Actually London Gatwick is one of the largest low-cost aviation centres in the world. It has now eclisped both London Luton and London Stansted as the main base of EasyJet. And if TransPacific routes have more demand then how come there are fewer flights between Hong Kong and Los Angeles or San Francisco than between Hong Kong and London? And why is Oasis choosing to start with London?CXRules wrote:I think Oasis will find more success at OAK than LGW as OAK is the low-cost carriers heaven and transpacific routes have higher demand.
Oasis Airlines opens booking - London to Hong Kong for £260!
Moderator: Latest news team
Well, you can't simply pointing to the frequencies between HKG and London to conclude that transpacific has less demand than European routes. London is unique because, obviously, Hong Kong was a former British colony, and it still has a lot of ties with London/UK in many ways. Outside of London, European trips are not as popular comparing to North America, where many many Hong Kongers migrated to before 1997. Also, transpacific routes have more competitions. From HKG (nonstop or 1 stop), you can choose Cathay, NWA, United, Continental, China Airlines, JAL, ANA, Korean Air, Air Canada, Singapore Airlines, Asiana, Eva Air, even mainland Chinese carriers if you like, with Oasis joining that list soon. In addition, these airlines offer many options and choices in destinations and time (frequencies).
For Oasis case, London, as a unique city like I mentioned earlier, is a natural choice for the first destination. Oakland, on the other hand, located in the Bay Area, and it can serve the many Chinese people living in San Francisco, Oakland, and San Jose, as well as other people in the area looking to travel to HK for leisure or business. With only a daily flight for CX and UA each between HKG and SFO, the Bay Area is somewhat underserve for flying non-stop. Oasis can come in with cheaper tickets and offering non-stop services that can beat the other airlines requiring one stop for sure. OAK would love to have their first transpacific route.
For Oasis case, London, as a unique city like I mentioned earlier, is a natural choice for the first destination. Oakland, on the other hand, located in the Bay Area, and it can serve the many Chinese people living in San Francisco, Oakland, and San Jose, as well as other people in the area looking to travel to HK for leisure or business. With only a daily flight for CX and UA each between HKG and SFO, the Bay Area is somewhat underserve for flying non-stop. Oasis can come in with cheaper tickets and offering non-stop services that can beat the other airlines requiring one stop for sure. OAK would love to have their first transpacific route.
^ I agree that London/Britain's link to Hong Kong is unique in Europe. However if we added up the total number of non-stop flights between Hong Kong and Europe I think it would probably outnumber those between Hong Kong and North America. And of course non-stop doesn't factor in the impact that one-stop Middle Eastern carriers such as Emirates, Qatar, Gulf Air, Turkish Airlines etc have had on the market between Europe and E/SE Asia. You are right that more Hong Kongers have emigrated to Canada and the US than Europe but then Hong Kong is also a business hub for the region and Europe conducts more trade with China and SE Asia than the US and Canada combined. Oasis is planning to open a total of four European destinations (London, Berlin, Milan, Cologne/Bonn) compared to just two in the US (Oakland and Chicago). It seems that their own analysis finds greater opportunities in Europe than North America.
Yes, an airlines needs 24h to rotate an aircraft HKG-LON. And cannot do that from HKG to the States or Canada.Mercutio wrote:^ I agree that London/Britain's link to Hong Kong is unique in Europe.
HKG-YVR is shorter than HKG-SFO
But NYC from HKG via the Pacific is much shorter than via LON or any Atlantic route.
^ Yes of course New York to Hong Kong is faster via the Pacific than via Europe. No-one is disputing that. That's simple geography. I don't suppose anyone would travel between North America and Hong Kong via Europe. It's simply too slow. But that was never my argument. I'm arguing that the demand to/from Europe itself seems to be as large or larger than the demand to/from North America.
That's why the fare via the Atlantic might be lower, Mercutio. More demand = more frequencies = bigger volumes = better cost structure = better competitive position of the carrier? That's why the public might choose the A-route.Mercutio wrote:I don't suppose anyone would travel between North America and Hong Kong via Europe. It's simply too slow. But that was never my argument. I'm arguing that the demand to/from Europe itself seems to be as large or larger than the demand to/from North America.
