I thought UPS would cancel if anyone did. They are very deeply established with 747, and have 8 747-400s on order. The 747-8 would slot seamlessly into their operation, and not to fare below the bulk capacity of the A380.
FedEx does not run 747 at all (except peak charter). The 777 is a great airplane (more like a MD11 on steroids), but it does not have the bulk capacity of the A380. That was supposedly needed for the Asia to Anchorage run, as well as onto Memphis (the rest would get broken up and send to various destinations).
So, speculation is that it fit the system ok, but the reason it was bought was they got a bargain on it. The bargain no longer being a bargain, back to Plan B (for Boeing, Plan A would be Airbus of course!). I know they have been looking at 777 for some time.
FedEx put a whole lot of money into the A380 though (two simulators on order) as well as infrastructure in Anchorage, Memphis and ??? The 777 does not seem to meet the bulk requirements, so, question is, do they have the slots to run multiples of them as needed? They did get all those routes when they absorbed Flying Tigers (and what a steal that was). Maybe 747-8 in the works as well.
Also, while its 10 firm orders canceled, that’s also 10 options that Airbus could have counted on to get to the 500 level (plus or minus depending doing the calculations) to break even. So its really a 20 aircraft blow, not just 10.
As UPS is the only other major customer how now brown cow.
The reason the freighter is behind 2 years along with the rest, it was not slotted for construction (actually design is not finalized yet, which is what Emirate citeded for reason to cancel the freighter, though the converted to Pax)
While freighter design not finalized, it was co-intended to be both freighter and pax from get go, so if UPS cancels that’s probably it for the freighter, and likely the whole thing (that would be another 20 order loss in totall).
FEDEX cancels 10 x A380F order
Moderator: Latest news team
Im glad this thread has moved to a new page, the previous page took to much effort to read.
Im not so sure UPS will cancel. Maybe Airbus will sweeten the deal for UPS now that FedEx has cancelled inorder to keep the A380F alive.
Im not so sure UPS will cancel. Maybe Airbus will sweeten the deal for UPS now that FedEx has cancelled inorder to keep the A380F alive.
Theres nothing better than slow cooked fall off the bone BBQ, Texas style
AGREED. I want this bird to fly and hope to fly on it, SOON!!smacDC-10 wrote:Perhaps Airbus could concentrate on the freighter while it works out the bugs with it's wiring. Unless there are other problems unknown to the public. The A380's capacity cannot be beat in the marketplace. I really hope Airbus doesn't lose anymore orders, not a good situation.
Theres nothing better than slow cooked fall off the bone BBQ, Texas style
With this situation it wont' be surprising if they delay the A380F for some years while getting the A380 wiring problems fixed, and then come out with a A380F later on that is better and bigger (perhaps between the current A388 and the future A389?)..
The pax version though, MUST enter service as soon as possible. Once when the A380 goes into normal production will Airbus come back alive.
The pax version though, MUST enter service as soon as possible. Once when the A380 goes into normal production will Airbus come back alive.
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smokejumper
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Such compensation of course digs the program even deeper in debt.
I am wondering if Airbus decided to shift engineers from the freighter to the pax version to speed it up. They had talked earlier this year about shifting resources to get back on schedule. If so, then they would have had to inform Fedex and UPS about a further delay (without a public announcement). Fedex becomes Fed-Up and cancels?
Not trying to spread rumors. Just speculating.
I am wondering if Airbus decided to shift engineers from the freighter to the pax version to speed it up. They had talked earlier this year about shifting resources to get back on schedule. If so, then they would have had to inform Fedex and UPS about a further delay (without a public announcement). Fedex becomes Fed-Up and cancels?
Not trying to spread rumors. Just speculating.
By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly an airplane?
One should not forget that the cost of the plane is no longer the issue, Airbus could give them away, and still they would get cancellations.
The carriers need aircraft that are economical, available, and of a capacity required to meet their current and future needs, and they need them now! in the case of FedEx and quite likely UPS they can't wait two or three years, they have made promises to their customers, plans for route expansion, etc,etc,etc. time is money, and it waits for no one.
