A Belgian B-Hunter unmanned aerial vehicle crashed on Fr. 28 July in the streets of Kinshasa wounding 2.
Crash is caused by a software malfunction. Now there are two (Israeli made) B-Hunters left on the airport of N'dolo near Kinshasa to keep an eye on the elections sunday the 30 July.
Last edited by ElcoB on 04 Aug 2006, 16:48, edited 2 times in total.
These things are dangerous?
For me it is unconceivable to use military weaponry in civil matters. The elections there are democratic over there? Or not?
Why is Belgian Defense using war weaponry over civilians? Who ordered that? Who is responsible? An finally who pays for that?
That says a lot about how some politicians think about the former colony: it is still a place where any experience can be set up.
Why have former colonist have to interfere with war wweaponry? What was the mandate? On who's authority were these weaponru send over to Congo? And was this mandate confirmed by the Belgian parlement?
So many questions and so little respect for those people isn't it?
May I remind that years and years ago labs were testing virusses in the former colony? And the story goes that HIV was injected.
No respect for those people isn't it?
Look what greedy people made of a beautiful country. Look what they are doing now. No respect for those people isn't it?
I am sad, even more, I'm disgusted about how some people behave.
SN30952 wrote:.................Why is Belgian Defense using war weaponry over civilians? Who ordered that? Who is responsible? An finally who pays for that?...................
I am sad, even more, I'm disgusted about how some people behave.
You bring up some interesting viewpoints, but this is an aviation forum.
Politics can be discussed on other dedicated forums, not here please.
As for the Belgian military participation in the events in Dr-Congo you can read everything about it on the site of EUFOR DR-CONGO
Don't know if it's related to this crash, but the B-Hunters couldn't even get off the ground for several days. Apparently because Kinshasa is 4° below the Equator and they were not "designed" for that lattitude. Technicians came all the way from Israel to fix this. Sounds amazing to me but that's what army folks are saying.
And if you were in that kind of crappy place, knowing that because of your skin color you're a potential target for some of the presidential candidates (it's always somebody else's fault, remember ?), you'd feel much better knowing that in case you have to be evacuated the soldiers taking you to safety know exactly where the protestors are. There are no weapon on that thing, just cameras and sensors.
The thing crashed, yeah well, I feel sorry for the wounded but accidents happen all the time.
And, best of all, your taxes (and mine) paid for this election. If a bit of military show keeps the losers quiet and ensures the success of the process, it's a win-win situation and well worth the effort.
scary to see what happens if the belgian army relies too much on israeli equipment. Israeli equipment is promoted to be of the highest quality , relying on battle field experiences. But reality shows that it is often way below standard.
Belgium should design/build its own unmanned aerial reconisance vehicles e.g. to guard the north see polution, fishing, rescue...
It is very silly that israeli technicians have to be brought to Kinshasha to find out that there is programming error.
It shows that the belgian army is depending too much on foreign technology.
If Belgium would send military to a southern Lebanon buffer zone, and they ant to use their Hunters, well, the israelies send through the data as they want.
Suddenly it is not more a silly situation but a painful trap.
regi wrote:Belgium should design/build its own unmanned aerial reconnaissance(?*) vehicles e.g. to guard the north see polution, fishing, rescue...
Exactely, and then it would also be easier to read the manuals.... (from right to left, and front to back....)
Barco has the techno in house, FN can make the engines, everybody happy, and lets put it together somewhere in Brussels.
I won't say dangerous but they are of course more dangerous than flying objects carrying people, because they only endanger human life indirectly and are designed for military use, especially because their is only one engine !!!
it is unconceivable to use military weaponry in civil matters
French UAV's were used during the G8 meeting in Evian a few years ago.
labs were testing virusses in the former colony? And the story goes that HIV was injected.
Producing anti-flu vaccines with monkeys organs and the vaccines were tested in some villages contaminating humans with a monkey disease (SIV but not sure).
Apparently because Kinshasa is 4° below the Equator and they were not "designed" for that lattitude.
Sounds weird, I would have thought that the difference in performance was due to temperature (Like helicopters having different rubber kits depending on the climate)
to Regi: The Belgian B-hunters where already used to patrol the north see from koksijde,now they have replaced those by converting their old Belgian Army B-02/LB Islanders to patrol aircraft like the OO-MMM
to SN30952: what's the big deal about using military reconnaicense material to control the area? Would you be more happy if a helicopter was used, then crashed and caused the death to at least 2 people?
