Iberia may switch to Boeing for long haul fleet

bits44 · Post by **bits44** » 04 Dec 2006, 13:56

http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx ... 24240.html

David747 · Post by **David747** » 04 Dec 2006, 15:35

That is amazing story, after the last time Iberia turned down Boeing.

Buzz · Post by **Buzz** » 04 Dec 2006, 16:25

Translation: "Hey Airbus, give us a better deal or we're going to Boeing"

smokejumper · Post by **smokejumper** » 04 Dec 2006, 16:32

It's not over until the fat lady sings. There is a lot of ground to cover until anyone gets a firm contract.

David747 · Post by **David747** » 04 Dec 2006, 18:26

Buzz wrote:Translation: "Hey Airbus, give us a better deal or we're going to Boeing"

IMO, that's a good thing to do

DFW · Post by **DFW** » 04 Dec 2006, 18:41

If this is only a negotiating ploy to get steeper discounts from Airbus, it won't work. Airbus is in no position to sell airplanes at breakeven prices. Over the next 8 years, they'll need to fund development of the A350 and rework of the A380, all this while paying late penalties for the A380s and losing revenue from the late deliveries. A320s are selling well, but margins are razor thin in that segment.

fcw · Post by **fcw** » 04 Dec 2006, 19:04

DFW wrote:If this is only a negotiating ploy to get steeper discounts from Airbus, it won't work. Airbus is in no position to sell airplanes at breakeven prices. Over the next 8 years, they'll need to fund development of the A350 and rework of the A380, all this while paying late penalties for the A380s and losing revenue from the late deliveries. A320s are selling well, but margins are razor thin in that segment.

They just sold 75 A319 options to Easy at the same price as Easy bought the 240 previous ones in 2002 So more or less half price...

Post by **airbuske** » 04 Dec 2006, 19:32

It would be a stupid move to choose for Boeing they orderd some A319/A320/A321's to phase out the MD's and harmonise the fleet and now they would choose for Boeing ?

DFW · Post by **DFW** » 04 Dec 2006, 20:36

fcw wrote:
DFW wrote:If this is only a negotiating ploy to get steeper discounts from Airbus, it won't work. Airbus is in no position to sell airplanes at breakeven prices. Over the next 8 years, they'll need to fund development of the A350 and rework of the A380, all this while paying late penalties for the A380s and losing revenue from the late deliveries. A320s are selling well, but margins are razor thin in that segment.
They just sold 75 A319 options to Easy at the same price as Easy bought the 240 previous ones in 2002 So more or less half price...

Sure, but the topic is the long haul fleet. Both Boeing and Airbus give steep discounts on narrowbodies because there is less differentiation between their respective models. Also, each has been building their narrowbody models for so long they've become very efficient at it. So it's the widebodies where the discounts/profits can flunctuate a lot. And Airbus is carrying too much of a financial load to give steep discounts on them.

cageyjames · Post by **cageyjames** » 04 Dec 2006, 20:47

airbuske wrote:It would be a stupid move to choose for Boeing they orderd some A319/A320/A321's to phase out the MD's and harmonise the fleet and now they would choose for Boeing ?

Would it really? I just don't see this as a big deal from a operations standpoint. We've got Boeing and Airbus widebodies all over the place and it hasn't been a problem for us.

I don't think the narrowbody fleet has much bearing on the widebody fleet. It isn't like the equipment used to service them is the same.

bits44 · Post by **bits44** » 04 Dec 2006, 21:58

Iberia is doing nothing more than covering all the bases, They will buy the most fuel efficent aircraft currrently available, and at this point in time that means Boeing aircraft.

You have to think like an airline, they have no patriotic ties, they must satisfy their customers, their shareholders, and most importantly their beancounters.

This is business, and nothing else.

Ruscoe · Post by **Ruscoe** » 05 Dec 2006, 01:09

I wish I could believe that!

Ruscoe

Buzz · Post by **Buzz** » 05 Dec 2006, 08:45

bits44 wrote:Iberia is doing nothing more than covering all the bases, They will buy the most fuel efficent aircraft currrently available, and at this point in time that means Boeing aircraft..

It's not that simple... Fuel efficiency is important, but they will also look at the aquisition costs, maintenance costs, pilot retraining costs etc.

If it were as simple as you said, the 787 would probably be history in 5 years, since the A350 will probably beet it on fuel efficiency...

vc-10 · Post by **vc-10** » 05 Dec 2006, 09:31

Not fuel efficient: Just efficient. If plane C burns $100 of fuel per passenger per Xkm, and plane H burns $150, then Plane C looks better. But if it costs $100 to service/crew etc plane C, but only $40 for plane H, then the totals are $200 for plane C but $190 for plane H. The airlines will go for plane H, unless fuel prices are doubleing frequently.

TWA · Post by **TWA** » 05 Dec 2006, 16:24

they should rather change their livery iso changing fleets, it does'nt suit the A340-600.

RC20 · Post by **RC20** » 09 Dec 2006, 04:40

bits44 wrote:Iberia is doing nothing more than covering all the bases, They will buy the most fuel efficent aircraft currrently available, and at this point in time that means Boeing aircraft.

You have to think like an airline, they have no patriotic ties, they must satisfy their customers, their shareholders, and most importantly their beancounters.

This is business, and nothing else.

You would think, but Lufthansa has kept going with the A340s, and Finnair with those as well as the yet to be finalized A350WXYZ

Most airlines are moving in that direction, but some don't for what I find unfathomable reasons, and some are politically driven (China being a case in point on narrow bodies now).

Frankly I can see playing off Boeing and Airbus in the narrow body machines, there is a pretty small efficiency difference between the two). In the big ones though, its larger, and should be the driving factor unless economics are out of it (China and Russia), but its not always true.

chunk · Post by **chunk** » 09 Dec 2006, 12:37

Erm.....the title of this thread could easily have been 'Iberia may stick with Airbus' or Iberia may not buy boeing - again'. ie. Says nothing.

fleabyte · Post by **fleabyte** » 17 Dec 2006, 20:02

A330's and wait for A350???

The A340 should not be ordered, maybe additional leases?

bits44 · Post by **bits44** » 17 Dec 2006, 20:44

chunk wrote:Erm.....the title of this thread could easily have been 'Iberia may stick with Airbus' or Iberia may not buy Boeing - again'. ie. Says nothing.

Mmmmm the first line of the published article:

MADRID (AFX) - Iberia Lineas Aereas de Espana SA said it may switch to Boeing Co when it comes to renew its long haul fleet, breaking a 10-year exclusive

Exactly what it says as published by Forbes!

asturex · Post by **asturex** » 19 Dec 2006, 11:13

Airbus is going through some turbulence, with the high euro against the dollar and the need for a huge amount of investment capital to develop the A350, Airbus is looking around for capital and for cheaper places outside Europe to manufacture.

With all this uncertainty the story of Iberia buying Boeing could be a way of the Spanish Government indirectly saying to Airbus 'don't take Spain for granted'.

Spain has already indicated that if Russia is going to be a participant in Airbus, Spain should be allowed to increase its participation to at least match Russia's.

So I think this may be less to do with what planes Iberia flies and more to do with Spain's participation in Airbus.

Aviation24.be

Iberia may switch to Boeing for long haul fleet

Iberia may switch to Boeing for long haul fleet

Iberia likely will stay Airbus

More to this than meets the eye?