Minister Anciaux wants to close Brussels Airport at Zaventem

Zenfookpower · Post by **Zenfookpower** » 24 Jul 2006, 20:31

I understand that Belgian Minister Bert Anciaux wants to close Zaventem in an effort to resolve all the noise issues.
He also wants to convert the installations into a big sports center as a pre-amble for the Belgian 2024 Olympic Games bid..?
The same minister suggested to move all air traffic to the military airport of Beauvechain/Bevekom.. Is this true....?

AlexanderM · Post by **AlexanderM** » 24 Jul 2006, 20:54

yep, apperently it's true he's got that idea!
http://www.standaard.be/Artikel/Detail. ... 072006_082 (in Dutch)

Still, I don't beleive that this is ever going to happen. It would cost way too much money on new terminals, railway connection, many jobs would be lost,... not really realistic.

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 24 Jul 2006, 21:20

This is the most rediculous plan ever. There is even no money to rebuild the King Boudewijn stadion, what is he talking about a sportssite as big as Zaventem.

Don't pay attention on it, its only mister Anciaux alias "den blijter". He can't cope that there will be a solution for Zaventem.

Is he thinking about the costs to build that new ATC tower, the costs of the new A-pier, the Diabolo-project? We have to pay for that for many, many years.

He can ask Macquarie Airport to be the sponsor. Oh, this is the best joke in months.

b-west · Post by **b-west** » 24 Jul 2006, 21:29

Thought this controversial idea deserved a new thread

Zenfookpower · Post by **Zenfookpower** » 24 Jul 2006, 21:30

Atlantis wrote:This is the most rediculous plan ever. There is even no money to rebuild the King Boudewijn stadion, what is he talking about a sportssite as big as Zaventem.

Don't pay attention on it, its only mister Anciaux alias "den blijter". He can't cope that there will be a solution for Zaventem.

Is he thinking about the costs to build that new ATC tower, the costs of the new A-pier, the Diabolo-project? We have to pay for that for many, many years.

He can ask Macquarie Airport to be the sponsor. Oh, this is the best joke in months.

May be too many ministers in Belgium... 8)

ATC · Post by **ATC** » 24 Jul 2006, 21:34

Is he thinking

No, he isn't...

The last few years this guy is broken more things than he has solved.

ATC

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 24 Jul 2006, 21:35

Yeah indeed and some of them can not let go their former post. He is now minister of sports but he is always interfering when it is going about the airport and the noise restrictions.

Or he needed badly a holiday.

Stepha380 · Post by **Stepha380** » 24 Jul 2006, 21:37

Why do these people even complain?

I don't know the situation in BRU but in Paris, approach and climb procedures have changed recently in order to impact the minimum of population. Lots of people that were not disturbed by the airplanes before and now they are.

Orange County Airport is one of the most severe airport concerning noise regulations, there are six sound recorders and if an airplane breaches three times the regulation, it may be fined, and if it goes on, banned for a period.

pascal-air · Post by **pascal-air** » 24 Jul 2006, 22:38

Bert Anciaux is THE cause of the noise. He took the decision of the Dispersion Plan. The dispersion plan does not work and will probably be canceled soon by the "Conseil d'etat". This is not a breaking news, the decision is already taken and must just be publicly available in few weeks. And this decision is good for most of eveybody (airport and other people) because the 1999 situation will be back.

Then this poor flemish Bert Anciaux is thinking to another solution, destroy the airport, and put it somewhere else.

Poor guy.... He failed....

Zenfookpower · Post by **Zenfookpower** » 24 Jul 2006, 23:48

Atlantis wrote:Yeah indeed and some of them can not let go their former post. He is now minister of sports but he is always interfering when it is going about the airport and the noise restrictions.

Or he needed badly a holiday.

So from what I could understand here .. This minister has no responsibilty anymore in this issue and is just voicing his opinion in favor of the Olympic bidding...or is he just stirring the pot..???

p.s Has the recent "heatwave" in Belgium something to do with this..?

AlexanderM · Post by **AlexanderM** » 24 Jul 2006, 23:56

Well, the thing is that he invented the dispersion plan. Now it's clear that this has totally failed, and he can't accept that, so he comes up with a new idea to save his image. He's now minister of sports or something like that, so why not turn the airport into an olympic stadium?

absolutly ridiculous!

