Qatar Airways confirms Boeing order.

David747 · Post by **David747** » 12 Sep 2006, 05:35

Of course, tomorrow Qatar Airways will unconfirm the order and say it is still in negotations with Boeing. I have to say this has been the weirdest episode I have seen in a long time.

http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Displa ... 123265.xml

CX · Post by CX » 12 Sep 2006, 12:02

Bad news for Airbus..

bits44 · Post by **bits44** » 12 Sep 2006, 13:28

actually the order has been on Boeings website as unidentified for some time, it never was cancelled, just some political manouvering going on.

KT

teach · Post by **teach** » 12 Sep 2006, 14:27

Bad news for Airbus..

I don't see how. This order had been known about for well over a year now, so there's really nothing new, it's just the previous deal being firmed up.

The biggest news in this article is this:

Speaking on the much-debated order for Airbus A350s, he said: “Our order still stands. We are very committed to Airbus.”

After all the debate of QR not being happy with the later delivery of the new A350XWB, this clearly indicates they have changed their minds.

cageyjames · Post by **cageyjames** » 12 Sep 2006, 18:44

Mulally gets "kicked out" and then the order becomes "final".

As I said, getting rid of Mulally was the best thing for Boeing.

David747 · Post by **David747** » 13 Sep 2006, 02:06

I still don't understand what happened at Farnborough that basically led Qatar to dealy this announcement until now.(don't bring up politics

)

TexasGuy · Post by **TexasGuy** » 13 Sep 2006, 03:15

David747 wrote:I still don't understand what happened at Farnborough that basically led Qatar to dealy this announcement until now.(don't bring up politics )

Yes, i think that is a bit of a mystery!

CX · Post by CX » 13 Sep 2006, 13:05

teach wrote:
Bad news for Airbus..
I don't see how. This order had been known about for well over a year now, so there's really nothing new, it's just the previous deal being firmed up.

The biggest news in this article is this:

Speaking on the much-debated order for Airbus A350s, he said: “Our order still stands. We are very committed to Airbus.”
After all the debate of QR not being happy with the later delivery of the new A350XWB, this clearly indicates they have changed their minds.

Hope they'll stick to their massive 60 A350 order..

smokejumper · Post by **smokejumper** » 13 Sep 2006, 15:00

cageyjames wrote:Mulally gets "kicked out" and then the order becomes "final".

As I said, getting rid of Mulally was the best thing for Boeing.

Mulally did not get "kicked out". Rather he had a spledid opportunity to become CEO of a global company. It has been my impression that Mulally did a good job at Boeing. He cut costs, gave the marketing department the flexibility to negotiate with airlines (without seeking Board approval), initiated and pushed new aircraft development (787, 777LR), restored moral on the factory floor and within management, restored profits under his watch, etc. Sure, all efforts were not spectacularly successful, but he did a good job.

cageyjames · Post by **cageyjames** » 13 Sep 2006, 15:04

smokejumper wrote:Mulally did not get "kicked out". Rather he had a spledid opportunity to become CEO of a global company. It has been my impression that Mulally did a good job at Boeing.

OK "kicked out" is probably not accurate. He wasn't going to get promoted to the top Boeing job.

As I said in the thread about his move, he went as far as he could go and started to run into trouble (The Qatar deal/747-8) and it was time for a change. I don't thing Boeing could fire him since they were doing pretty well, but they sure as heck weren't going to promote him.

The worst thing for Airbus is a focused Boeing and that isn't something Mullally was able to do.

RC20 · Post by **RC20** » 14 Sep 2006, 07:54

cageyjames wrote:
smokejumper wrote:Mulally did not get "kicked out". Rather he had a spledid opportunity to become CEO of a global company. It has been my impression that Mulally did a good job at Boeing.
OK "kicked out" is probably not accurate. He wasn't going to get promoted to the top Boeing job.

As I said in the thread about his move, he went as far as he could go and started to run into trouble (The Qatar deal/747-8) and it was time for a change. I don't thing Boeing could fire him since they were doing pretty well, but they sure as heck weren't going to promote him.

The worst thing for Airbus is a focused Boeing and that isn't something Mullally was able to do.

Really, who is giving Airbus fits? No logic to that last statement

Time for change is management speak for axing someone.

