bye bye Air Madrid

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 16 Dec 2006, 16:33

TWA wrote:Imagine SN taking over 5 A330's to boost up African, American and Asian destinations such as JNB, CAI, JFK, ORD, IAD, HKG, SIN...

Yes, and loads of works for Technics!

A bit exgagerated me thinks...?
3 wide bodies doing one return per day= 2000 pax/day
a couple of 319's another 1500 pax a day
That is more than what you wrote, fcw, me thinks...

AirDupont · Post by **AirDupont** » 16 Dec 2006, 17:31

Imagine, remember what happened to John Lennon after that song. Please not too much imagining....LOL
1 or 2 would be ok to start of with. I think Montreal will be the first new non-African destination....

blackhawk · Post by **blackhawk** » 16 Dec 2006, 17:41

fftopic: This is about Air Madrid, NOT Brussels Airlines looking for some long haule planes

TWA · Post by **TWA** » 16 Dec 2006, 19:35

Lot's of Air Madrid flightcrew are Belgian, so I guess they will be more than happy if they can continue flying their A/C in SN-outfit

Koenie666 · Post by **Koenie666** » 16 Dec 2006, 19:43

I didn't know that a part of their crews was belgian?

Anyway.. wasn't air madrid the stephchild of a big spanish tour operator?

Too bad it will go under because its initial idea of low cost flights to central and south america was very intresting. In my opinion their big and fast expansion was what caused them problems.

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 17 Dec 2006, 04:58

I have this unofficially, but only from companies being contacted: the Spanish government would be chartering planes for thousands of passengers the budget airline has left stranded.

Post by **sn26567** » 17 Dec 2006, 09:34

I seem to remember that Air Madrid had some kind of agreement with SN BA. What's going to happen to that? No big loss, I guess...

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 17 Dec 2006, 19:41

Spain's regulators checked Air Madrid's fleet daily since May due to safety concerns

BrightCedars · Post by **BrightCedars** » 18 Dec 2006, 09:57

Didn't they order A350s or something A330/340 recently from Airbus?

Philippe1983 · Post by **Philippe1983** » 18 Dec 2006, 10:36

fcw wrote:
SN30952 wrote:Latest tallies say, between 200,000 and 300,000 passengers could be abandoned over Christmas.
A bit exgagerated me thinks...

Yup, remove two zeros ! I heard 2000 stranded in latin america.

Post by **ElcoB** » 18 Dec 2006, 13:57

The management will ask Civil Aviation to return the company's flying licence with the goal of restarting its activity at the end of the week.

A group of Air Madrid workers, headed by the manager, Pablo Morera, are prepare to take charge of the company so it can fly again next Thursday or Friday at the latest.

To achieve this, Morera will present a viability plan to the Ministry of Infrastructure with the objective that Civil Aviation returns their flight licence. The proposed solution involves the single shareholder of the airline, the hotel owner José Luis Carrillo, transferring the ownership to the employees, and a managing group taking charge of the refloating of the company. Morera claims Carrillo agrees with the plan, although the latter still hasn't made his opinion public.

On the other hand, the pilot union SEPLA has called its members in the company to a meeting to discuss their work situation. And the company has done the same with all the workers.

El Pais: Los empleados de Air Madrid presentarán hoy un plan de viabilidad para hacerse cargo de la compañía (18/12/2006)

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 18 Dec 2006, 18:08

ElcoB wrote:The proposed solution involves the single shareholder of the airline, the hotel owner José Luis Carrillo, transferring the ownership to the employees, and a managing group taking charge of the refloating of the company.

Same problems.
Same people.
imho, all depends from the financial managing group.
As I said maintenance is usually a financial problem.
A hotel can skip a maintenance, but not a airplane.

Koenie666 · Post by **Koenie666** » 18 Dec 2006, 18:35

Can't it also be a schedule problem?

Too many flights for a too small fleet?

