:censored: :censored: GoneThanks to the Guys
This is too important to all of us.
Common sense and respect SHALL prevail.
Another Airbus rudder problem??
Moderator: Latest news team
While very little new information/coverage has appeared in the media since the Newsday coverage previously posted, this subject continues to draw unprecedented attention in Internet aviation discussion forums.
The Canadian Transportation Safety Board continues its investigation with no public announcements. This process is certain to be an absolutely thorough dissection of every pertinent aspect of the event.
Two factors are reassuring for anyone who is familiar with the TSB's approach, the first (in stark contrast to that of its cousin to the south, the NTSB), being its resistance to lobbying by interested parties. At the end of the NTSB's investigation of AA587, the NTSB chairwoman Ellen Engleman Conners was publically quoted criticising the lobbying by Airbus throughout the process. “That’s not an appropriate thing to be happening...The potential for contaminating the investigation exists” In stark contrast, the Canadian Transportation Safety Board displayed no qualms and publically stepped on numerous toes during and at the conclusion of its investigation of the Swissair disaster. The second reassuring factor is that the Swissair investigation also demonstrated the tenacity of the TSB, sparing no cost, effort nor time to pursue the process to conclusion.
http://www.bst.gc.ca/en/reports/air/199 ... 8h0003.asp
http://www.bst.gc.ca/en/media/photo_dat ... covery.asp
http://www.bst.gc.ca/en/media/photo_dat ... uction.asp
While the Canadian Transportation Safety Board has made no public pronouncement to date, it has responded to individual media queries. Contacted by The Wave, a community newspaper in Rockaway N.Y. (scene of the AA587 crash) which has provided very extensive coverage of that event (and continues to do so), a TSB spokesperson stated "We have the U.S. Coast Guard looking for the tail in the coastal waters between Cuba and Florida”, and that "the investigation could take up to two years to complete". http://www.rockawave.com
While no details of the event have been found in print media, a participant of another discussion forum posted on March 7 (the day after the incident) details being recounted by Air Transat passengers on a local (Quebec) radio program: "About 30 min in the flight, loud noise in the back, plane attidude goes beserk...plane shook hard, dropped quickly a few thousand feet and control was regained". In another discussion forum, a Canadian participant describing himself as a retired corporate pilot posted "I know one of the pax on the flight. He says there was a loud bang, followed by vibration serious enough that some doors on the overhead bins opened."
Scary stuff
So, while C-GPAT awaits a new rudder
we'll keep our ears to the ground for more info.....
The Canadian Transportation Safety Board continues its investigation with no public announcements. This process is certain to be an absolutely thorough dissection of every pertinent aspect of the event.
Two factors are reassuring for anyone who is familiar with the TSB's approach, the first (in stark contrast to that of its cousin to the south, the NTSB), being its resistance to lobbying by interested parties. At the end of the NTSB's investigation of AA587, the NTSB chairwoman Ellen Engleman Conners was publically quoted criticising the lobbying by Airbus throughout the process. “That’s not an appropriate thing to be happening...The potential for contaminating the investigation exists” In stark contrast, the Canadian Transportation Safety Board displayed no qualms and publically stepped on numerous toes during and at the conclusion of its investigation of the Swissair disaster. The second reassuring factor is that the Swissair investigation also demonstrated the tenacity of the TSB, sparing no cost, effort nor time to pursue the process to conclusion.
http://www.bst.gc.ca/en/reports/air/199 ... 8h0003.asp
http://www.bst.gc.ca/en/media/photo_dat ... covery.asp
http://www.bst.gc.ca/en/media/photo_dat ... uction.asp
While the Canadian Transportation Safety Board has made no public pronouncement to date, it has responded to individual media queries. Contacted by The Wave, a community newspaper in Rockaway N.Y. (scene of the AA587 crash) which has provided very extensive coverage of that event (and continues to do so), a TSB spokesperson stated "We have the U.S. Coast Guard looking for the tail in the coastal waters between Cuba and Florida”, and that "the investigation could take up to two years to complete". http://www.rockawave.com
While no details of the event have been found in print media, a participant of another discussion forum posted on March 7 (the day after the incident) details being recounted by Air Transat passengers on a local (Quebec) radio program: "About 30 min in the flight, loud noise in the back, plane attidude goes beserk...plane shook hard, dropped quickly a few thousand feet and control was regained". In another discussion forum, a Canadian participant describing himself as a retired corporate pilot posted "I know one of the pax on the flight. He says there was a loud bang, followed by vibration serious enough that some doors on the overhead bins opened."