No one should be surprised about cancellations, or deferrals, this is business, and they can't wait forever.
The carriers need aircraft that are economical, available, and of a capacity required to meet their current and future needs, and they need them now! in the case of FedEx and quite likely UPS they can't wait two or three years, they have made promises to their customers, plans for route expansion, etc,etc,etc. time is money, and it waits for no one.
No one should be surprised about cancellations, or deferrals, this is business, and they can't wait forever.
There are no strangers in the world, just friends we have yet to meet.
Agree but if they thought they needed A380 capacity, they still need it, and what would be normally done is to, like QF, have some A332s to fill the gap and EK getting 773ERs to fill the delay..bits44 wrote:One should not forget that the cost of the plane is no longer the issue, Airbus could give them away, and still they would get cancellations.
The carriers need aircraft that are economical, available, and of a capacity required to meet their current and future needs, and they need them now! in the case of FedEx and quite likely UPS they can't wait two or three years, they have made promises to their customers, plans for route expansion, etc,etc,etc. time is money, and it waits for no one.
No one should be surprised about cancellations, or deferrals, this is business, and they can't wait forever.
So let's say if FedEx was to receive its A380Fs around now, would they still want them?
I'm sure that if these delays had not occured every single carrier would have their cheque books ready to sign off on delivery! but that has not occured, and being astute business people they have made contingency plans. The really bad part of all this is the workers and suppliers will suffer the consequences, along with all the investors in those companies.
Reading the contents of this article, Airbus may have already resigned themselves to the cancellation of the Freighter side of the business.
http://tinyurl.com/ymk34u
Its really sad to see all this happening, so many good people are suffering now, and will continue to suffer as all this unravels. It's a very gloomy day in Aviation.
KT
Reading the contents of this article, Airbus may have already resigned themselves to the cancellation of the Freighter side of the business.
http://tinyurl.com/ymk34u
Its really sad to see all this happening, so many good people are suffering now, and will continue to suffer as all this unravels. It's a very gloomy day in Aviation.
KT
There are no strangers in the world, just friends we have yet to meet.
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smokejumper
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Perhaps in units, but the freighter is a distinct model that offers future sales growth potential. If the frieghter version is abandoned, Airbus will forsake this market to Boeing.smacDC-10 wrote:I agree, very sad! But, the Quantas purchase makes up for what FedEx cancelled.
A freighter is a special design in itself, not just a stripped passenger version.
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smokejumper
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- Joined: 21 Oct 2005, 00:00
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Yes and obviously Qantas got one of the best deals ever!
Which other airlines are potential A380 customers? If they order now they'll probably get excellent deals and probably receive cheap A330s to cover immediate needs..
And i just think the guy who said "the A380 should never been born" in the article.. 5 years ago i don't remember people saying anything similar, and of course the hike in oil prices means that planes like the A350/787 is more attractive, but who the heck knew oil prices would have such trend when Airbus started developing the A380?
Which other airlines are potential A380 customers? If they order now they'll probably get excellent deals and probably receive cheap A330s to cover immediate needs..
And i just think the guy who said "the A380 should never been born" in the article.. 5 years ago i don't remember people saying anything similar, and of course the hike in oil prices means that planes like the A350/787 is more attractive, but who the heck knew oil prices would have such trend when Airbus started developing the A380?
I don't think new customers of the 380 will get great deals, just good deals. The airlines with existing orders are only getting great deals as part of the late penalties. Airbus still has to reach 420 planes to break even. Steep discounts would only increase that threshold.
And buying interim airplanes isn't that great either. The good news? They are getting greal deals on buying interim airplanes. The bad news? They have to BUY interim airplanes. When it's time to sell those 330's because your 380's are ready, the resale value of 330's isn't going to be great. Why? The 787 will already be flying and everyone wants those instead. There might even be a lot of 787's around if there is a second production line.
There's just no way to put a positive spin on this. The delays will hurt Airbus and its customers.
