Did secret CIA flight land in Antwerp (Belgium)?

killerwhale65 · Post by **killerwhale65** » 18 Feb 2006, 18:31

On July 20, 2002, a Gulfstream III private jet has made a stopover at Antwerp airport. The same aircraft carried a suspect of terror to Syria 2 months later. Minister Landuyt now wants to investigate weather it made a stopover at Antwerp as well during that flight.

Source: NRC Handelsblad

Post by **speedbird1** » 18 Feb 2006, 19:45

@ killerwhale65.
You are doing so many news posts. Maybe moderators can enlighten me on this, but shouldn't they just go into the news section, rather than forums? 4 today that I count.

Emirates

C_J · Post by **C_J** » 18 Feb 2006, 20:02

I don't think there is a problem when killerwhale65 is keeping us up to date. After all, this is a 'latest aviation news' forum.

@Emirates: I see your point: one should know what to send to the news section and what should be in this forum. Any rules?

killerwhale65 · Post by **killerwhale65** » 18 Feb 2006, 20:06

i dont think that there are rules for this.
But as i already PM'd to Emirates, the main reason i choose for the forums is that people can react on it, or (even better) post additional information (like pictures) when they have any. I think thats one of the powerfull things of having a forum to post news.

earthman · Post by **earthman** » 19 Feb 2006, 03:01

Yes the thing that is really missing is the possibility to open a thread about a news item, which would then be directly linked to from that news item. And not 'discuss this in the forums' which will just send you into the forum not saying if there is a thread, and if so, which one.

burner737 · Post by **burner737** » 19 Feb 2006, 18:57

killerwhale65 wrote:On July 20, 2002, a Gulfstream III private jet has made a stopover at Antwerp airport. The same aircraft carried a suspect of terror to Syria 2 months later. Minister Landuyt now wants to investigate weather it made a stopover at Antwerp as well during that flight.

Source: NRC Handelsblad

I think we should stop about this ... OK maybe there was a CIA flight but it's none of our damn business, The people who realy know something about ANR know the answer but I hope they won't tell a thing about it ...

Regards Tim

regi · Post by **regi** » 20 Feb 2006, 09:14

Dear Tim,
I do certainly want to know about it what kind of airplanes land at Antwerp. Why should it not be reported? Fascism starts when we turn our heads and say we didn't know about it.

an-148 · Post by **an-148** » 20 Feb 2006, 10:08

@ Tim
SURELY not stop about this!!!!!!!!!!
I totally share the opinion of Regi in that matter!

elnombre · Post by **elnombre** » 20 Feb 2006, 11:33

i think we should shut up about it simply because I don't want a bunch of do gooders interfering in my hobby. It is when these zealots get involved that opaque fences go up and police move us on.
Whether I agree or disagree with Extraordinary Rendition is beside the point. I love my hobby and wish to continue with the minimum of hassle which means shutting up and being discrete. There are plenty of fora where the pros and cons of US policy can be discussed but please not here.
They really are watching us
El

regi · Post by **regi** » 20 Feb 2006, 12:13

Now I get the point: the world is not allowed to be informed about some flights because some spotters are afraid they would be sent away from good spotter locations.
I get it , that makes sence.

Post by **Bottie** » 20 Feb 2006, 13:05

I think I just discovered a new explanation of "being selfish" ...

LX-LGX · Post by **LX-LGX** » 20 Feb 2006, 13:21

regi wrote:Dear Tim,
I do certainly want to know about it what kind of airplanes land at Antwerp. Why should it not be reported? Fascism starts when we turn our heads and say we didn't know about it.

Regi, what are we going to do with state carriers from non democratic (even fascist) states like Air Zimbabwe, Air China and Iran Air?

And what about the old Tupolev's, built by exploited USSR-workers?

an-148 · Post by **an-148** » 20 Feb 2006, 13:31

If they carry NOWADAYS illegally detained prisonners when landing somewhere in B, we should do the same!
It seems not to be the case for now.
Therefore the discussion is concentrated on those flights.
Remark: this discussion is not limited to Belgium, but should and is debatted in many other EU countries!