Scary stuff
So, while C-GPAT awaits a new rudder
we'll keep our ears to the ground for more info.....
Some new concerns have come to light, regarding composites and their use in the A380 as well as possible failures on AA 587.
http://www.ndt.net/news/2005/20050501a380.htm
http://www.ndt.net/news/2005/20050501a380.htm
25/04/2005
Canadian Transportation Safety Board releases first report.....among other findings, DELAMINATION DAMAGE TO THE TWO REAR ATTACHMENT LUGS OF THE VERTICAL TAILPLANE (STABILIZER)................very interesting when compared to the AA587 findings!!!!!!! No wonder there are strong rumors about the re-opening of that investigation. There are also suggestions being heard in the industry of a design flaw in the stabilizer/rudder.
Investigation Update on the Transportation Safety Board of Canada Investigation into Air Transat Flight 961 Loss of Rudder Occurrence (A05F0047)
(Gatineau, Quebec, 04 May 2005) - The Transportation Safety Board of Canada (TSB) provided an update today into its investigation of Air Transat Flight 961.
Aviation Investigation Update
Loss of Rudder
Airbus 310-308
Air Transat Flight 961
Varadero, Cuba
06 March 2005
Investigation Update Number A05F0047
Investigation Organization
On 06 March 2005, Air Transat Flight 961, an Airbus 310-308, Canadian registration C-GPAT, serial number 597, lost the major part of its rudder while in flight from Varadero, Cuba, to Québec City, Canada. The flight returned to Varadero where an uneventful landing was carried out.
The Transportation Safety Board of Canada (TSB) was notified of the accident at 11001 and responded by deploying two investigators from the Dorval, Canada, regional office and one investigator from the TSB Engineering Laboratory in Ottawa, Canada. Because the event occurred over international waters, Canada, as the State of Registry, is conducting the investigation.
The investigation team is composed of the following five main groups: operational, air traffic control (ATC), human factor, technical, performance, and recorders group. Four subgroups under the technical group have been established; a system group, a structure and maintenance group, a maintenance records group, and a manufacturing group. The Bureau d'Enquêtes et d'Analyses pour la Sécurité de l'Aviation Civile (BEA) of France, the German Federal Bureau of Aircraft Accidents Investigation (BFU), and the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) of the United States assigned accredited representatives to participate in the investigation. Technical advisors from Airbus, Transport Canada, the Direction Générale de l'Aviation Civile (DGAC), the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the German Aerospace Center (DLR), and Air Transat are also participating and assisting in the investigation.
Factual Information
The A310-308, operated by Air Transat, was on a charter flight from Varadero, Cuba, to Québec City, Canada, with a crew of 9 and 261 passengers on board. While at an altitude of 35 000 feet, the flight crew heard a loud bang with simultaneous vibrations that lasted a few seconds. The aircraft entered a periodic rolling and yawing motion known as dutch roll that decreased as the aircraft descended to a lower altitude. Once the aircraft reached about 19 000 feet, the flight crew had no indication of any abnormalities from systems monitoring. The flight crew considered landing at Fort Lauderdale, Florida, but elected to return to Varadero where an uneventful landing was carried out. It is only once on the ground that the flight crew noted during a visual inspection that a major part of the rudder was missing. There were no fatalities. One flight attendant sustained minor injuries.
The investigation team observed that only the lower rudder spar and the base rib of the rudder were remaining. Less than five per cent of the total rudder surface actually remained attached to the spar. The rudder is attached to the vertical fin through seven A-frame hinges, numbered one to seven, starting from the bottom. The remaining parts of the rudder were attached to the vertical fin's rear spar by the actuators and the four lower rudder hinges. Hinges five and six were were still in place on the fin spar, but only the attachment fittings of the rudder were attached to them. The rudder position sensor was still attached to the remaining piece of the rudder. Rudder hinge number seven was torn off from the fin spar.