Boeing board decided to go outside the company (bad taste from Condit and Stonecipher). I think they were wrong, but that was their decision.

So, it was not time for a change, Mulally put in for the head Boeing job, and I have to think he felt he could do a good one. The board did not agree. That does not mean they were right (nor wrong to do the way they did), It just is and time will tell on the direction they went. I like Harry, because he was brassily combative. I think Boeing needed to get that back.

He still wanted to lead a global company, so he has moved to Ford. Again, time will tell, but I think Ford got a hell of a deal.

Keep in mind, each time Mulally moved up, he left a fully operational team and situation behind, and he was very uccessfully in the next position.

I know how hard that can be on a local level. I am not a manager and never will be, and I admire someone who started out at a technical level, and developed the people and management skills to move far higher into the organization.

He left Boeing in excellent shape, and a future path to follow, that is a real legacy.

bits44 · Post by **bits44** » 24 Sep 2006, 05:01

Qatar has increased its order of 777's by 20:

http://www.itp.net/business/news/detail ... &category=

TexasGuy · Post by **TexasGuy** » 24 Sep 2006, 05:35

Wow, the plot thickens. 40 Boeing 777's are a lot of airplanes. I wonder which routes they are planing to use these on.

teach · Post by **teach** » 24 Sep 2006, 10:54

Qatar has increased its order of 777's by 20:

No it hasn't. From the article:

“We placed a firm order for the first 20, but we are planning to buy 40 all together,”

That's management talk for 'we ordered 20 and took 20 more options.'

David747 · Post by **David747** » 24 Sep 2006, 11:42

They want options for 20 more, wonder what routes they would use them on if they firm that option or place a new order for 20 777...

bits44 · Post by **bits44** » 24 Sep 2006, 18:55

I would think that Qatar like any airline is protecting its future interests, They and others have made plans years into the future to ensure they have sufficient aircraft of the right type.

It is a wise business decision to ensure that happens in a predictable manner, and with the uncertaintity surrounding their orders they must ensure that their plans are carried out in a timely manner.

I have no doubt other Airlines will be introducing the same strategy, they all stand to lose enormous amounts of money if they don't protect their interests.

They have also leased some Airbus 320's and 321's
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=2484210

RC20 · Post by **RC20** » 24 Sep 2006, 20:41

Keep in mind that they do not have a huge order of A380s.

A while back, JAL removed a 747-400 from its Japan to Europe route (London I think, but I misremember) and while they lost a bit of revenue on that flight, the 777 they replaced it with increased revenue overall by quite a bit.

From my perspective, I have always wondered why Alaska Airlines (who runs a lot of flight from Anchorage to Seattle) did not order a couple of wide-bodied to get those pax there (at times there are four 737s leaving within 30 minutes of each other).

Upshot seems to be, that flexibility generates more revenue than aircraft that can only run one route, regardless of load factors.

It would seem that having more pilots, flight crew etc would belie that, but it does not seem to. So, what seems logical is not. My guess is that once they hit Seattle, they can go onto other destinations (that the wide body would not work on), and or turn around and head back with a revenue load before the wide body could (far better aircraft utilization).

Qatar may have the better model.

TexasGuy · Post by **TexasGuy** » 25 Sep 2006, 02:10

RC20 wrote:Keep in mind that they do not have a huge order of A380s.

From my perspective, I have always wondered why Alaska Airlines (who runs a lot of flight from Anchorage to Seattle) did not order a couple of wide-bodied to get those pax there (at times there are four 737s leaving within 30 minutes of each other).

I think the reason they do it the way they do it is because of competition. They have some competition on that route. They can beat the competition by having multiple flights and departure times. Same way Continental does from Houston and American from Dallas between big city pairs etc etc.

DFW · Post by **DFW** » 25 Sep 2006, 05:02

Taking 20 options could be Qatar's way of telling Airbus, "If you're late with the A350, we'll buy more 777's and cut back on the A350's."

CX · Post by CX » 25 Sep 2006, 07:49

DFW wrote:Taking 20 options could be Qatar's way of telling Airbus, "If you're late with the A350, we'll buy more 777's and cut back on the A350's."

I guess all existing A350 orders will be confirmed by the end of October after the industrial launch of the model. I wouldn't be surprised if they do cut their A350 order by 20 because the A350 is 2years late. I hope they won't though.