Boeings new proposed Blended Wing Body

bits44 · Post by **bits44** » 27 Feb 2006, 06:07

The Shape of the future ??????

http://www.aerosite.net/content/view/69/40/

CX · Post by CX » 27 Feb 2006, 07:43

I saw this more than 2 years ago on that magazine called 'SCIENTIFIC' or 'science and technology', forgot...

2010? I dont' think so, there are lots of problems with such aircraft, one major one is there is no stability and like the B2 bomber, a lot of expensive electronics and software needs to be put in to stabilise it, so 2010? you got to be dreaming!

But as I saw some 2 years ago, such shaped aircrafts will outperform current aircrafts, so it will take over in the future... but the thing won't be comfortable right? you can't fit a lot of window seats there, and you might have something like 20 seats abreast...

lastrow · Post by **lastrow** » 27 Feb 2006, 09:54

yes, 2010 sounds ambitious. BTW, there is a German University who cooperates with Airbus on this kind of jet. They have actually a 2m model flying.

http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/0,553 ... _3,00.html

(it is picture no. 3)

However they this kind of technology is targeted for 2030. so, firstflight maybe 2020? A lot of (airport) facilities must be changed in order to accomodate these birds.

-lr

regi · Post by **regi** » 27 Feb 2006, 10:59

I have seen drawings of such a design from the 1920-ies. With a lot of propellors, but the same basic idea.

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 27 Feb 2006, 15:03

This is definitely going to happen in the future. But as has been said before, 2010 seems too ambitious. I'd say between 2015 and 2020.

Chris

stevie · Post by **stevie** » 27 Feb 2006, 15:15

I doubt that it will be true

first seen if they can 'fil' the A380 whit passengers

maybe they can use the new plane for germany-china?
paris-china? I don't now

and how expesive will the flight be??

flying greets

earthman · Post by **earthman** » 27 Feb 2006, 17:51

The point of BWB designs is that they are much more efficient than regular planes, thus it will cost less to operate than a normal plane with similar capacity.

liebensd · Post by **liebensd** » 27 Feb 2006, 18:53

The point of BWB designs is that they are much more efficient than regular planes, thus it will cost less to operate than a normal plane with similar capacity.

But cost a lot more to design. Everything is different than a normal aircraft, this will require a lot of testing and new design technics to do the job.

Greetz,

Dave

DFW · Post by **DFW** » 27 Feb 2006, 19:21

Sure, the technology exists to have such an airplane flying by 2010-2015. But the bigger issue is whether a market would ever materialize for such an airplane. I don't think it would (at least not within the next 20 years), and here's why:

Consider the computer industy. 10-15 years ago, technology prophets were predicting that network computers would make desktop computers obsolete. Network computers are nothing more than terminals that connect to a remote central server, thus eliminating the need for hard drives, software, Microsoft, etc. on each network computer. The economy of scale by network computers meant the death of desktop computers. But this never happened. Technology advanced so rapidly that desktop computers got cheaper and cheaper and better and better. The promised economy of scale of network computers became less and less of a sure thing. Add to that argument the fact that network computers require huge startup costs.

Now back to airplanes. Boeing and Airbus are both pushing advances in design and manufacturing technology to make airplanes better and cheaper. China and Russia will soon become tier one suppliers, ensuring that prices remain in check or even decline. And the startup costs of the BWB airplane are gigantic for airports as well as the manufacturer.

I just don't see it happening.

earthman · Post by **earthman** » 27 Feb 2006, 21:10

Do not underestimate the power of high fuel prices, where even ridiculous ideas start to make economic sense. Does anybody have efficiency numbers of BWB vs. regular planes?

lastrow · Post by **lastrow** » 27 Feb 2006, 22:38

DFW wrote:Consider the computer industy. 10-15 years ago, technology prophets were predicting that network computers would make desktop computers obsolete. Network computers are nothing more than terminals that connect to a remote central server, thus eliminating the need for hard drives, software, Microsoft, etc. on each network computer. The economy of scale by network computers meant the death of desktop computers. But this never happened. Technology advanced so rapidly that desktop computers got cheaper and cheaper and better and better. The promised economy of scale of network computers became less and less of a sure thing. Add to that argument the fact that network computers require huge startup costs.

it is about airlanes here, but regarding your view on the computer industry ... there are a couple of examples that actually resembled the network computer idea:

- The Sun Ray
- thin clients in general, you see them at travel offices, airports, enterprises
- The Citrix Solution
- solutions that build upon VMware server or Microsoft Virtual PC server
- ...

and actually looking at today's enterprises this trend is growing. probably you had a different idea in mind when you wrote your comment above like "network computers never fully replaced desktop computers as some few people were tempted to predict"

?