LX-LGX · Post by **LX-LGX** » 25 Jul 2006, 03:28

On 21th February 2001, our honourable minister Anciaux was a guest in the VTM television program "Debby & Nancy". To prove the innocence of soft drugs, the minister smoked a joint.

I thaught he was clean since then, but seems he has now restarted. So please, let's forgive him this blunder: his mind wasn't clear when he wrote it down.

(Damienne: please check his pockets as from now).

Post by **sn26567** » 25 Jul 2006, 10:17

b-west wrote:Thought this controversial idea deserved a new thread

Right! I've done it.

Post by **sn26567** » 25 Jul 2006, 10:20

Stepha380 wrote:in Paris, approach and climb procedures have changed recently in order to impact the minimum of population. Lots of people that were not disturbed by the airplanes before and now they are.

Before 1999 in Brussels also a minimum of people were impacted, and in addition the routes were chosen exclusively in function of meteorlogical conditions, increasing the safety.

But then some ministers (mainly Durant and Anciaux) thought (!) this should change....

earthman · Post by **earthman** » 25 Jul 2006, 12:34

Why not just move Brussels to some other location away from the airport?

LX-LGX · Post by **LX-LGX** » 25 Jul 2006, 13:58

Bert Anciaux is a member of the Flanders government. As per today, he is Flanders’ minister for Culture, Youth, Sports and Brussels. In his previous life, he was federal minister of Transport. He is therefore not just a politician: he is a political leader.

To make sure we talk about the same story, I’ve tried to translate his statement from his weblog. Sorry for the English, but I’ve tried to translate is without changing his text too much. If you don’t understand my English, please keep in mind that I don’t always understand myself what he’s saying in Dutch, although that's also my native language. Here we go:

… Holiday is an time to think about problems…

… Many times, I’ve tried to find a positive solution for the noise problems at BRU…

…Nowhere in Europe, an important airport has been built next to a big city, specially not north-east of this city. Regarded the south-western winds, this implant is stupid. This has only been done at Brussels…

…The old Nazi-airport has been extended to a far too big aviation pool…

… All the neighbours are victim of this decision…

… Nowhere, you will find an airport that close to a big city…

… nothing positive can be said about this story…

… I also disagree that the airport involves thousands of jobs…

… This story stinks, and a positive solution will not be found in the near future…

… Is it possible to implant this airport somewhere else?... And what useful purpose can we give to Zaventem? ... Some friends asked me this, and they have given me the answers...

… Belgium, a small country, has many many military airports. One of them is Bevekom (Flemish name) / Beauvechain (French name): a military airport with almost no activities…

… all our pilots get their education (formation) in France…

… Bevekom/Beauvechain has an ideal implant towards Brussels… Routes can be found with hardly no impact for people…

… Flanders needs future plans and challenges, like getting the Olympic Games. However, that’s not possible by 2016: we don’t have enough top sporters, neither sport facilities..

… If Brussels wants the Games 2024, we must invest in top sport and sport for all. We are working extremely well on this matter (remark LX-LGX: off course, sport is one of minister Anciaux’ tasks…)…

…But then, we nee a real good space. The only available space in Belgium to realise this, is the BRU-area…

… it’s a win/win: Flanders and Brussels become the best equipped sport place on earth. Ideally located towards the city centre… All sports will get their own superb arena… An investment for the future that will benefit Vlaams-Brabant (LX-LGX: that's the minister’s own province)…

… Life quality of the thousands neighbours will finally improve…

... Bye bye to the devastating plans to get 35 mio passengers at BRU…

.. Health and sporting activities by the whole Belgian population will improve…

… And finally, Bevekom/Beauvechain will finally know it’s future: a business airport, with only little hinder for it’s neighbours…

This is a master plan for the future in which I really believe…

… Even more: there are almost no negative aspects… If we really want something positive for our youth and for future generations, this is it…

… Holiday time is a time to think about surprising matters. To smash this down is easy. Mobilising positive people however is the challenge…

… Conservative people will classify my plan as not realistic or not wanted…

… But then, off course, only utopists like me make world history…

… Think about it !...

Bert

posted on www.bertanciaux.be on 23th July 2006 (at 19h38)

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23 juli 2006

Vakantie dient om de zaken eens op een rijtje te zetten. Om te genieten van die dingen waar je anders te weinig tijd voor hebt. Maar ook om na te denken en oplossingen te zoeken voor problemen die zich stellen.