Don't know if you have seen images on tv about it, but situation is pretty hostile over there so isn't it logical that they want some kind of control about the area? By the way, such a B-Hunter isn't noted as directly as a helicopter so people are maybe less aware about being watched. Isn't that a positive thing too? Furthermore, you probably will not know that the Belgian B-hunters are only used during the weekend (then it is a bit of a mistery to me why one crashed yesterday). And final: in the images on tv, you could see the precense of enough armoured vehicles (tanks) so I think those are the real army materials that cause some kind of chaos, not from a small unarmoured plane passing by.
Stepha380 wrote:I think everything is under a UN mandate because I have seen a report on british troops in CDR on Euronews.
There are two military missions ongoing in Dr Congo:
First one is the largest UN operation ongoing in the world, and they have their own website : MONUC
The United Nations Security Council established MONUC to facilitate the implementation of the Lusaka Accord signed in 1999. With a budget exceeding one billion dollars, it is the largest and most expensive mission in the Department of Peace Keeping Operations (DPKO).
The second military mission is one of the European Union : you can read about it on their websiteEUFOR RD Congo
Council Joint Action 2006/319/CFSP of 27 April 2006 on the European Union military operation in support of the United Nations Organisation Mission in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (MONUC) during the election process
Information can also be found onthe Belgian Defence website.
The EUFOR intervention is in support of UN MONUC but they operate as a independent European Battlegroup (first time this happens) with operational headquarters in Kinshasa, Gabon and Germany. They are not working under a UN mandate.
pietn wrote: to SN30952: what's the big deal about using military reconnaicense material to control the area? Would you be more happy if a helicopter was used, then crashed and caused the death to at least 2 people?
greetings, Pietn
I would rather prefer nothing at all... What would you say if eg Nigerian army would hover over your election booth in October?
What is it about always wanting to interfere in other countries?
If there are so many casualities in congolese wars, it is because the killings are done with western weaponry, and crimes under treath of the same. Let them fight their wars with their own utensils...
Don't forget the French, British and Germans fought wars were 1.000.000 men were killed. Did I hear you call them savages?
We are going way off topic now.
But in the first place imho, this war equipment was on the wrong place, Reconnaissance or not.
SN30952 wrote:I would rather prefer nothing at all...
Yeah, sure, like in Ivory Coast where protestors wanted to get rid of the UN soldiers because they were putting themselves between the two sides of the population that wanted to kill each other ?
"Peace-keepers go home, I want to kill my neighbour". How civilized...
If the international community (US/EU) really wanted to interfere in Congolese affairs and take advantage of the situation, they would have already decided to split the country into several smaller sovereign states, do business with the richest and avoid the problems of the poorest.
Shot down or not, the B-Hunters' purpose in Kinshasa is to help save lives by identifying the areas of civil unrest. Sorry if you don't like the green livery, but if you know a private company that's able to offer the same services for cheaper, give Koffi a call, I'm sure he'll like that !
Heard on the TV to-night that the thing was shot down.
What was it doing there in the first place ?
Had Flahaut and/or the Government an authorization of the Belgian Parliament to send it over there ?
It is a military contraption, manned by military personnel; after the Rwanda massacre (of 10 Belgian soldiers), it had been forbidden to send any more member of the Belgian Army in that kind of country, if I remember well...
airazurxtror wrote:after the Rwanda massacre (of 10 Belgian soldiers), it had been forbidden to send any more member of the Belgian Army in that kind of country, if I remember well...
We're not going to invade France, or Germany, or even Luxembourg, are we ? They're not going to invade us either, right ?
Unless you want to have unemployment statistics go through the roof by firing all military personnel, it doesn't sound stupid to keep trained professionnals for peace-keeping jobs.
Where do we need peace-keeping forces ? Probably not in Luxembourg. Maybe in French suburbs. Possibly around German stadiums but that was just for last month. For the rest, the choice is limited !
TCAS_climb wrote:
Where do we need peace-keeping forces ? Probably not in Luxembourg. Maybe in French suburbs. Possibly around German stadiums but that was just for last month. For the rest, the choice is limited !
I thought that was INSIDE the stadiums, to fill up the empty spots? And they get paid for that?
(from right to left, and front to back....)
to Regi: The Belgian B-hunters where already used to patrol the north see from koksijde,now they have replaced those by converting their old Belgian Army B-02/LB Islanders to patrol aircraft like the OO-MMM
