Some problems for A380...

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PYX
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Joined: 23 Nov 2005, 00:00

Post by PYX »

SAS_MD80 wrote:What the hell do you think gives you the right to use such a tone? Your visible exasperation does not exempt you from elementary politeness.
Thanks.
Chris
And, where in that post do you detect this impoliteness?
Were names called? Is anyone specifically mentioned?
Were you personally criticized for perpetuating factually incorrect information?
I believe the response to your post was "Sorry, not so." Is that not correct?
Tone? I did not detect any particular "tone."
But, yes it is exasperating when people choose to ignore the facts and prefer to continue spreading mis-information.

SAS_MD80
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Post by SAS_MD80 »

Right... I agree with the bottomline: mis-information should be avoided in this forum.

Bracebrace
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Post by Bracebrace »

Joe Sutter will be right, who are we to contradict him? But "Nothing", "never",... are very dangerous words :wink: .

Did some googling with his name and found an article in which he expresses his opinion on the A380. Reading through all the A380 vs 747 (which I don't really like, times do change) he states what is the only truth in the A380 story:

"...only time will tell"

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CXRules
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Post by CXRules »

Some good news, Emirates expects first A380 by mid-April 2007

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/20 ... ts+of.html

Ovostar
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Post by Ovostar »

and when will singapore receive them ?

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PYX
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Post by PYX »

Ovostar wrote:and when will singapore receive them ?
Supposedly, November/December this year.

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bits44
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Post by bits44 »

An interesting outlook from a former Airbus sales director:


http://www.iagportal.squarespace.com/pr ... 2Fa380.pdf
There are no strangers in the world, just friends we have yet to meet.

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CX
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Post by CX »

In the nearer future i see the A380 serving short haul ultra high capacity routes rather than long haul hub busting routes...

RC20
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Post by RC20 »

CX wrote:In the nearer future i see the A380 serving short haul ultra high capacity routes rather than long haul hub busting routes...

Based on what? Its not what it was designed to do, its not economical (like a huge bust, it really has to be stretched even to work on long haul) , and the airlines prefer to use multiple aircraft on those runs (as many as they can cram into an airport) rather than go to a large aircraft (or the 767 would be selling like hotcakes).

So, if you have to move up to fewer aircraft, you will do it with as small a larger aircraft as you can, be it an A330/767/787, or a 747.

Note I left out A340s and B747s, those are 4 engine machines, and the economics do not fit.

RC20
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Post by RC20 »

bits44 wrote:An interesting outlook from a former Airbus sales director:


http://www.iagportal.squarespace.com/pr ... 2Fa380.pdf
I am seeing more and more articles (including European for the first time) that are recognizing what a debacle Airbus put itself into with the A380.

Instead of concentrating on the core business (small and mid sized jets) they launched themselves into the bigger stuff (A340 and A380).

The A340 and the 777 class aircraft are obviously viable markets for Airbus (and a logical move up), but they went about it wrong, trying to leverage an existing airframe instead of all new.

That gave Boeing their first shot at recovery with the 777, as they had a clear target to beat, and more importantly, a way to do it (two engine and an advanced if conventional airframe).

Then Airbus let their inferiority complex loose. And I say that advisably, it is a self imposed inferiority complex, as they did have superior products to offer. Just not the biggest, and who cares if you are successful.

That gave Boeing the clear opening to stick the knife in, if Boeing could get their act together. And Boeing was quietly doing just that. Allan Mulalay is not only a good engineer, but he has been extremely successful with his programs. They took all they had done, including the so called failed Sonic Cruiser, and used all the expertise and development to come out with a true killer product.

That puts them in the drivers seat, and they are going to stay there for a long time.
The 787 is just the start, the 737 replacement will be next, and that will come while Airbus is still struggling trying to compete a conventional fuselage against the 787, and Boeing has the Y3 project on the burner to, so they have an answer if and when Airbus challenges the 777 (maybe with the A350 at the lower end or the rumored A370). In either case Boeing can match them if they go composites, or they will simply beat them if they stay with conventional.

And once you get behind and loose market share, then a me to aircraft (let alone an inferior product) will never catch up. It has to be superior, and unless they really let the designer dogs loose, and come up with a radical airframe style and composites, it won’t happen.

Boeing in the meantime gets experience with the composites on the 787 (4 major models) and the 737 replamcent and they will be ahead of Airbus for the next 30 years.

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David747
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Post by David747 »

Time will tell on how the A380 will do, so far, this new airliner has gone through the typical pains of coming to the market. The Boeing 747, as some here have already posted, went through engine problems, problems with its flaps, weight, etc, before the Airliner took its place among the most reliable airliners in the world. A380 will not be perfect, but it will be good enough that it will probably be one of Airbus's best seller. All the doubt on the A380, reminds me of the same doubt I read about when it came to the 747. If people want to read on the 747 development, Guy Norris wrote a great book on it, "747: Design and Development" I suggest people read it, and see the amount of negativity that some expressed on the 747 at that time, and see that the a380 is going through the same thing. Well, in my opinion atleast.

achace
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Post by achace »

Well said David747, certainly the 747 was an uncertain starter, but it says a lot for Boeing that they survived the early setbacks, and the 747-400 we currently fly is still a good plane.

Not so certain about the 747-8 passenger version.
At 450 pax. it will be very similar in comfort levels to the -400. If, and it is inevitable, that when the A380 airlines start putting 600 plus on board, it is still going to be far more comfortable than the new 747.

One puzzle someone may have an answer for is that Boeing have announced an increase of 300km in range, and an increase in fuel capacity of 14,000 litres. Sounds like a lot of fuel for such a small range increase?

Regards
achace

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