Meermaals zocht ik naar een positieve oplossing voor het probleem van de geluidshinder van de luchthaven van Zaventem. Nergens elders in Europa is er een belangrijke luchthaven gebouwd vlakbij een grootstad en zeker niet ten noord-oosten van deze stad. Met absoluut overheersende zuid-westenwinden is een dergelijke inplanting gewoonweg dom. Enkel in Brussel is dit wel zo gebeurd. Daar heeft men de oude Nazi-luchthaven in Zaventem verder uitgebouwd tot een veel te grote luchtpool. De vele omwonenden zijn er de dupe van. Bovendien is er bijna nergens een luchthaven te vinden die zo dicht bij de grootstad ligt. Ook de bedrijven zelf zijn nauwelijks geliëerd aan echte luchtvaartactiviteiten. Aan dit dossier zit geen positieve kant. En het fabeltje, met name dat de luchthaven nodig is voor de instandhouding van duizenden jobs, mag ook wel eens doorprikt worden. Het is een rotdossier waar niet snel een goede oplossing voor gevonden zal worden.

Kan deze luchthaven misschien elders ingeplant worden? En welke zinvolle invulling kunnen we aan Zaventem geven?

Enkele vrienden stelden mij deze vragen. En ze gaven er zelfs de antwoorden bij: In België, een voorschoot groot, zijn heel veel militaire luchthavens. Zo heb je Bevekom of Beauvechain. Een militaire luchthaven met nog nauwelijks activiteiten. Al onze piloten krijgen in Frankrijk hun opleiding. Deze plek ligt op een ideale afstand van Brussel. En er kunnen routes uitgedacht worden die de mensen nauwelijks hinder bezorgen.

Anderzijds willen we zo graag met Vlaanderen een stevig toekomstplan uitbouwen, met boeiende uitdagingen. De Olympische Spelen naar hier halen, is zo een uitdaging. Maar dat kunnen we niet realiseren tegen 2016. Er zijn noch voldoende topatleten, noch is er voldoende ruimte om de nodige sportaccommodatie te realiseren. Indien Brussel ooit kandidaat wil zijn voor de Olympische Spelen in 2024, dan moet er stevig geïnvesteerd worden in topsport en sport voor allen. Daarmee zijn we zeer goed bezig. Daarnaast moet er een goede plek gezocht worden. De enige plaats waar echt open ruimte is om dit te realiseren, is natuurlijk de huidige luchthaven in Zaventem.

Zo vang je meerdere vliegen in één klap. Vlaanderen en Brussel worden de best uitgeruste sportplek ter wereld. De afstand tov het stadscentrum is ideaal. We geven een nooit geziene impuls aan het sportgebeuren. Hier komt de broodnodige opvolger van het Heizelstadion. En alle nodige sporten krijgen hier hun tempel. Je geeft ook een enorme injectie aan Vlaams-Brabant. Duurzame toekomstgerichte investeringen waar de hele economie wel bij zal varen. Maar ook de levenskwaliteit van duizenden omwonenden zal eindelijk verbeteren. En de waanzinnige plannen om ooit 35 miljoen reizigers te bereiken op de luchthaven van Zaventem worden opgeborgen. Ook de gezondheid en de sportbeoefening van heel de bevolking kan hierbij winnen. En tot slot geef je een zekere toekomst aan de hoogst onzekere situatie van Bevekom. Je bouwt hier een zakenluchthaven, met relatief weinig hinder voor omwonenden.

Dit is nu nog eens een toekomstplan waar ik keihard in geloof. En eigenlijk zijn er voor het algemeen belang niet eens negatieve elementen aan verbonden. Indien we voor de toekomstige generaties en de kinderen en jongeren van vandaag iets positief willen nalaten, dan zou dit wel eens het ideale plaatje kunnen zijn.

Tijdens de vakantie moet je durven nadenken over verrassende pistes. Hierop inhakken is zeer eenvoudig, maar hierrond positieve mensen mobiliseren, dat is pas een uitdaging. Conservatieve mensen zullen het afdoen als irrealistisch of ongewenst. Maar het zijn natuurlijk de utopisten die de wereldgeschiedenis maken. Denk er eens over na!