I am really not following you here. No-one has been talking about travelling to Hong Kong via the Atlantic. Where did you get that from? From Europe you fly over Russia to Hong Kong. From America you fly over the the Pacific to Hong Kong. No-one flies there over the Atlantic so what has the Atlantic go to do with anything?SN30952 wrote:That's why the fare via the Atlantic might be lower, Mercutio. More demand = more frequencies = bigger volumes = better cost structure = better competitive position of the carrier? That's why the public might choose the A-route.Mercutio wrote:I don't suppose anyone would travel between North America and Hong Kong via Europe. It's simply too slow. But that was never my argument. I'm arguing that the demand to/from Europe itself seems to be as large or larger than the demand to/from North America.
Airlines are like elevators: they take people up and people down....Mercutio wrote:I am really not following you here. No-one has been talking about travelling to Hong Kong via the Atlantic. Where did you get that from? From Europe you fly over Russia to Hong Kong. From America you fly over the the Pacific to Hong Kong. No-one flies there over the Atlantic so what has the Atlantic go to do with anything?
The asian market is largely price driven: so going to N.America the Asians will go for the lowest price, not the shortest triptime.
Not all trips start in the West! More and more trips start in the East.
Airlines are not flying one way: As Victoria Airlines (see news) wrote this week: "and back"
Putting Oasis back to back to LCC in LON, and
Putting Oasis back to back with LCC in HKG, passengers will construct cheaper budget travel all over Europe, N.America and Asia and Oceania!
Example: LON-HKG-SYD is undercut by adding a Oasis and a Jetstar* ticket. Get an idea how people see that on the other side.
Look that up as "Jet sta"
^ Sorry but I'm still completely confused. You still haven't told me why you were talking about the Atlantic route (??) a few posts ago. No-one will find it cheaper to travel between any part of the US and Hong Kong via the Atlantic! I also fail to see what relevance Jetstar has to any of this given that Jetstar doesn't fly between Hong Kong and North America or between Hong Kong and Europe. The fact that Asians are travelling more is also completely irrelevant. It doesn't support any of your arguments or defeat any of mine. Forgive me for sounding harsh but you appear to be farting....
New York Times article:
Low Cost Long Haul Flights
Following the phenomenal success of no-frills, low-cost airlines in North America, Europe and the Asia-Pacific region, we are now seeing the emergence of budget airlines operating on international long-haul routes.
For instance, Zoom Airlines ([url]http://www.flyzoom.com)[/url], a Canadian carrier, operates low-cost service from eight Canadian cities to London (Gatwick), Glasgow, Manchester, Cardiff and Belfast in Britain, and Paris. Zoom operates Boeing 767-300’s with 268 seats. Economy passengers get a 31-inch seat pitch and meals and drinks; premium economy offers 36 inches of legroom and an extra baggage allowance. A search recently turned up round-trip fares between London and Toronto this month starting at $205 in economy, $355 in premium economy.
Air Sahara ([url]http://www.airsahara.net)[/url], based in New Delhi, operates a network of services within the subcontinent and between Delhi and London, and Delhi and Singapore. One-way fares from London (Heathrow) to Delhi start at around $235. Beginning in October, the start-up budget carrier Oasis Hong Kong Airlines (http://www.oasis-air.com) will operate Boeing 747-400’s, with seat-back entertainment and hot meals, though passengers can order a “gourmet food service” at extra cost. Oasis has announced one-way fares between London (Gatwick) and Hong Kong from $141 plus tax. It plans to add service between Hong Kong and Milan, Berlin, Cologne/Bonn and Oakland and Chicago.
The Scottish airline Flyglobespan (http://www.flyglobespan.com) operates a fleet that includes Boeing 767-300 aircraft with three classes: no-frills economy with a 30-inch seat pitch (you must buy your own meals and drinks); premium economy with a 34-inch pitch and full meals and drinks service; and business, with 50-inch sleeper seats. The airline operates from Glasgow, Edinburgh and London to more than a dozen European cities, and to Orlando, Fla.; additional routes will be offered this winter. One-way fares from Glasgow to Orlando this month start at about $280; premium economy, $385.
Icelandair ([url]http://www.icelandair.com)[/url], a forerunner of cheap trans-Atlantic flights, offers flights between Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Frankfurt, Glasgow, London, Oslo, Paris, and Stockholm (via Reykjavik) and Baltimore/Washington, Boston, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Orlando and New York, with full service at low-cost fares (along with seven other cities in summer only). A recent search for dates this month from New York to London found rates from $762.
