were available now. Yes, we have aircraft in the TUI group and nobody speaks about the 260 pax we helped with a Thomsonfly 767. 767's don't grow on treas.

Third: We had a sollution but EuroAtlantic waited until the last moment to say their aircraft wasn't out of maintenance (contract signed, pax informed and then we got this news).

Fourth: pax were being offered a room in the Sheraton (not a bad hotel at all!!!). We gave them food, beds, etc... This is a service you can't expect from every airline nowadays. (Ryanair, Easyjet, ....)

Fifth: the fact of JAF not wanting to pay for any other LH aircraft is crap...

Now I hope you'll all calm down bitching on JAF because who just got the most awards from Belgian touroperators??? That's right, Jetair.
You should support a Belgian airline instead of bringing it down.
Hasn't SN got loads of troubles with their 330's? This is aviation, and a rabbit, sorry, but nobody can foresee that.

JAFflyer, don't get upset with all the people. If you read my comments, you will see my point of the situation. Even of some others also.
Again, I'm not pleasant at all for the pax who where looking for a well deserved vacation (apart for those, (unexpected) having extended their vacation in good hotels on the account of Jetair of course in the Caribbean)

All those for blaming JAF for not having a ,, spare ,, or ,, second ,, LH aircraft within the fleet ..... well, it's very easy, these forum members do not have a clue how an airline operates nor the costs of an aircraft in the total overhaul of the company. Operating such a Long-Haul aircraft costs plenty of $$$$$$ and in aviation, every cent,, counts ,,! JAF has clearly all in place in regard to maintenance ......
However, QUID AOG? .... It's out of the good sence of everybody .... we used to call this .... act of god .... And yes, take it or leave it!

Perhaps the ILS didn't work and the poor rabbit was of track, no? ..... Jesus, get real.

Again, I used to be in this business year's ago and clearly understand JAF's / JETAIR's situation .....

Much of these people here on the forum do think they have knowledge about aviation because they know the difference between an A320 and a B747. However, aviation is a totally other business ...

Before (and yes do shoot) giving comments .... think twice ....

Greetz

PS - do all those negative comments placers here have a second spare car at home, just using it if ( .... eeuhhhh, knowing some people here, if allowed to drive of course) your main car would fail?

[Kapitein]

JAF chartered N801DE from World Airways.
Will arrive at 0200 LT from Cancun.

[Flying-Belgian]

I read and respect your comments JAFlyer and Gliding-Glider. If you find the forums are full of crap and childish comments, I would suggest to both of you not to come anymore though this would be sad.

But still I don't find it very clever to say that pax hadn't to complain because they would have been treated much worse with FR, Easy or others LCC. One must distinguish a Tour-Operator contract, a LCC ticket sale and an IATA carrier ticket sale. By far the tour-operator has much more responsabilities than the other two as they usually sell a package (I except the "fly-only" clients).

I have A LOT OF respect for all the JAF employees, but the JAF management should take its responsabilities and face them. Operating with a single airplane such a network, knowing the plane hasn't a bright past in terms of dispatch reliability is somehow... potentially misleading its clients !!! That being said, I don't doubt JAF tried to find solutions.

Rgds;

F.B

[JAFflyer]

If you find the forums are full of crap and childish comments, I would suggest to both of you not to come anymore though this would be sad.

I just want to set the record straight, that's all. LH aircraft don't grow on treas, especially not in this time of the year.

Now, enough said.
Oh yeah, the women complaining on the news about jetair (on VRT), boarded a jetairfly plane this morning on her way to Egypt. Suddenly, Jetair was ok enough I suppose...

[gliding-glider]

I read and respect your comments JAFlyer and Gliding-Glider. If you find the forums are full of crap and childish comments, I would suggest to both of you not to come anymore though this would be sad.

Rgds;

F.B

Dear F.B.

with ALL respect!;

OK, no problem, I'll withdraw from this subject ....
However, ... bear in mind that personally I am totally not employed by JETAIR nor JAF, nor working in aviation business any more .....
But I know the business .... and I recognize the foolish talks around so (yes, read lot of crap on this forum subject ... , so people with knowledge will take up their position as I do).

