Vueling violates European Regulation (EC) no. 261/2004

ag894 · Post by **ag894** » 22 Apr 2006, 16:43

The following situation happened to me almost 2 months ago. Since then I have not received any news from Vueling. I am writing this negative statement about Vueling since I consider that given the time passed since the event took place they have had more than enough time to react according to the applicable laws (and actually they did not so far).

The situation:

I bought a flight with Vueling for Friday the 3rd March 2006 on the flight VY4604 departing from Amsterdam at 14:35 and going to Barcelona, with arrival time at 16:40.

At the check-in in Schiphol, around 13:00, I am informed that the flight will be delayed, departing around 18:00-18:30. Reason given are technical problems, the departing airplane has not arrived to Schiphol, and a new airplane will be sent to AMS for taking us to BCN.

After hanging around in the airport for over 4 hours and as the new departing time comes there is still no airplane at the selected gate. Then any information on Vueling VY4604 to BCN disappears from the screens. During all this time there no one from Vueling available to ask so I ahve to go get out to the check-in to see if I can find some information. No Vueling personnel is available at the check-in or in the Vueling desk. In there I met other stranded fellow passangers. Someone says the flight is cancelled and we will be headed to BCN in the flight departing that night at 21:30. A call to the Vueling call center in BCN confirms this point, I also complaint about the lack of information provided and the absence of Vueling around. At the boarding time for the night flight Vueling personnel appears claiming bthey have been re-booking all of us in the night flight. We get our boarding cards for flight VY4606 departing AMS at 21:30.

Finally we depart with some 30 minutes delay and arrive to BCN close to midnight.

For the whole waiting period we have been offered a 6 Euro voucher that could be used in bars or restaurants but not in the supermaket (this means you cannot get the most out of this ridiculous 6 Euros). We ask Vueling personnel to use their phone for making some phone calls but it was denied by Vueling personnel at the Vueling desk in Schiphol.

We were also given a piece of paper apologizing and saying that we will receive a 40 Euro voucher by postal mail to be used only for Vueling flights and within the next 6 months. This has not been received so far.

Summarizing we had a cancelled flight due to technical problems in a Vueling airplane, according to them. We were offered an alternative routing arriving at destination more than 7 hours after the expected arrival time.

What EC regulation says for a flight cancellations under the given circumstances:

- Airline has to offer the choice of reimbursment or re-routing.
- Airline has to provide meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to the waiting time.
- In addition, passengers shall be offered free of charge two telephone calls, telex or fax messages, or e-mails.
- Passengers have the right to compensation by the operating air carrier unless they are informed of the cancellation less than seven days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing, allowing them to depart no more than one hour before the scheduled time of departure
and to reach their final destination less than two hours after the scheduled time of arrival.
- When applicable, passengers shall receive compensation amounting to EUR 250 for all flights of 1 500 kilometres or less.
- The compensation shall be paid in cash, by electronic bank transfer, bank orders or bank cheques or, with the signed agreement of the passenger, in travel vouchers and/or other services.

What we got from Vueling:

- No reimbursment option was offered.
- We got 6 Euro voucher to expend at Schiphol bars and restaurants (my stay in the airport was from 13:00 until boarding arounf 22:00, and had departed to the airport at noon. Lucky me I had some money otherwise I could have died!)
- Phone calls to destination was denied (we did not dare to ask for fax, e-mail or telex. But I had to pay from my pocket the phone calls to inform about the successive delays and situation).
- We were informed of the cancellation at check-in time on the same day (so less than 7 days before scheduled) and arrived to destination more than 7 hours after the scheduled arrival time (so more than 2 hours after the scheduled time). This leads directly to the right of compensation
- No compensation was offered, or even informed that we were allowed to it.
- We were given a paper stating that we will receive a 40 Euro voucher by postal mail in the near future. I did not provide any signed agreement for this voucher (as I would have chosen the cash). I did not even receive the voucher after several weeks despite they have my address in BCN (a letter normally takes 1 or 2 days for being delivered within BCN).

I have written this in the forum for public awareness about irregular behaviour of airlines. I encourage everyone who is 'abused' by airlines to complain publicly and to write to the designated national enforcement bodies for regulation 261/2004.

After this reasonable time given to Vueling for reaction on the cancellation, I will complain to Vueling of course but also to both the Dutch and the Spanish designated bodies. Additionally I will also address DG-TREN in the European Commission.

IT'S THE LAW, IT'S OUR RIGHT!!!!!!!!