And buying interim airplanes isn't that great either. The good news? They are getting greal deals on buying interim airplanes. The bad news? They have to BUY interim airplanes. When it's time to sell those 330's because your 380's are ready, the resale value of 330's isn't going to be great. Why? The 787 will already be flying and everyone wants those instead. There might even be a lot of 787's around if there is a second production line.
There's just no way to put a positive spin on this. The delays will hurt Airbus and its customers.
By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly an airplane?
UPS has filled the gap in the mean time while they wait for their A380's. They, as everyone knows have order a few 744F, and if I'm right, the 748F. If FedEx was to receive its A380 today, they would get it. The size of the plane gives FedEx an advantage in freighter capacity than any other freighter plane.CX wrote:Agree but if they thought they needed A380 capacity, they still need it, and what would be normally done is to, like QF, have some A332s to fill the gap and EK getting 773ERs to fill the delay..bits44 wrote:One should not forget that the cost of the plane is no longer the issue, Airbus could give them away, and still they would get cancellations.
The carriers need aircraft that are economical, available, and of a capacity required to meet their current and future needs, and they need them now! in the case of FedEx and quite likely UPS they can't wait two or three years, they have made promises to their customers, plans for route expansion, etc,etc,etc. time is money, and it waits for no one.
No one should be surprised about cancellations, or deferrals, this is business, and they can't wait forever.
So let's say if FedEx was to receive its A380Fs around now, would they still want them?
I have been trying to research the various comparisons of the large freighters (new build).
It looks like the 777 for FedEx is just what it seemed, an MD11 on steroids. Advantage of better fuel burn (by a lot), and more main can potions (37). Total lift capacity is close to the same. Frankly, its more a logical step up on those routes where they are having to run two MD11s (or an MD11 and MD10).
The A380 offered 54 large can (AMJ) positions, and that does not account for belly cargo. 150 ton life versus the 103 for the 777F.
It still looks like they need an 747-8 or A380 class aircraft for the slot constrained airports (that would be China particularly, as they do not have the Flying Tiger rights they had everywhere else).
At some point UPS has to decide if its worth the investment, or better to go with commonality with its current and order 747s.
Pretty condemning when you are offering great deals, and no one is buying. That means it just does not fit.
It was mentioned that they still have to sell 420. That’s the Airbus figure (you can bet its low), I have seen as high as 520 (and keep in mind, the more they have to sell at discount, becomes a wash, as the number to sell keeps going up).
It looks like the 777 for FedEx is just what it seemed, an MD11 on steroids. Advantage of better fuel burn (by a lot), and more main can potions (37). Total lift capacity is close to the same. Frankly, its more a logical step up on those routes where they are having to run two MD11s (or an MD11 and MD10).
The A380 offered 54 large can (AMJ) positions, and that does not account for belly cargo. 150 ton life versus the 103 for the 777F.
It still looks like they need an 747-8 or A380 class aircraft for the slot constrained airports (that would be China particularly, as they do not have the Flying Tiger rights they had everywhere else).
At some point UPS has to decide if its worth the investment, or better to go with commonality with its current and order 747s.
Pretty condemning when you are offering great deals, and no one is buying. That means it just does not fit.
It was mentioned that they still have to sell 420. That’s the Airbus figure (you can bet its low), I have seen as high as 520 (and keep in mind, the more they have to sell at discount, becomes a wash, as the number to sell keeps going up).
A possible cancel of A380 order
After Fedex maybe Thai Airways will be the next customer to cancel its order of A380s.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6157498.stm
Maybe they just want to put some pressure on Airbus, why do they want to cancel while they can lease some planes to fullfil their plan and wait for A380 coming? They cannot switch to B747I right? Since delivery of B747I is even later than the delayed A380.
Have a good day
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6157498.stm
Maybe they just want to put some pressure on Airbus, why do they want to cancel while they can lease some planes to fullfil their plan and wait for A380 coming? They cannot switch to B747I right? Since delivery of B747I is even later than the delayed A380.
Have a good day