DL B767 Hard landing @ BRU?

JoNnika · Post by **JoNnika** » 21 May 2006, 17:35

Bilboone wrote:
TUB004 wrote:
Can someone confirm it is possible to fully deploy the spoilers in the air on a 67? Isn't there some kind of lock?

I think you meant Boeing 767, on most airliners you have two types of spoilers on the wing, flight spoilers and ground spoilers, the flight spoilers are always in use during flight ,they are also used to turn with the ailerons, are to bleed/ reduce some speed with the speedbrake handle, Ground spoilers ( these are the inboard ones most of the time,between the engine and fuselage) can only be used on ground together with the flight spoilers (these go also to a bigger angle of extension) , meaning the main gears must be on ground and therefore is a detection system on the maingears (struts) to detect the struts are compressed and on ground. Also reverse thrust can be then only selected ( yes , on some russian aircrafts its diff.)

On this site of the 737 its nice explained about the use of spoilers with great pics

Very true and on most modern jets this system is automated. Pilots put the spoiler in "armed" position and they deploy upon touch down indeed trigered by a sensor in the gear.

For the part where pilots use airbrakes on short final i just don't believe it, it would be a great risc to stall the aircraft or loose control.

A320-Addict · Post by **A320-Addict** » 21 May 2006, 18:58

Hello,

I can confirm the following about the Delta 767 incident on 17/05:

Tower advised Delta that upon landing, the firebrigade along runway 25L heard a loud noise ('bang') at the time of landing and touchdown of the Delta 767.

I was on duty myself and was about to taxi out, at the same moment that the 767 left the runway and taxied towards its gate.

We noticed quite some smoke coming from the right main gear, together with 1 (confirmed) or maybe 2 (not visible) flat tires.

We advisded the Delta 767 about this (flat tire + smoke). It did not seem to bother them that much because they replied with a pretty short and standard answer: 'Roger that'.

No fire brigade was called, and the Delta continued its taxi towards the gate, without any further inspection, or asking further details about the smoke or visible damage.

I am not aware of the total resulting damage to the plane, nor if they asked the fire brigade to come to the stand as a precautionary measure afterwards.

Hope this helps a little 8)

AA

TUB004 · Post by **TUB004** » 21 May 2006, 19:54

JoNnika wrote:For the part where pilots use airbrakes on short final i just don't believe it, it would be a great risc to stall the aircraft or loose control.

It was during the flare, and if the pilot hadn't taken such a great risk I wouldn't be talking of it today.

What he did was extremely dangerous...

Thanks for the confirmation concerning the Delta 767 A320-Addict! It's surprising that nearly no one knows about this!

But how could they get those tires changed and the possible damage repaired + a check-up in such a small period of time? 8O

Regards,

Jonathan

JoNnika · Post by **JoNnika** » 21 May 2006, 19:56

TUB004 wrote:
JoNnika wrote:For the part where pilots use airbrakes on short final i just don't believe it, it would be a great risc to stall the aircraft or loose control.
It was during the flare, and if the pilot hadn't taken such a great risk I wouldn't be talking of it today.
What he did was extremely dangerous...

If it was during flare are you sure it wasn't just the spoilers deploying?

hanzeround · Post by **hanzeround** » 21 May 2006, 21:07

A hard landing in snow/rain is always a option when the runway has snow on it.
After a hard landing in denver (767-200 united) the captain came on the pa and explained it. (the never tell you in advance)

TUB004 · Post by **TUB004** » 21 May 2006, 21:41

JoNnika wrote:
TUB004 wrote:
JoNnika wrote:For the part where pilots use airbrakes on short final i just don't believe it, it would be a great risc to stall the aircraft or loose control.
It was during the flare, and if the pilot hadn't taken such a great risk I wouldn't be talking of it today.
What he did was extremely dangerous...

If it was during flare are you sure it wasn't just the spoilers deploying?

Positive.

The captain (or more probably F/O) used the spoilers intentionally to make the aircraft fall.
Then again, I do not want to give the impression that there are regularly bad flights with this airline (Delta if I remember correctly), since then I have done another dozen flights there without any incidents!

Jonathan

haflinger · Post by **haflinger** » 24 May 2006, 18:13

To those who think that:

- A hard landing is not a good landing
- Deploying airbrake in short final is dangerous (or forbidden).
- Deploying spoilers without contact with the ground is possible.

A normal landing is a positive landing, for an airliner. When you have enough runway available, you can start flaring higher, keep a little bit of extra power, and then make a "kiss" landing, otherwise, especially in case of bad weather, you have to be positive, to have the maximum of runway available to brake.

Concerning the spoilers/airbrake: A quick summary:

Airbrake: To reduce the speed of the aircraft by increasing the drag. Can be used at any time, (depending on aircraft limitations (737 for example cannot extend airbrake above a certain speed (250?), Avro doesn't have a limitation for the airbrake), in cruise, in descent, and in final.
For example, the procedure on the avro is to extend the airbrake in short final (100').

Roll spoilers: To assist the roll during flight. (without it, the wing would twist at high speed with the sole use of ailerons). On large aircraft DC10 for example, at a certain speed, the ailerons are locked and the roll spoilers deploys to roll the aircraft.

Ground spoilers: To brake the aircraft on the ground. As previously said, only available when the struts of the main gear (or combinaison) have been compressed.

Once the aircraft is on the ground, by selecting the ground spoilers, on some aircraft, everything (roll/ground sploilers+airbrake) is deployed to kill the lift/increase the drag.

So, if you feel that the aircraft has felt after the flare it can only be the airbrake, as ground spoilers only deploys when you're in contact and that roll spoilers only deploys asymetrically (to turn).

Last point. Sometimes you may not feel the main gear touching the runway while the nose wheel is still in the air, and if the pilot want to start braking, so he deploys the spoilers, which makes the nose wheel to hardly contact the ground. You certainly experienced that also.