For obtaining the regulation, national enforcement bodies and other information on EU passenger rights: http://europa.eu.int/comm/transport/air ... nfo_en.htm

ag894 · Post by **ag894** » 22 Apr 2006, 16:47

I want to add that as very frequent user of airlines (I am KLM Platinum Elite and LH Senator) and despite the number of problems that sometime happen I never had such a situation as described above. Special positive mention for LAN Chile in their overbooking policy (I have experienced excellent treatment by them in FRA in those cases).

Sabena_690 · Post by **Sabena_690** » 22 Apr 2006, 17:55

The only mistake of VLG is the lack of information.

The EU-rules do not apply in case of a cancellation due to technical problems (as far as I know), as you can't really blame VLG for a technical problem with one of their A320s.

You got a food voucher and you should get a 40 EUR flight voucher (although they don't have to hand out additional flight vouchers!!).

You were also rebooked on the next available flight (still on the same day).

Except for the lack of information, you really don't have any ground to complain to the EC.

Ryanair wouldn't even have given you a 6 EUR voucher! They'd delay the flight until a replacement aircraft has been found, refund the flight (inclusive the cancellation of your reservation) or ask you "to come back when there's a free seat on another flight".

You can only complain to the airline, and hope that you will get a refund or some sort of compensation.

Frederic

Sabena_690 · Post by **Sabena_690** » 22 Apr 2006, 18:00

ag894 wrote:I want to add that as very frequent user of airlines (I am KLM Platinum Elite and LH Senator) and despite the number of problems that sometime happen I never had such a situation as described above.

I recently read a trip report of somebody flying from Germany to (I think) Prague with KLM via Amsterdam.

The KLM flight from FRA to AMS was delayed due to snowfall at FRA. When he arrived at AMS, his connecting flight (the last AMS-PRG flight of the day) had already gone.

He was rebooked on the next flight (the next morning), but had to pay for his hotel! The explanation of KLM was that they were not responsible for the delay due to snowfall.

Whatever you try at the EC, VLG will not have to compensate you for a delay due to technical problems with an aircraft...

Frederic

Post by **airbuske** » 22 Apr 2006, 18:10

As a frequent Vueling traveller I never had any problems.

Vueling is a LCC you can't expect the same service
as a full service airline like KLM.
But for a LCC they have a great service , better then
Virgin Express or Ryanair.

You were rebooked on a flight on the same day.
You received a food voucher.
Yes, maybe they could give you some more information.

So no mistake from Vueling:!:

If you would fly Ryanair you would stay at AMS and could find a solution on your one.

ag894 · Post by **ag894** » 22 Apr 2006, 18:16

The trouble and inconvenience to passengers caused by
cancellation of flights should also be reduced. This
should be achieved by inducing carriers to inform
passengers of cancellations before the scheduled time of
departure and in addition to offer them reasonable rerouting,
so that the passengers can make other arrangements.
Air carriers should compensate passengers if they
fail to do this, except when the cancellation occurs in
extraordinary circumstances which could not have been
avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.

Such circumstances may, in particular, occur in cases of political
instability, meteorological conditions incompatible with
the operation of the flight concerned, security risks,
unexpected flight safety shortcomings and strikes that
affect the operation of an operating air carrier.

I don't think a broken airplane is an extraordinary circumstance; and it can also be overcome by planning (other airlines do it). They should account for that with their spare part policy and rent contracts for replacing long term corrective maintenance on service outages (actually they told as that this would happen but it never materialised; although time was sufficient for arranging such option).

Alternatively they could also book people in other carriers so the delay would fall within the one accepted by the law.

I do not want to think about other possibilities ... but we were around 20 people booked on this flight (worth to rent an airplane for that?).

Kaninchen87 · Post by **Kaninchen87** » 22 Apr 2006, 18:20

Hi,

I understand that you're annoyed I would react the same as you did.
But please notice that you fly with a low cost carrier. If you pay less, you get less...That's their spirit.

The only thing I can say is that (in my opinion) Vueling gives a better service than other LCC's. I have never had any problems with VY.

I think you may be lucky that you got a food voucher and will get a discount for your next flight (if you ever fly Vueling again).

Some time ago I've seen a documentary about Ryanair, that company is the worst LCC I've ever seen, it's ridiculous, they really don't care about their passengers, they don't clean their planes, you have nothing to say, no rights at all!

I think it's not Vueling's fault, every flight can be delayed or cancelled, every day, every hour.

The only thing you got right is that they didn't give you any information....But if Vueling didn't get any information either...It's better to tell nothing than to tell lies.