Low Cost Long Haul Flights
Following the phenomenal success of no-frills, low-cost airlines in North America, Europe and the Asia-Pacific region, we are now seeing the emergence of budget airlines operating on international long-haul routes.
For instance, Zoom Airlines ([url]http://www.flyzoom.com)[/url], a Canadian carrier, operates low-cost service from eight Canadian cities to London (Gatwick), Glasgow, Manchester, Cardiff and Belfast in Britain, and Paris. Zoom operates Boeing 767-300’s with 268 seats. Economy passengers get a 31-inch seat pitch and meals and drinks; premium economy offers 36 inches of legroom and an extra baggage allowance. A search recently turned up round-trip fares between London and Toronto this month starting at $205 in economy, $355 in premium economy.
Air Sahara ([url]http://www.airsahara.net)[/url], based in New Delhi, operates a network of services within the subcontinent and between Delhi and London, and Delhi and Singapore. One-way fares from London (Heathrow) to Delhi start at around $235. Beginning in October, the start-up budget carrier Oasis Hong Kong Airlines (http://www.oasis-air.com) will operate Boeing 747-400’s, with seat-back entertainment and hot meals, though passengers can order a “gourmet food service” at extra cost. Oasis has announced one-way fares between London (Gatwick) and Hong Kong from $141 plus tax. It plans to add service between Hong Kong and Milan, Berlin, Cologne/Bonn and Oakland and Chicago.
The Scottish airline Flyglobespan (http://www.flyglobespan.com) operates a fleet that includes Boeing 767-300 aircraft with three classes: no-frills economy with a 30-inch seat pitch (you must buy your own meals and drinks); premium economy with a 34-inch pitch and full meals and drinks service; and business, with 50-inch sleeper seats. The airline operates from Glasgow, Edinburgh and London to more than a dozen European cities, and to Orlando, Fla.; additional routes will be offered this winter. One-way fares from Glasgow to Orlando this month start at about $280; premium economy, $385.
Icelandair ([url]http://www.icelandair.com)[/url], a forerunner of cheap trans-Atlantic flights, offers flights between Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Frankfurt, Glasgow, London, Oslo, Paris, and Stockholm (via Reykjavik) and Baltimore/Washington, Boston, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Orlando and New York, with full service at low-cost fares (along with seven other cities in summer only). A recent search for dates this month from New York to London found rates from $762.
Re: not too keen on the name
I thought it meant plain support, never heard anyone use it for hospitality lumped with anything else.SN30952 wrote:Sahara means 'desert' in Arabic.
Then you've got Air Sahara. "The Hindi/Urdu word sahara means something like hospitality, help, and solicitousness all lumped together."
imho, one is better of in Hindi/Urdu sahara than in the Sahel Sahara?
TO Mercutio
There are too many things to factor in if you want to know if the demand for flights to Europe is more than for those to North America.
You are very right about the impact ME carriers have had on the market. I recently flew DOH to MAN and I could swear over 90% of the passengers had connected from S/SE/E Aisa. But then you also have a lot of people travelling from Europe via Hong Kong to Australia, NZ and Taiwan.
There are all these things to consider, but I do think the ex-Hong Kong traffic to N America exceeds traffic to Europe. I could be wrong, maybe Cathay or HKTA would be the right people to ask.
Oh crikey - not again! I already had problems with EasyJet in Turkey. I booked flights only for them to be cancelled because EasyJet hadn't yet gotten permission to fly the route from the Turkish authorities. They said they would refund the cost of my alternative flights with Turkish Airlines but so far they have only refunded the cost of their own tickets. The problem with Hong Kong is that I have already booked onward flights to the Philippines from Hong Kong with another airline (Tiger Airways from nearby Macau).CXRules wrote:If you bought ticket on Oasis, be aware!
http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_deta ... con_type=1
They got their AOC on time: 
Oasis Airlines gets certificate five days before first flight
21 October 2006
South China Morning Post
Hong Kong Oasis Airlines, the city's and possibly the world's first long-haul budget airline, yesterday received its air operator's certificate from the aviation department just five days before the carrier is scheduled to start flights to London.
It is the first certificate issued by Hong Kong to an inter-continental carrier in 60 years. The last such certificate went to Cathay Pacific Airways.
"It is quite a milestone to start as a long-haul carrier," Oasis chief executive Stephen Miller said yesterday. "I've always believed in the long haul. It's much more productive, efficient and easier to manage but perception-wise the entry barrier is probably higher."