The panels that cover the rudder are made of carbon fibre reinforced plastic (CFRP). The panels were manufactured in 1991 by Soko in Mostar, former Yugoslavia. The rudder panels (serial number 1331) were assembled at Airbus facilities in Stade, Germany, and then installed on the aircraft in 1992. The aircraft had accumulated 49 224 flight hours since manufactured in 1992.
The flight data recorder (FDR), the cockpit voice recorder (CVR), and the digital AIDS (aircraft integrated data system) recorder (DAR) were sent to the TSB Engineering Laboratory for downloads of all data recorded to determine the sequence of events and the contributing factors of this event. The work is still in progress.
On 19 March 2005, the vertical tailplane (VTP) and the rudder were transported from Cuba to Bremen, Germany, for further examination. The VTP, to which the rudder is attached, is bolted to the top of the fuselage by six attachment lugs. The VTP was subject to ultrasonic inspection, which revealed delamination damage to the two rear attachment lugs. Loads and aeroelastic models are being formulated to evaluate the noted damage. An elasticity laminate checker (ELCH) test on sample in-service rudders is also in progress to check rudder panels in depth, from the outer skin to the inner skin. This test will provide information on rudder skin and core damage over a sampling, ranging from 13-year-old rudders to more recent rudders. At this time, one test has been carried out on one of the selected rudders, and no discrepancies have been found.
The rudder control systems were checked and tested in Varadero with no anomalies found. The three servo-controls that control rudder movement were inspected and tested at Goodrich facilities in Paris, France, during the second week of April. Rudder servo-control spring rods were also investigated in Airbus facilities in Hamburg, Germany, and no deficiencies were found.
Maintenance and technical records of the aircraft are being reviewed by the maintenance and records group to determine if any past maintenance activities on the aircraft, or if any past reported operational events may have played a role in the detachment of the rudder.
Safety Action Taken
Following the event, a number of actions have been taken. On 17 March 2005, Airbus produced an All Operator Telex (AOT) to verify the structural integrity of the rudder and its attachment by means of a one-time detailed visual inspection and tap test inspection as a precautionary measure. On 18 March 2005, the Direction Générale de l'Aviation Civile (DGAC) of France issued an Emergency Airworthiness Directive (EAD) that includes mandatory actions and compliance times to perform inspection and apply corrective measures if necessary in accordance with the instructions specified in the Airbus AOT. On 28 March 2005, the FAA issued a similar Airworthiness Directive (AD). All results and feedback from these mandatory inspections are being compiled by Airbus.
Once validated safety deficiencies are identified during the course of an investigation, the Board can, at any time during the investigation, recommend action designed to reduce or eliminate such deficiencies from the transportation system.
Investigation Plan
There is still a considerable amount of work to be done to bring this investigation to a conclusion by the Board. In the following months, further ELCH tests will continue on other rudders of the defined samples to check rudder panels in depth, from outer to inner skin, and to measure rudder structural rigidity. The preparation of the draft report will take months to be completed with emphasis on the analysis of collected factual information gathered by the detailed examination of the failed rudder, the fin box lugs, the AOT and ELCH test results and any appropriate investigation work.
When the investigation team's draft report is complete, it will be reviewed by the Investigation Branch Standards and Performance section, and approved by the Director, Air Investigations. The draft report will then be submitted to the Board for its approval and released as a confidential draft report to designated reviewers. The Board will consider the representations of the designated reviewers, amend the report if required, and issue the final investigation report.
http://www.news.gc.ca/cfmx/CCP/view/en/ ... eid=143369
http://www.tsb.gc.ca/en/reports/air/200 ... 050504.asp
Canadian Transportation Safety Board releases first report.....among other findings, DELAMINATION DAMAGE TO THE TWO REAR ATTACHMENT LUGS OF THE VERTICAL TAILPLANE (STABILIZER)................very interesting when compared to the AA587 findings!!!!!!! No wonder there are strong rumors about the re-opening of that investigation. There are also suggestions being heard in the industry of a design flaw in the stabilizer/rudder.
Investigation Update on the Transportation Safety Board of Canada Investigation into Air Transat Flight 961 Loss of Rudder Occurrence (A05F0047)
(Gatineau, Quebec, 04 May 2005) - The Transportation Safety Board of Canada (TSB) provided an update today into its investigation of Air Transat Flight 961.