I feel so sorry for ....... ==> a good understanding person just need a word.

Kind regards,

[mayhem]

Kinda funny, when i started reading this thread i expected to see a "different version than on tv", yet aviation enthousiast are also whining the same bullsh*t as the people on tv??

What on earth has a rabbit in an engine to do with bad maintenance? This happens and if it happens during a busy period, it provides extra difficulties... And as this thread began with, they did search for a spare aircraft... I wasn't there in the Sheraton, but if people keep asking and whining "we want news we want news, what's happening" and th mgmt is in meeting with some other airline, and csa's tell this to pax, then the pax don't have to be upset if it doesn't go through...

pax think they have too many rights, definitely when they come on tv..


btw, i'm just a simple student who's very interested in aviation and knows a little bit about how business work...

[TC-MNE]

poor Jetair, poor tourists... poor rabbit...

tourists are very ungrateful beings... but mostly, their bark is worse than their bite...

only too bad this kind of problem always happens during 'de mooiste (en drukste) tijd van het jaar'

[Cartman]

What on earth has a rabbit in an engine to do with bad maintenance?

Nothing at all. But if you read this forum once before, you'd know that OO-TUC has has lots of technical problems in the past. The last fifteen times it got stuck in e.g. POP or VRA were technical malfunctions. Can happen if you buy a jet that has been parked unprotected in 90% Brazilian humidity for a few years (if you want a cheap jet, you get this kind of aircraft). Hence the bad reputation of OO-TUC. A friend of mine who works in a travel agency clearly tells clients not travel on these
flights. Says enough, no?

I wasn't there in the Sheraton, but if people keep asking and whining "we want news we want news, what's happening" and th mgmt is in meeting with some other airline, and csa's tell this to pax, then the pax don't have to be upset if it doesn't go through...

pax think they have too many rights, definitely when they come on tv..

My god, I hope you'll never run an airliner in your life. Ever heard of the European Charter for Passenger Rights?

I sincerely hope that your next 7-days 1100€ vacation to Mexico will be cancelled after two days of waiting in a boring hotel room at the airport. I'll be there to witness your professional, understanding and aviation-minded reaction of calmness and your eager to fly with that company again.

btw, i'm just a simple student who's very interested in aviation and knows a little bit about how business work...

If you know how business works, you should realize that this is not the path to costumer satisfaction, good reputation and cost-saving. OO-TUC has cost JAF a whole more money than they hoped by purchasing a cheap but badly maintained jet.

[JAFflyer]

As said before, TUC's last AOG was in August. Technical malfunctions do happen (ever heard of Arkefly's 767's ???? ).
When TUC was bought it had months of maintenance, do you really think Sabena technics will let a 767 with 261 seats fly when it doesn't meet standards? Who will sign of an aircraft with his name when that aircraft isn't 100% in line with regulations.

Please, spare me the stories of it being a bad machine. No pilot would fly it if it wasn't safe. You as aviation enthousiasts should be the first to know that!

@ mayhem: I was hoping this would be that kind of a thread too and was trying to give helpful info that would be interesting to the outside world, but now ...

[BRANCOCALIENTE]

BCAA has to be more severe towards JAF,same situation can not happen again.
This aircraft (oo-tuc) is only relialable in Africa!

[TWA]

I still find it hard to believe that a tiny little rabbit can put an engine out of service.

Why didn't it happen in BRU yet. There are far more furry things running around than in the Republic. Actually I never saw a rabbit before on Carribean airports...and then this very rare accident happens with a company with only 1 single long haul A/C.
Speaking of coincidence...

[BrusselsAirlines]

Time to go back to 1 big belgian company with lots of planes...

In the end, not much will have changed.

[744rules]

As if a/c grow on trees.

I suggest all tickets are doubled in price. With this fund, all tour-operators can buy buy one spare aircraft sitting on the tarmac and wait until somewhere another brakes down.



If the bashing goes on, it might be a good idea to close the topic or bring it back to more constructive replies.

[Atlantis]

Today in the newspaper: Gunther Hofman, Jetair, says that the rabbit was sucked by the engine while the a/c departed at Brussels Airport.