From Wednesday, Oasis will fly to London's Gatwick Airport four times a week.
The company, owned by real estate entrepreneur Raymond Lee Cho-min, is selling one-way economy tickets from HK$1,000 and business class seats from HK$6,600 before taxes and surcharges.
The Oasis fleet consists of two Boeing 747-400 aircraft it bought from Singapore Airlines and refitted at a cost of US$100 million.
The company plans to add a US route in the first quarter of next year, flying several times a week to Oakland, California. To do so it will need to expand its fleet and has yet to finalise arrangements with providers.
"Obviously we need more aircraft," Mr Miller said. "We are sourcing aircraft now."
Oasis originally planned to start flights to Europe and the US a year ago. Its initial application to the Air Transport Licensing Authority was blocked for several months last year by objections from rival local operators including Cathay.
Subsequent difficulties in sourcing aircraft forced further delays.
More recently, local press reports said Oasis was having trouble securing its air operator's certificate, which involves detailed inspections and safety certifications.
Mr Miller, who rejected those reports, this week said the company had sold a relatively modest 16,000 tickets on scheduled London flights up to March.
"Some people don't like to risk HK$1,000," he said, citing negative media reports. "We expect quite a big take up once the news gets out that we have our operator's certificate."
Oasis becomes Hong Kong's fifth commercial airline. Mr Lee last month said the company would eventually seek to list in Hong Kong to help drive expansion.
Oasis Airlines gets certificate five days before first flight
21 October 2006
South China Morning Post
Hong Kong Oasis Airlines, the city's and possibly the world's first long-haul budget airline, yesterday received its air operator's certificate from the aviation department just five days before the carrier is scheduled to start flights to London.
It is the first certificate issued by Hong Kong to an inter-continental carrier in 60 years. The last such certificate went to Cathay Pacific Airways.
"It is quite a milestone to start as a long-haul carrier," Oasis chief executive Stephen Miller said yesterday. "I've always believed in the long haul. It's much more productive, efficient and easier to manage but perception-wise the entry barrier is probably higher."
From Wednesday, Oasis will fly to London's Gatwick Airport four times a week.
The company, owned by real estate entrepreneur Raymond Lee Cho-min, is selling one-way economy tickets from HK$1,000 and business class seats from HK$6,600 before taxes and surcharges.
The Oasis fleet consists of two Boeing 747-400 aircraft it bought from Singapore Airlines and refitted at a cost of US$100 million.
The company plans to add a US route in the first quarter of next year, flying several times a week to Oakland, California. To do so it will need to expand its fleet and has yet to finalise arrangements with providers.
"Obviously we need more aircraft," Mr Miller said. "We are sourcing aircraft now."
Oasis originally planned to start flights to Europe and the US a year ago. Its initial application to the Air Transport Licensing Authority was blocked for several months last year by objections from rival local operators including Cathay.
Subsequent difficulties in sourcing aircraft forced further delays.
More recently, local press reports said Oasis was having trouble securing its air operator's certificate, which involves detailed inspections and safety certifications.
Mr Miller, who rejected those reports, this week said the company had sold a relatively modest 16,000 tickets on scheduled London flights up to March.
"Some people don't like to risk HK$1,000," he said, citing negative media reports. "We expect quite a big take up once the news gets out that we have our operator's certificate."
Oasis becomes Hong Kong's fifth commercial airline. Mr Lee last month said the company would eventually seek to list in Hong Kong to help drive expansion.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... efer=china
A real picture of its B747-400: http://www.oasishongkong.com/hk/en/aboutus/fleet.aspx
A real picture of its B747-400: http://www.oasishongkong.com/hk/en/aboutus/fleet.aspx
Thanks to Russia, the first flight was cancelled.
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/article ... on_reuters
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/article ... on_reuters
Bloody Russians! What's the matter with them? 
"We are in talks with the Russia authorities. We paid for the overfly rights and we got the approval code, and yet at the last minute, they held us up," Chad said. "We have not had any explanation."
I suppose Oasis must have insurance cover for this kind of thing.... right?
"We are in talks with the Russia authorities. We paid for the overfly rights and we got the approval code, and yet at the last minute, they held us up," Chad said. "We have not had any explanation."
I suppose Oasis must have insurance cover for this kind of thing.... right?
