Singapore Airlines chooses A 350

CX · Post by CX » 26 Jul 2006, 01:52

I think an article said that this A350 fuselage will have a high percentage composite materials, with the areas that are most subject to damage Al-Li for fast repairs/easy maintenance, and also an all composite wing. So it might be heavier, but probably not much...

No way the A350 will cover the 787-3, but the -1000 will surely take care of the 773 at this stage, unless Boeing stretches the 773 further.. but i mean with a 9-abreast config, and if Airbus stretches it to the A346 length, it can get something like 370 seats easy..

cageyjames · Post by **cageyjames** » 26 Jul 2006, 02:32

CX wrote:...but the -1000 will surely take care of the 773 at this stage

773? I assume you mean 772. No way the A350 can compete with any 773ER head to head. I'm willing to take that statement back when we learn more about the -1000, but the extra cargo capacity of the 773ER will make it a much better bet IMO. Our flights to Europe on the 333 make so much more money over the 762s and 752s because of the added cargo (the extra passengers the 333 takes over the 762 almost are irrelevant compared to the extra cargo). I suspect that will be the 777s ace in the hole.

But I'll wait and see about more on the -1000 when that info comes out.

CX · Post by CX » 26 Jul 2006, 14:17

cageyjames wrote:
CX wrote:...but the -1000 will surely take care of the 773 at this stage
773? I assume you mean 772. No way the A350 can compete with any 773ER head to head. I'm willing to take that statement back when we learn more about the -1000, but the extra cargo capacity of the 773ER will make it a much better bet IMO. Our flights to Europe on the 333 make so much more money over the 762s and 752s because of the added cargo (the extra passengers the 333 takes over the 762 almost are irrelevant compared to the extra cargo). I suspect that will be the 777s ace in the hole.

But I'll wait and see about more on the -1000 when that info comes out.

Yes let's wait and see, however I do doubt the -1000 will have the MTOW as high as the A346HGW anyway... let's wait and see.

CX · Post by CX » 26 Jul 2006, 14:39

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/20 ... eport.html

Nice big article. MTOW of the -1000 is 290t while the A346 is 380t... huge difference...

cageyjames · Post by **cageyjames** » 26 Jul 2006, 15:27

And the B777 is about 350t if I remember correctly (yea I know I have this internet to research it, but I'm hung over

)

CX · Post by CX » 26 Jul 2006, 15:38

Well doesn't this mean Airbus will bring out another plane in the future that will be bigger than the -1000? The A3510 cannot 'replace' the A346, and I don't believe Airbus will just leave that gap occupied by the 773ER.. Another new range of planes or a quad-engined A350XWB? Emirates has said before that 'a twin cannot do everything'..

TexasGuy · Post by **TexasGuy** » 26 Jul 2006, 19:28

CX wrote:Well doesn't this mean Airbus will bring out another plane in the future that will be bigger than the -1000? The A3510 cannot 'replace' the A346, and I don't believe Airbus will just leave that gap occupied by the 773ER.. Another new range of planes or a quad-engined A350XWB? Emirates has said before that 'a twin cannot do everything'..

I dont think so. When the A 340 dies, the only 4 engine jets we will see still in production in some form are the A 380 and B 747

earthman · Post by **earthman** » 27 Jul 2006, 08:15

If there's enough demand, I'm sure they will make a 4-engine version. A360 maybe?

But with all the efficiency requirements that is rather unlikely, it would make more sense to create a HGW version of the A350 with more powerful engines to cope with hot places.

ryanCX · Post by **ryanCX** » 27 Jul 2006, 21:15

My biggest surprise at this point is why would they choose to lease the A330s? Just that it's a bit of shock considering they operate the world's largest 777 fleet.
Although, SIA, unlike other carriers has the luxury and history of just 'trying out' aircrafts, as they did with the A340s.

CX · Post by CX » 28 Jul 2006, 00:13

ryanCX wrote:My biggest surprise at this point is why would they choose to lease the A330s? Just that it's a bit of shock considering they operate the world's largest 777 fleet.
Although, SIA, unlike other carriers has the luxury and history of just 'trying out' aircrafts, as they did with the A340s.

Their A345s? Just no idea why they want to get rid off them so badly, Emirates still has a quite a big fleet of A345s and they seem to be OK with them...
Looking forward to see the A333 in SIA livery!

Stepha380 · Post by **Stepha380** » 28 Jul 2006, 01:50

CX wrote:Their A345s? Just no idea why they want to get rid off them so badly, Emirates still has a quite a big fleet of A345s and they seem to be OK with them...
Looking forward to see the A333 in SIA livery!

The SIA argument to get rid off the A345 is "even with a reduced configuration (understand a lot of F and J), fuel has become too expensive to make the expected profit on Ultra Long Range Flights like SIN-LAX and SIN-EWR and because you can't put a lot of cargo in the hold."