Bert

Gepost door Bert Anciaux om 19:38 uur

Zenfookpower · Post by **Zenfookpower** » 25 Jul 2006, 14:28

To you Belgians,...

1) Does any of his remarks make sense or is he completely off the mark..

2) Do you also think that the pre-1999 conditions is a political viable solution.

3) Is there a political will to resolve this issue..?

p.s I don't want to get involved in Belgian politics, but as an outsider it seems to be very "confusing"

(See also THIS thread at a.net)

gumblebee · Post by **gumblebee** » 25 Jul 2006, 16:40

1) Does any of his remarks make sense or is he completely off the mark..

The idea of moving the national airport is not new. The idea of establishing an Olympic site at Zaventem is new to me. I remember reading suggentions we should build a better European headquarters for which the airport site would be ideal (they would have their own airport for maximum security). It seems to me that the European presence has more benefits for us than any olympic games ever would, but maybe both ideas could be combined. There would be major institutional stumbling blocs for both ideas anyway.

Possible locations for a new national airport would be the present airports at Beauvechain and Chievres.

Chièvres is currently a short runway airport mostly used by Nato ?). It is situated at 45km southwest of Brussels in the Walloon province of Hainaut, in a fairly sparsely populated area, with no major cities close nearby. It would have the advantage of being very close to the motorway and HST railway to Paris. Hainaut province has a fairly high unemployment rate, whereas around Zaventem the unemployment rate is the lowest in Belgium (Brussels itself is another matter).

Beauvechain is a one runway military airport used mostly by fighter aircraft. It is situated at 35km southeast of Brussels in the province of Brabant Wallon, very close to Flanders. The immediate area is sparsely populated, but the cities of Leuven and Diest might be close to the main landing route. It does not have sufficient connections to anywhere right now

IMHO Ostend would be another interesting possibility despite its 120km distance from Brussels. Main advantage would be that the main take-off route could be over the sea. Better runway orientation could minimize hindrance.
There is already a lot of protest against this airport as well (the main issue seems to be the operation of crappy freighters).

One should not forget that Zaventem had some major investment recently (both Schengen and Non-Schengen terminals, railway connections), so I don't think abandoning Zaventem is in option for the first 20 years to come. We'd need 15 years to finish a new airport and connections anyway.

Any new airport would mean hundreds to thousands of families facing expropriation with the associatied financial and public relations issues (not to speak of personal dramas.

As to the situation in 15 years, will airplane fuel still be sufficiently affordable by then; maybe we could start building vac-trains for even faster and more ecological transportation (see http://www.swissmetro.com/)

Personally I think the best option would be to move the night operations elsewhere (maybe Ostend or Liège/Bierset) and keep Zaventem as the passenger/business-hub (daytime only). A fast connection would be essential for airfreight on passenger planes ; all 3 airports are along high speed railway lines.
Anyway Belgium could use better intercontinental connections towards Asia and Latin America. That would save us all some rounds of security nightmares, delay risks and boarding hassles. That said I don't mind making stops on long flights, but preferably more or less halfway, to help break the monotony and discomfort of a long flight.

2) Do you also think that the pre-1999 conditions is a political viable solution.

If the dispersion plan were to be canceled by the "Conseil d'etat", that might be the "de jure" situation anyway. Maybe it also would ease further negotiations. I believe the Brussels region is requesting to start from pre-1999 conditions. A cancellation might make this easier to swallow for the Flemish region.

3) Is there a political will to resolve this issue..?

I expect new protest movements around Beauvechain and/or Chievres once plans for such a move would be more established. Anyway, Brussels needs an airport if only to continue functioning as European capital, so I'm convinced our politicians will find a solution somehow (in some miraculous way they always seem to manage).

Flyuli · Post by **Flyuli** » 25 Jul 2006, 17:09

why the governement don't evaluate a large project to expropriate the nearest families around the airport?? Is it a bad idea? it will be cheaper that a new airport...

Zenfookpower · Post by **Zenfookpower** » 25 Jul 2006, 18:31

"gumblebee"

Thanks for the detailed education...Keep in mind where ever you "inplant" a new airport the same urban problems will appear.. Belgium with 10 plus milion people (and growing) will soon run out of options..

Or build an airport of the Belgian coast in the North Sea and blend in the planned power wind mills.. May be I should drop your minister an e-mail to keep his juices flowing...