Then I have a question: why didn't returned the a/c back to the airport instead of flying further to its destination?
He said that if the a/c was still at Brussels Airport the problems could be solved in 10 hours - I have no idea if that is possible or not - because parts has to come out of Frankfurt.

Very strange story.

But at the end of the story, they would not loose clients because the Belgian market is too small to choose between a lot of touroperators.

[airazurxtror]

Look it on the bright side, at least the pax stuck across the atlantic got a nice free extension of their holiday.

Such a passenger tells his story in the newspaper "La Capitale" this morning (page 15).
(And he took a picture of the local mechanics around : seems it was the starboard engine damaged).
His story :

The aircraft was down at Puerto Plata. We were to take off again to go to Punta Cana, one flight hour away, on the other side of the island.
We were told that rabbits had been sucked into the engine at take-off, and that some work had to be done on it.
For a few hours, mecanics kept fumbling around with hammers (sic).
There was a single Jetair hostess to assist the full load of tourists, furious about that lack of organisation, who were kept six hours waiting in the Puerto Plata terminal, without being offered a drink nor a snack.
We were then transferred in a hotel where we were left four days, in permanent stand-by.
We were to take a flight tuesday at 5. At 4.45, seeing no bus coming to bring us to the airport, we called the Jetair hostess, who told us that the aircraft was not yet repaired.
Only on thursday were the unhappy tourists carried to Puort Cana - by a bus, and it took 8 hours...

[carlcat]

He is back in town
At 08 AM I saw he was ready for boarding at gate 201

No rabbits in the area

[b-west]

The consumer organisation "Test aankoop" has apparently picked up the case. Their reaction in "De Standaard" was... well... showing a lot of their knowledge about aviation. They blame Jetair for flying a second hand plane, obviously having no idea that there are lots more "second hand" planes out there than new ones. On the remark from Jetair that there were no planes available to lease (at a reasonable price?) due to the busy Christmas and Hajj season, Testaankoop replied "nonsense, as if Americans would let their planes fly fundamentalists to Mecca"... wow... next to being highly incorrect, this reply was just blatantly racist!

The only valuable argument is that one long haul a/c in a fleet is asking for trouble when something goes wrong. But then again, you can't expect Jetair to buy a second plane to sit around and to be used in case something goes wrong with the first one...

[Avro]

Dear all,

First of all may I ask everybody to stay calm and to lead the discussion in a peaceful and constructive way. Otherwise the topic will be archived, despite its very interesting topic.

It’s an interesting topic as in my opinion this situation is pointing towards a general issue which JAF and other airlines are facing for quite some time.

Let me explain myself in order to be clear

First of all, our TUC hasn't been AOG since August, the aircraft is in good shape now, what can JAF do about a rabbit being sucked into the engine??

JAF can certainly do nothing against a rabbit strike or any FOD damage against its planes but you need to accept that it’s one additional issue concerning our beloved OO-TUC. As you know better then me OO-TUC has had quite some problems since it arrived and every time something happens people just make the link to all other stories related to this aircraft.

Second: if you are in the airline business, you'll know that no other LH aircraft were available now. Yes, we have aircraft in the TUI group and nobody speaks about the 260 pax we helped with a Thomsonfly 767. 767's don't grow on treas.
Third: We had a sollution but EuroAtlantic waited until the last moment to say their aircraft wasn't out of maintenance (contract signed, pax informed and then we got this news).
Fourth: pax were being offered a room in the Sheraton (not a bad hotel at all!!!). We gave them food, beds, etc... This is a service you can't expect from every airline nowadays. (Ryanair, Easyjet, ....)

Indeed we should not deny the fact that JAF managed to lease a Thomsonfly 767 and it seems that the L-1011 deal with EuroAtlantic didn’t go through due to EuroAtlantic and not due to JAF. JAF certainly tried to find solutions in this very busy period.
However, saying that the pax got a good solution by putting them in the Sheraton is debatable.
Yes it’s a good hotel, yes it’s better than Ryanair or Easyjet, but as far as I know JAF doesn’t advertise itself as a LCC!! Or do they?