SIN - EWR at 8285nm
SIN - LAX at 7621nm

Longest Emirates routes with A345

DXB-JFK 6849nm
DXB-SYD 7481nm

CX · Post by CX » 29 Jul 2006, 11:35

What routes will they use their A333s with anyway? Replace their part of their 31x772s?
And just found out/remembered they have 19 773ERs on order, looks like no XWB-1000 anytime soon.. will be sad to see the A345 go, it is a nice impressive looking plane..

CX · Post by CX » 30 Jul 2006, 03:46

earthman wrote:If there's enough demand, I'm sure they will make a 4-engine version. A360 maybe?

But with all the efficiency requirements that is rather unlikely, it would make more sense to create a HGW version of the A350 with more powerful engines to cope with hot places.

With fuel efficiency the key, is a tri-jet possible? I know it has been disussed in another thread but as the percentage of maintenance cost (of total cost) becomes lower because fuel cost is going higher, extra cost from the third engine up there should be offset by the savings from using 4 smaller engines instead.

TexasGuy · Post by **TexasGuy** » 30 Jul 2006, 05:26

CX wrote:
earthman wrote:If there's enough demand, I'm sure they will make a 4-engine version. A360 maybe?

But with all the efficiency requirements that is rather unlikely, it would make more sense to create a HGW version of the A350 with more powerful engines to cope with hot places.
With fuel efficiency the key, is a tri-jet possible? The percentage of maintenance cost must have lowered because fuel cost is much higher now, so the extra cost from using a different engine up the top has less impact than it did before..

I would love to see widebody Trijets in production again!!! Has Airbus ever considered the idea?

....

cageyjames · Post by **cageyjames** » 30 Jul 2006, 16:44

TexasGuy wrote:
I would love to see widebody Trijets in production again!!! Has Airbus ever considered the idea?

....

Considering Boeing looked at removing the tail engine from the MD-11 after they "merged" with MD I'm guessing that 3 doesn't pay.

TexasGuy · Post by **TexasGuy** » 03 Aug 2006, 06:49

cageyjames wrote:
TexasGuy wrote:
I would love to see widebody Trijets in production again!!! Has Airbus ever considered the idea?

....
Considering Boeing looked at removing the tail engine from the MD-11 after they "merged" with MD I'm guessing that 3 doesn't pay.

That may be, but 3 engines will be less expensive to operate than 4. Especially with all the new technologies.

...

achace · Post by **achace** » 03 Aug 2006, 10:26

A wide body 727 configuration would be interesting.
With the wings so far back to balance the beast, it would be a great freight plane also, with so much access room for a VERY wide loading door.

Cheers
Achace

smokejumper · Post by **smokejumper** » 03 Aug 2006, 14:39

achace wrote:A wide body 727 configuration would be interesting.
With the wings so far back to balance the beast, it would be a great freight plane also, with so much access room for a VERY wide loading door.

Cheers
Achace

Lockheed's Tristar filed this slot!

smokejumper · Post by **smokejumper** » 03 Aug 2006, 15:01

There is another possible issue as to why SIA selected the A350 XWB. The penalties for late deliveries for the A380 are very large and an upfront cash settlement with the airlines would greatly harm Airbus’ cash flow.

As we know, large discounts are offered for early orders of any new plane. If Airbus offered SIA the customary new plane discount and then sweetened it with an additional discount (to compensate SIA for A380 late deliveries), it would be advantageous for both. (1) SIA is compensated for late delivery. (2) SIA gets a new plane for a very advantageous price. (3) Since the A350 XWB can be expected to be less fuel efficient due to a higher weight than the B787 (less composites), the lower price can offset additional fuel costs. (4) If Airbus does not require SIA to make a down-payment on contract signing, SIA’s cash flow is improved. (5) Airbus has a premier “brand-name” customer as the initial ordering airline. (6) Airbus has settled the late delivery penalties with one customer.

Also, SIA wants to ensure that two solid manufacturers continue to offer competitive products, so their options continue to be open in the future. All in all, it would be a win for both.

RC20 · Post by **RC20** » 04 Aug 2006, 07:22

CX wrote:
David747 wrote:SQ has a MoU with the 787, they haven't officially ordered the plane.
I see, but looks like they'll firm it up doesn't it? 40 789s vs 20 A359XWBs

The Boeing numbers are 20 787 commitments, and 20 options.

The Airbus numbers are 20 A350s commitments and 20 options.

SIA is a well run airline, so they obviously think they can make it work.

Also note, the A350 really competes with the 777s, not the 787 (no matter what John Leahey says). Also interesting its narrower than the 777, though compared to the 787. More smoke and mirrors.

Also of note, the 787-10 will compete with the A350 and between them, 777-200 is gone (not the LR, or the freighter).

Aviation24.be

Singapore Airlines chooses A 350

SIA orders A350