-lr.

Andries · Post by **Andries** » 28 Feb 2006, 00:15

Avro wrote:say between 2015 and 2020.

Even THAT is very ambitious ! My guess would be somewhere around 2040 - 2050 ...
Noticed the size of the wingspan ? 88m ... After the 747 and the A380, thsi will probably be the next aircraft that airports will need to adjust too ...

Greetz,

Andries

GE90 · Post by **GE90** » 28 Feb 2006, 01:47

Good background and economics projection here

http://www.aoe.vt.edu/research/groups/b ... rcraft.pdf

Now we need some really big, really efficient engines, Hmmm...

CX · Post by CX » 28 Feb 2006, 06:32

Probably all comercial aircrafts in the skies will look like that in the future... but man, only about 50 seats out of the whole plane gets a window seat, probably only for first class or something... by then we will remember how lucky we are now sitting next to a window in economy class..~

ehamspotter · Post by **ehamspotter** » 28 Feb 2006, 12:24

Hello;

BWEEK, this is so UGLY :pukey:
It more looks like an UFO.
I hope they NEVER going to build that flying thing!!!!( you can't' call it an airplane)

rgds:Jeroen

earthman · Post by **earthman** » 28 Feb 2006, 20:28

lastrow wrote:
DFW wrote:Consider the computer industy. 10-15 years ago, technology prophets were predicting that network computers would make desktop computers obsolete. Network computers are nothing more than terminals that connect to a remote central server, thus eliminating the need for hard drives, software, Microsoft, etc. on each network computer. The economy of scale by network computers meant the death of desktop computers. But this never happened. Technology advanced so rapidly that desktop computers got cheaper and cheaper and better and better. The promised economy of scale of network computers became less and less of a sure thing. Add to that argument the fact that network computers require huge startup costs.

it is about airlanes here, but regarding your view on the computer industry ... there are a couple of examples that actually resembled the network computer idea:

- The Sun Ray
- thin clients in general, you see them at travel offices, airports, enterprises
- The Citrix Solution
- solutions that build upon VMware server or Microsoft Virtual PC server
- ...

and actually looking at today's enterprises this trend is growing. probably you had a different idea in mind when you wrote your comment above like "network computers never fully replaced desktop computers as some few people were tempted to predict"

?

-lr.

Actually, if you look at what the computer industry has been doing, you will notice alternating periods regarding the popularity of centralized and decentralized processing.

JoeCanuck · Post by **JoeCanuck** » 01 Mar 2006, 14:00

CX wrote:2010? I dont' think so, there are lots of problems with such aircraft, one major one is there is no stability and like the B2 bomber, a lot of expensive electronics and software needs to be put in to stabilise it, so 2010? you got to be dreaming!

Actually, there are few problems with stability with the flying wing shape....it all has to do with the placement of the vertical stabilizers. If they're on the tips of the swept wings, (as in the plan), they are far enough behind the center of gravity to stabilize the plane.

The B2 is unstable because it doesn't have vertical stabilizers, (to help in reducing the radar signature). It used drag inducing control surfaces, (I believe split ailerons), to achieve lateral stability. Swept wings also help with this.

I've flown a bunch of R/C flying wings. They can be just as stable as conventional planes.....granted at 1/10,000th the size. Still, the aerodynamic principles are the same....whatever the size.

lastrow · Post by **lastrow** » 01 Mar 2006, 18:29

for me, the relaxed stability issue would be a no go for BWB planes at the moment. I would not like to step into a machine that will loose its aerodynamic stability when the electronics shuts down by accident. The limited windows are another issue, however there are a couple of military transports that provide to you this feeling already. maybe these planes would be good for carrying cargo or military stuff at the first stage.

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 01 Mar 2006, 18:53

lastrow wrote: I would not like to step into a machine that will loose its aerodynamic stability when the electronics shuts down by accident.

As long as the electronics is redundent enough and proved to be safe the plane wil be as safe as other planes.

Chris

liebensd · Post by **liebensd** » 01 Mar 2006, 19:10

As long as the electronics is redundent enough and proved to be safe the plane wil be as safe as other planes.

And the pressure shield inside the aircraft. As you all know you need to add a positive pressure inside the cabin when you are flying high altitude. The past decades all aircrafts were constructed like a tube and on both sides they placed bulk heads. So like a bottle. But when they are going to work with an totaly different shape, there can be a lot of problems with this issue. The A380 might also look different but its main fuselage contractions is the same as this of an aircraft 30 Years ago. The future will tell if they are capable of making sutch an aircraft.

Greetz,

Dave

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Boeings new proposed Blended Wing Body

Boeings new proposed Blended Wing Body

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