Aviation Investigation Update
Loss of Rudder
Airbus 310-308
Air Transat Flight 961
Varadero, Cuba
06 March 2005
Investigation Update Number A05F0047
Investigation Organization
On 06 March 2005, Air Transat Flight 961, an Airbus 310-308, Canadian registration C-GPAT, serial number 597, lost the major part of its rudder while in flight from Varadero, Cuba, to Québec City, Canada. The flight returned to Varadero where an uneventful landing was carried out.
The Transportation Safety Board of Canada (TSB) was notified of the accident at 11001 and responded by deploying two investigators from the Dorval, Canada, regional office and one investigator from the TSB Engineering Laboratory in Ottawa, Canada. Because the event occurred over international waters, Canada, as the State of Registry, is conducting the investigation.
The investigation team is composed of the following five main groups: operational, air traffic control (ATC), human factor, technical, performance, and recorders group. Four subgroups under the technical group have been established; a system group, a structure and maintenance group, a maintenance records group, and a manufacturing group. The Bureau d'Enquêtes et d'Analyses pour la Sécurité de l'Aviation Civile (BEA) of France, the German Federal Bureau of Aircraft Accidents Investigation (BFU), and the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) of the United States assigned accredited representatives to participate in the investigation. Technical advisors from Airbus, Transport Canada, the Direction Générale de l'Aviation Civile (DGAC), the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the German Aerospace Center (DLR), and Air Transat are also participating and assisting in the investigation.
Factual Information
The A310-308, operated by Air Transat, was on a charter flight from Varadero, Cuba, to Québec City, Canada, with a crew of 9 and 261 passengers on board. While at an altitude of 35 000 feet, the flight crew heard a loud bang with simultaneous vibrations that lasted a few seconds. The aircraft entered a periodic rolling and yawing motion known as dutch roll that decreased as the aircraft descended to a lower altitude. Once the aircraft reached about 19 000 feet, the flight crew had no indication of any abnormalities from systems monitoring. The flight crew considered landing at Fort Lauderdale, Florida, but elected to return to Varadero where an uneventful landing was carried out. It is only once on the ground that the flight crew noted during a visual inspection that a major part of the rudder was missing. There were no fatalities. One flight attendant sustained minor injuries.
The investigation team observed that only the lower rudder spar and the base rib of the rudder were remaining. Less than five per cent of the total rudder surface actually remained attached to the spar. The rudder is attached to the vertical fin through seven A-frame hinges, numbered one to seven, starting from the bottom. The remaining parts of the rudder were attached to the vertical fin's rear spar by the actuators and the four lower rudder hinges. Hinges five and six were were still in place on the fin spar, but only the attachment fittings of the rudder were attached to them. The rudder position sensor was still attached to the remaining piece of the rudder. Rudder hinge number seven was torn off from the fin spar.
The panels that cover the rudder are made of carbon fibre reinforced plastic (CFRP). The panels were manufactured in 1991 by Soko in Mostar, former Yugoslavia. The rudder panels (serial number 1331) were assembled at Airbus facilities in Stade, Germany, and then installed on the aircraft in 1992. The aircraft had accumulated 49 224 flight hours since manufactured in 1992.
The flight data recorder (FDR), the cockpit voice recorder (CVR), and the digital AIDS (aircraft integrated data system) recorder (DAR) were sent to the TSB Engineering Laboratory for downloads of all data recorded to determine the sequence of events and the contributing factors of this event. The work is still in progress.
On 19 March 2005, the vertical tailplane (VTP) and the rudder were transported from Cuba to Bremen, Germany, for further examination. The VTP, to which the rudder is attached, is bolted to the top of the fuselage by six attachment lugs. The VTP was subject to ultrasonic inspection, which revealed delamination damage to the two rear attachment lugs. Loads and aeroelastic models are being formulated to evaluate the noted damage. An elasticity laminate checker (ELCH) test on sample in-service rudders is also in progress to check rudder panels in depth, from the outer skin to the inner skin. This test will provide information on rudder skin and core damage over a sampling, ranging from 13-year-old rudders to more recent rudders. At this time, one test has been carried out on one of the selected rudders, and no discrepancies have been found.
The rudder control systems were checked and tested in Varadero with no anomalies found. The three servo-controls that control rudder movement were inspected and tested at Goodrich facilities in Paris, France, during the second week of April. Rudder servo-control spring rods were also investigated in Airbus facilities in Hamburg, Germany, and no deficiencies were found.