LX-LGX · Post by **LX-LGX** » 20 Feb 2006, 13:57

11th September 2001 is one of the worst days of my life ever.

I can understand that a country that has lost 3.000 innocent citizens that day has a different opinion about "war against terrorism" then I have.

(if I would have to choose between Bush and Clinton, I would vote for none of them)

jelger · Post by **jelger** » 20 Feb 2006, 14:02

elnombre wrote:i think we should shut up about it simply because I don't want a bunch of do gooders interfering in my hobby. It is when these zealots get involved that opaque fences go up and police move us on.
Whether I agree or disagree with Extraordinary Rendition is beside the point. I love my hobby and wish to continue with the minimum of hassle which means shutting up and being discrete. There are plenty of fora where the pros and cons of US policy can be discussed but please not here.
They really are watching us
El

excuse my language, but what a :censored: . are you affraid or what?
i have been in fora about music artists.. and we had pretty tough discussions about society/politics and usa's position in the world bladibladibla.. have never noticed or heard of any attempts over the years that us government (un)officials tried to close the board... i'd say - get yourself informed.. and go to a good bookstore (chain) in usa nd you will find a LOT of stuff that would be a candidfate for confiscation in your line of reasoning.

at least they know what freedom of speech and publication means... no matter what you think else of 'them'.

i wont take a political position here... but fligts are flights, and can and will be spotted, secret or not.. besides it is OUR airspace... and use of OUT taxmoney paid facilities.

MY tax money is spent on such flights... so there you go. i'd liek to have CERTAIN explanations and/or motivations to be opened up. and if planes are spotted they get spotted.. so what ?

jal · Post by **jal** » 20 Feb 2006, 15:14

The CIA secret flights issue is purely hypocritical as several European countries as Germany, France, Spain, etc... have done exactly the same thing but through intermediate people/organisations and though claim innocense. In fact they are even guiltier.

jelger · Post by **jelger** » 20 Feb 2006, 15:32

it depends which part of the 'story' you criticise on.

european authorities, as far as i know, (please enlighten me) do not transport "detainees", "enemy combatants" etc. to "facilities" like Guantanamo Bay or else, where these people are kept with the intention to keep them from any legal system and/or regulation whatsoever.

the main critique would be a lack of information to authorities of the airspace and grounds what transport is taken place, as with granting the use of facilities, a country is (without knowledge and without opportunity to refrain from), made an accomplish.. totaly unasked for and totally unwanted in some cases. (irregardless whether that authority makes itself guilty in other cases to similar practices).

stating it is in our own interest without feeling the need of informing 'us' is pure arrogance. who are other people to decide what is 'good' for us? (and i mean the informing the government and/or authorities and not per se the people)

elnombre · Post by **elnombre** » 20 Feb 2006, 16:26

You all completly missed my point. I have very strong opinions on these flights as obviously do most people here. I think however the more we discuss them on these fora the more likely we are to draw attention to our hobby. This is not a good idea, not because we are doing anything wrong but because the authorities will merely strive further to keep us out.
All I am saying and read this very carefully is there are better places to discuss this which will not endanger our hobby.
As for Jelger as I said you misunderstood me, its not about closing boards, free speech or being scared its about being practical.
El
As for being selfish.When it comes to my hobby... Damn straight

jelger · Post by **jelger** » 20 Feb 2006, 16:36

8) ok

burner737 · Post by **burner737** » 20 Feb 2006, 16:57

elnombre wrote:You all completly missed my point. I have very strong opinions on these flights as obviously do most people here. I think however the more we discuss them on these fora the more likely we are to draw attention to our hobby. This is not a good idea, not because we are doing anything wrong but because the authorities will merely strive further to keep us out.
All I am saying and read this very carefully is there are better places to discuss this which will not endanger our hobby.
As for Jelger as I said you misunderstood me, its not about closing boards, free speech or being scared its about being practical.
El
As for being selfish.When it comes to my hobby... Damn straight

And that's the best reply I've heard and this counts for me as well !!!

regards Tim

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Did secret CIA flight land in Antwerp (Belgium)?

Did secret CIA flight land in Antwerp (Belgium)?

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