Greetings,
Kaninchen.

ag894 · Post by **ag894** » 22 Apr 2006, 18:21

I also fly weekly with Vueling and their service is normally good, better than other LCC, and possibly there are much worse airlines but this does not preclude that they seriously failed in their customer service that time.

Kaninchen87 · Post by **Kaninchen87** » 22 Apr 2006, 18:27

He was rebooked on the next flight (the next morning), but had to pay for his hotel! The explanation of KLM was that they were not responsible for the delay due to snowfall.

I think that's the way it normally goes.

@ag894
Please read Vueling's Condiciones de Transporte.

Greetings,
Kaninchen.

earthman · Post by **earthman** » 23 Apr 2006, 01:44

Kaninchen87 wrote:
He was rebooked on the next flight (the next morning), but had to pay for his hotel! The explanation of KLM was that they were not responsible for the delay due to snowfall.
I think that's the way it normally goes.

But it shouldn't be! Someone should sue some airline over this. The hotel-until-next-flight is *NOT* in the snowfall/unforseen circumstances clause, the ONLY thing they can get out of is the compensation of 250-600 euro!

Buzz · Post by **Buzz** » 23 Apr 2006, 03:04

Kaninchen87 wrote:Some time ago I've seen a documentary about Ryanair, that company is the worst LCC I've ever seen, it's ridiculous, they really don't care about their passengers, they don't clean their planes, you have nothing to say, no rights at all!

Have you ever flown them? They're no 1st rate airline, but that documentary was 'designed' to affirm every possible clicheé there is about FR. All claims have been officially cotradicted by FR, and more importantly the CAA.
Again, they're far from perfect, but you should take those 'documetaries' with a BIG bag of salt...

airazurxtror · Post by **airazurxtror** » 23 Apr 2006, 13:20

Sabena_690 wrote:The only mistake of VLG is the lack of information.

The EU-rules do not apply in case of a cancellation due to technical problems (as far as I know), as you can't really blame VLG for a technical problem with one of their A320s.

Except for the lack of information, you really don't have any ground to complain to the EC.

Ryanair wouldn't even have given you a 6 EUR voucher! They'd delay the flight until a replacement aircraft has been found, refund the flight (inclusive the cancellation of your reservation) or ask you "to come back when there's a free seat on another flight".

You can only complain to the airline, and hope that you will get a refund or some sort of compensation.

Frederic

If airlines are not responsible for keeping their aircraft in working order and for their staff to be competent, I just wonder for what they could be held responsible ?
But what is most exasperating is that the staff won't give clear and honest information. Of course, it is not pleasant to have to tell the passengers their flight will be 5 or 6 hours late. It's far more easy to speak of one or two hours, and then disappear. The next shift will have to cope with the furious passengers, but will be able to tell they are not responsible of the mess, and that the culprits are gone !

As for the traditional quip about Ryanair : I have never had a Ryanair flight cancelled, (I have notched only 67 flights with them until now).
When a FR flight is cancelled, according to what I have heard, the passengers are quickly informed of it, and rebooked on the next available flight. No waiting for half a day with false - or no - informations !
And they know very well that in the meantime, they will have to manage by themselves. Everybody is aware of it, MOL makes it very clear. I don't know if it is the same with Vueling.

Post by **sn26567** » 24 Apr 2006, 09:27

Sabena_690 wrote:The EU-rules do not apply in case of a cancellation due to technical problems (as far as I know), as you can't really blame VLG for a technical problem with one of their A320s.

I do not agree. Technical problems can usually be related to a lack of maintenance, a wrong manoeuver during maintenance or a shortage of spare parts. All clearly within the responsibility of the airline.

cherdt · Post by **cherdt** » 24 Apr 2006, 10:02

Even if they are usually related to lack of maintenance, etc....you can't be sure that this was the case here ! If we don't know the details we can't judge.

Tommypilot · Post by **Tommypilot** » 24 Apr 2006, 11:24

sn26567 wrote:Technical problems can usually be related to a lack of maintenance, a wrong manoeuver during maintenance or a shortage of spare parts

I do not agree. Technical problems are "common" with all kind of airplanes and/or airlines...every technician and/or pilot can assure that to you I think. An engine that falls out in the sky(and wich is not rare for a company)...THEN you can THINK about a lack of maintenance...

The less you pay, the less you receive...

But no responsible and/or people of the company and/or information given is unacceptable, for every airline and is clearly stated in every kind of air travel regulation.

And about RYR...pls guys...I think you all know which role the media sometimes plays in our life?