Maintenance and technical records of the aircraft are being reviewed by the maintenance and records group to determine if any past maintenance activities on the aircraft, or if any past reported operational events may have played a role in the detachment of the rudder.
Safety Action Taken
Following the event, a number of actions have been taken. On 17 March 2005, Airbus produced an All Operator Telex (AOT) to verify the structural integrity of the rudder and its attachment by means of a one-time detailed visual inspection and tap test inspection as a precautionary measure. On 18 March 2005, the Direction Générale de l'Aviation Civile (DGAC) of France issued an Emergency Airworthiness Directive (EAD) that includes mandatory actions and compliance times to perform inspection and apply corrective measures if necessary in accordance with the instructions specified in the Airbus AOT. On 28 March 2005, the FAA issued a similar Airworthiness Directive (AD). All results and feedback from these mandatory inspections are being compiled by Airbus.
Once validated safety deficiencies are identified during the course of an investigation, the Board can, at any time during the investigation, recommend action designed to reduce or eliminate such deficiencies from the transportation system.
Investigation Plan
There is still a considerable amount of work to be done to bring this investigation to a conclusion by the Board. In the following months, further ELCH tests will continue on other rudders of the defined samples to check rudder panels in depth, from outer to inner skin, and to measure rudder structural rigidity. The preparation of the draft report will take months to be completed with emphasis on the analysis of collected factual information gathered by the detailed examination of the failed rudder, the fin box lugs, the AOT and ELCH test results and any appropriate investigation work.
When the investigation team's draft report is complete, it will be reviewed by the Investigation Branch Standards and Performance section, and approved by the Director, Air Investigations. The draft report will then be submitted to the Board for its approval and released as a confidential draft report to designated reviewers. The Board will consider the representations of the designated reviewers, amend the report if required, and issue the final investigation report.
http://www.news.gc.ca/cfmx/CCP/view/en/ ... eid=143369
http://www.tsb.gc.ca/en/reports/air/200 ... 050504.asp
Photos may aid rudder investigation....
"Probably there was damage to the rudder prior to the separation"....international plane spotters' photos appear to show abnormalities...
http://www.sptimes.com/2005/05/05/World ... dder.shtml
"Probably there was damage to the rudder prior to the separation"....international plane spotters' photos appear to show abnormalities...
http://www.sptimes.com/2005/05/05/World ... dder.shtml
25 years later? And do you know how many Airbus are flying with a Composite Rudder without any problems?bits44 wrote:Some new concerns have come to light, regarding composites and their use in the A380 as well as possible failures on AA 587.
http://www.ndt.net/news/2005/20050501a380.htm
teach wrote:Nope, but I know how many aren't flying because of composite rudder problems,
Well then, please share. How many? And please don't forget to include your sources.
I would suggest you do your homework like everyone else has, maybe do some reading, all the answers are there in plain view.
This topic has all the evidence already posted, if you would like some sources, there is the Canadian Transportation Safety Board, the NTSB of the U.S. , Airbus, Net Composites, Rockwell Aviation, it goes on ad infinitum.
If you want to make some intelligent contributions, please feel free, however if you're just going to play games, neither I or anyone else in this forum has time to play with you.
Translation: I have nothing.I would suggest you do your homework like everyone else has, maybe do some reading, all the answers are there in plain view.
This has nothing to do with playing games, and you know it.If you want to make some intelligent contributions, please feel free, however if you're just going to play games, neither I or anyone else in this forum has time to play with you.
I'll repeat my question: HOW MANY Airbus planes are currently 'not flying' because of composite rudder problems. And no, that question was not answered on here. So, a number and source, that's all I ask.
NTSB ADVISORY
National Transportation Safety Board
Washington, DC 20594
May 5, 2005
**************************************************
NTSB CONTINUES TO ASSIST CANADIAN GOVERNMENT'S INVESTIGATION INTO AIR TRANSAT ACCIDENT
**************************************************
The National Transportation Safety Board continues to assist the Transportation Safety Board of Canada as it investigates an accident that occurred March 6, 2005, when an Air Transat Airbus A310-308 (C-GPAT) lost most of its rudder in-flight while en-route from Cuba to Quebec City, Canada.