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 18 Dec 2006, 20:14

Koenie666 wrote:Can't it also be a schedule problem?
Too many flights for a too small fleet?

Then Ba has a problem too?
Too tight schedules, no time for maintenance, is it that what you think, Koenie666?
Maintenance is a matter of programming. A fleet of just over 11 years of average age, should not earn technical problems unless it is not maintained well.
But lets wait and see what the managing group comes up with. It's technics and finance, meaning there are parameters. If they are profesionals, they can read the parameters.

Koenie666 · Post by **Koenie666** » 18 Dec 2006, 21:02

Well if I remember correctly.. a serious maintenance problem is indeed difficult for SN... but they are fast enough to lease a 767... remember.. africa... A330... hmmm

Anyway.. i was just suggesting something.. I will in the future refrain from commenting.... as you are so welcoming...

A318 · Post by **A318** » 18 Dec 2006, 22:44

Koenie666 wrote:Can't it also be a schedule problem?

Too many flights for a too small fleet?

No that wasn't the issue.
Main problem was that 3 airplanes were AOG and Air Madrid refused to cancel flights, this brought the problems and huge delays.
If they should have cancelled flights to fly the schedule which was possible the other issues had never happened.
All other planes were up in the air without to less time for small maintenance, this is where the governement blamed Air Madrid for.
Panels inside that were not closing correctly, hand rests that were holded together with tape and those kind of things.
Maintenance to keep them air worthy were done (think about tires, engines etc).
Anyway no reaction yet from Air Madrid

Greetz,

Erwin

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 18 Dec 2006, 23:02

A318 wrote:
Koenie666 wrote:Can't it also be a schedule problem?
Too many flights for a too small fleet?
No that wasn't the issue.
Main problem was that 3 airplanes were AOG and Air Madrid refused to cancel flights, this brought the problems and huge delays.
Anyway no reaction yet from Air Madrid
Greetz, Erwin

Erwin, I think Koenie666 is right when he says that it was a schedule problem:
Too many flights
No time time for maintenance.
Too much work for not enough aircraft.
The new management team will have to review the maintenance program, imho. They have the parameters, they can work a better schedule out.
What do you think?
Anyway no reaction yet from Air Madrid
They aren't sleeping, they are reviewing... they need time.

asturex · Post by **asturex** » 19 Dec 2006, 10:36

According to the Spanish press, one reason why Air Madrid suffered frequent delays was that their published flight times were different from their actual take-off slot times. So flights were more attractive and easier to sell, but a delay was inevitable.

According to the Spanish press yesterday, Air Madrid were never fined for this dishonest practice whereas Vueling who carried out the same dishonest practice were fined over 1 million euros by the Spanish government.

The implication of the article is that Air Madrid were treated with 'kid gloves' by the Spanish regulators. To treat them this way did no one any favours however. In the end, it just meant that the inevitable was postponed and was much more devastating when in did arrive.

The big questions now do not surround Air Madrid, it is history. The big questions surround the Spanish aviation authorities ('Ministerio de Fomento') and how rigorously they have been performing their job.

Personally, I don't mind flying with a second tier (small / undercapitalised / old fleet) airlines provided I know they're properly regulated. Until my confidence is restored in the Spanish regulators however I will be sticking well capitalised and well regulated airlines like Ryanair, Easyjet and Air Berlin, that buy their aircraft mainly new.

Post by **sn26567** » 19 Dec 2006, 11:06

Thanks for this enlightening comments, asturex

I am surprised at the difference of treatment between Air Madrid and Vueling.

Koenie666 · Post by **Koenie666** » 19 Dec 2006, 12:13

Is this a responsability of the state or of aena (offcourse state owned)?

Aviation24.be

bye bye Air Madrid

A350?

Re: Between 200,000 and 300,000 passengers abandoned?

Teveel hooi op de MN-vork.

Have Spanish aviation authorities been doing their job?