However I would like to know why JAF didn’t put pax on other airlines flying to those destinations. I’m not speaking about holiday airlines which are fully booked but regular airlines certainly had some free seats or not? I might be wrong here as I’m no expert in that area!! I’m just raising a questions (I don’t want to be an armchair manager )

Now I hope you'll all calm down bitching on JAF because who just got the most awards from Belgian touroperators??? That's right, Jetair.
You should support a Belgian airline instead of bringing it down.

So you mean that because JAF received an award people aren’t allowed to criticise (whether they are right or wrong I don’t care) JAF anymore? We are here to discuss things and if life is always beautiful it would be a boring world.

Secondly, even if JAF is the best tour operator, one should always look to the future and try to improve its quality on every level. And I’m sorry to say so, but I think that JAF could learn some lessons thanks to this incident.

Hasn't SN got loads of troubles with their 330's? This is aviation, and a rabbit, sorry, but nobody can foresee that.

Yes SN had a lot of problems as well on that matter. And it just shows the same core problem as JAF has.
Flying a very dense schedule of long haul operations with only 1 plane is just asking for problems in case there is a malfunction with that plane. Knowing that the plane being used is the Belgian long haul plane which probably has the lowest dispatch reliability is only increasing the probability that something happens (being it a rabbit or a tech problem).

Nobody can deny this problem. And it’s exactly the same problem which SN is facing but in a minor way. They have 3 long haul planes and can back up some flights with 319’s flying to Dakar.

What on earth has a rabbit in an engine to do with bad maintenance?

One word: Nothing

However I think that the discussion is rather pointing out the core problem of JAF’s long haul fleet as I just pointed out. It’s a tricky issue I don’t deny it. A long haul plane costs a lot of money you can’t afford to have a spare one. However having huge delays in the summer or cancellations is also unacceptable in my opinion. Certainly when they become the standard and not the exception!!

The problem is always the same. When you just have on long haul aircraft with a very tight schedule it’s asking for problems. Each tiny delay is just stacking up against all other delays and is rapidly getting out of control.

When TUC was bought it had months of maintenance, do you really think Sabena technics will let a 767 with 261 seats fly when it doesn't meet standards? Who will sign of an aircraft with his name when that aircraft isn't 100% in line with regulations.

With all respect to Sabena Technics and other maintenance facilities, I don’t fully agree with your statement. I’m not implying anything against Sabena Technics but I’m afraid that signing off a plane as ready for flights, while it is not 100% ok does happen (I’m not telling names). Maybe even more often than people think.

It’s sad but true.

Please, spare me the stories of it being a bad machine. No pilot would fly it if it wasn't safe. You as aviation enthousiasts should be the first to know that!

There is a big difference between an unsafe plane and a plane with a horrible dispatch reliability. OO-TUC is certainly a safe plane. And above all that the redundancies are so big in an aircraft that I wouldn’t be afraid of crashing in OO-TUC However you cannot deny that the plane must have been a nightmare for OO-TUC’s management in the past year and that it’s costing a lot of money due to all tech problems it had!!!

I still find it hard to believe that a tiny little rabbit can put an engine out of service.

You’d be surprised to see what a rabbit can do to an engine !!

All in all I would like to finish on a positive note Even if the beginning of 2007 hasn't been bright for JAF until now I wish them a great year and hopefully a good year for OO-TUC as well

I hope to be flying with JAF in the future !!

Best Regards
Chris

[JAFflyer]

Two more factors in having difficulties finding an aircraft were:
1: A lof of time, if an aircraft was found, no crew was available to operate it (christmas hollidays...), definately not for such a long flight.

2: Finding an aircraft to go into Cuba is not that easy at all! If the guy from Test Aankoop speaks about Americans, then he should definately know, they don't fly into Cuba for political reasons.

About the place where the incident occured the rabbit was indeed sucked into the engine at BRU but as all parameters were normal (such as engine vibrations), the flight was continued as planned.

Greetz!

[Tommypilot]

About the place where the incident occured the rabbit was indeed sucked into the engine at BRU but as all parameters were normal (such as engine vibrations), the flight was continued as planned.

You are kidding, right?

Perhaps the crew didn't notice that there was a rabbit strike during take off? If they did so...they should have stopped the plane...

Anyway, thanks for your informations JAFflyer, much appreciated!
Glad that some people don't keep all the information within the company...