The NTSB has dispatched a team of investigators to participate in the readout of the aircraft's flight recorders and the development of aircraft performance studies; to participate in the examination of the aircraft's vertical stabilizer, remnants of the rudder, and rudder actuators; and to work with the TSB's chief investigator in developing the issues to be addressed in the investigation.
Canadian authorities issued an investigation update on May 4 that can be accessed at www.tsb.gc.ca, under "What's New."
Based on information released by the TSB, NTSB investigators have noted significant differences between the circumstances of the Air Transat accident and two previous accidents investigated by the NTSB that also involved structural damage to composite components on Airbus aircraft.
On November 12, 2001, American Airlines flight 587, an A300-605R (N14053), crashed shortly after takeoff from John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York City, killing all 260 persons aboard and 5 persons on the ground. The NTSB found that the vertical stabilizer separated from the aircraft in flight after experiencing aerodynamic loads beyond the plane's design strength following the first officer's unnecessary and excessive rudder pedal inputs. On May 12, 1997, American Airlines flight 903, an A300-600 (N90070), experienced an in-flight loss of control near West Palm Beach, Florida. The aircraft landed safely. During the recovery of the aircraft, the significant rudder pedal inputs led to aerodynamic loads that caused damage to the vertical stabilizer. The damage was not discovered until an ultrasonic examination of the stabilizer following the crash of flight 587.
In both of those cases, significant rudder inputs by pilots played a major role in producing the aerodynamic loads on the vertical stabilizer. Preliminary indications from the Air Transat event data show that the pilots were not manipulating the rudder before the events leading up to the loss of the rudder.
Furthermore, NTSB investigators note that in the flight 903 accident the rudder remained attached to the vertical fin and no significant damage was found on the rudder after the event. In the case of the flight 587 accident, the data indicate that the rudder remained intact and attached to the vertical fin until the fin separated from the airplane.
The NTSB will continue to participate and assist the TSB of Canada's investigation into the reason for the loss of the Air Transat rudder, and will continue to compare data from the earlier accidents to determine whether there are any similarities between all three events (beyond the fact that all three aircraft experienced damage to rear lugs of the vertical stabilizer).
All media inquiries about the Air Transat investigation should be directed to Mr. John Cottreau, Public Affairs Advisor, Transportation Safety Board of Canada, (819) 994-8053, John.Cottreau@tsb.gc.ca.
- 30 -
NTSB Media Contact:
Ted Lopatkiewicz
(202) 314-6100
lopatt@ntsb.gov
National Transportation Safety Board
Washington, DC 20594
May 5, 2005
**************************************************
NTSB CONTINUES TO ASSIST CANADIAN GOVERNMENT'S INVESTIGATION INTO AIR TRANSAT ACCIDENT
**************************************************
The National Transportation Safety Board continues to assist the Transportation Safety Board of Canada as it investigates an accident that occurred March 6, 2005, when an Air Transat Airbus A310-308 (C-GPAT) lost most of its rudder in-flight while en-route from Cuba to Quebec City, Canada.
The NTSB has dispatched a team of investigators to participate in the readout of the aircraft's flight recorders and the development of aircraft performance studies; to participate in the examination of the aircraft's vertical stabilizer, remnants of the rudder, and rudder actuators; and to work with the TSB's chief investigator in developing the issues to be addressed in the investigation.
Canadian authorities issued an investigation update on May 4 that can be accessed at www.tsb.gc.ca, under "What's New."
Based on information released by the TSB, NTSB investigators have noted significant differences between the circumstances of the Air Transat accident and two previous accidents investigated by the NTSB that also involved structural damage to composite components on Airbus aircraft.
On November 12, 2001, American Airlines flight 587, an A300-605R (N14053), crashed shortly after takeoff from John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York City, killing all 260 persons aboard and 5 persons on the ground. The NTSB found that the vertical stabilizer separated from the aircraft in flight after experiencing aerodynamic loads beyond the plane's design strength following the first officer's unnecessary and excessive rudder pedal inputs. On May 12, 1997, American Airlines flight 903, an A300-600 (N90070), experienced an in-flight loss of control near West Palm Beach, Florida. The aircraft landed safely. During the recovery of the aircraft, the significant rudder pedal inputs led to aerodynamic loads that caused damage to the vertical stabilizer. The damage was not discovered until an ultrasonic examination of the stabilizer following the crash of flight 587.
In both of those cases, significant rudder inputs by pilots played a major role in producing the aerodynamic loads on the vertical stabilizer. Preliminary indications from the Air Transat event data show that the pilots were not manipulating the rudder before the events leading up to the loss of the rudder.
Furthermore, NTSB investigators note that in the flight 903 accident the rudder remained attached to the vertical fin and no significant damage was found on the rudder after the event. In the case of the flight 587 accident, the data indicate that the rudder remained intact and attached to the vertical fin until the fin separated from the airplane.
The NTSB will continue to participate and assist the TSB of Canada's investigation into the reason for the loss of the Air Transat rudder, and will continue to compare data from the earlier accidents to determine whether there are any similarities between all three events (beyond the fact that all three aircraft experienced damage to rear lugs of the vertical stabilizer).
All media inquiries about the Air Transat investigation should be directed to Mr. John Cottreau, Public Affairs Advisor, Transportation Safety Board of Canada, (819) 994-8053, John.Cottreau@tsb.gc.ca.
- 30 -
NTSB Media Contact:
Ted Lopatkiewicz
(202) 314-6100
lopatt@ntsb.gov
Well, my conclusion is very simple: Your stance here is based on a mixture of bluff, your own interpretation of reports, and a good dose of bias. How do I know? Because when your bluff is called and I ask for proof, you do everything you can to avoid having to actually answer the question and show the proof. And why is that? Because you don't have any.Yep! go right ahead!
Sure, you'll say you do, and you'll throw some lame 'if you had done your homework you'd have seen the light' crap at me, but it still doesn't change a thing about the fact that you ... just ... don't ... have ... anything.
Oh, one more thing: In this kind of thing the burden of proof is on the accuser, i.e. YOU. YOU'RE the one throwing the accusations around, YOU prove 'em.
As is yours. You again fail to back your point up and answer the question, but we're starting to get used to that.Your reply is exactly as expected!
You're very lucky to be on such a small board as this one, where there aren't a lot of critical people. If you would take these accusations to a board like a.net, it would be a matter of minutes before you were shot down by a few dozen users...
Cut the crap, please, guys.
2 points of interest:
why would airbus install rudders on its new airplanes? It has just been proven you don't need the thing.
secondly: spotters spotted this plane with lines on the rudder that could be interpreted as cracks, flaws, faults,...But when will we see pictures from spotters that spotted the culprit rudder itself? It must be floating somewhere in the carabean. So when you all keep on filling your memory cards with pictures out of the airplanes and study the pictures while you are having a pina colada at the beach, you might spot the famous rudder.
Seriously speaking: reading the reports, I was a bit surprised to read that a yugoslavian company made the default part - oops - mistake, not default but missing. Untill further notice.
2 points of interest:
why would airbus install rudders on its new airplanes? It has just been proven you don't need the thing.
secondly: spotters spotted this plane with lines on the rudder that could be interpreted as cracks, flaws, faults,...But when will we see pictures from spotters that spotted the culprit rudder itself? It must be floating somewhere in the carabean. So when you all keep on filling your memory cards with pictures out of the airplanes and study the pictures while you are having a pina colada at the beach, you might spot the famous rudder.
Seriously speaking: reading the reports, I was a bit surprised to read that a yugoslavian company made the default part - oops - mistake, not default but missing. Untill further notice.
NTSB Has released a recall advisory for A300 Series.
NTSB has released an Airworthiness Directive for Airbus A300 series of aircraft.
http://www.ntsb.gov/recs/letters/2006/A06_27_28.pdf
http://www.ntsb.gov/recs/letters/2006/A06_27_28.pdf
There are no strangers in the world, just friends we have yet to meet.
Just a side note, I thought it was the FAA not the NTSB who issues an Airworthiness Directive?? In which case, the FAA would have to accept the recommendations of the NTSB, meaning that nothing has to be done until the FAA implements the AD. Am I stating this correctly?? If so, I hope the FAA does the right thing and complies with the NTSB's findings. Nice reporting bits!!NTSB has released an Airworthiness Directive for Airbus A300 series of aircraft.
"What's this button do?? I don't know, push it and find out................."