Spotting on soundwall of EBBR will be over & out

Post by **Bottie** » 22 Jan 2006, 16:58

SN_Bigbirdy wrote:
Bottie wrote:Some say you are even closer at the refugee center, who says this place will remain? maybe they will place also a extra fence over there ... Be happy, it is still allowed at BRU, take a look to the recent changes at Paris, that's a lot worse
Oh god, plz don't give them further ideas 8O 8O

Simon

Give them ideas? I think they are old and wise enough to decide ...

Post by **Bottie** » 22 Jan 2006, 17:20

Tommypilot wrote:Shooting on one particular spotter who did make pictures about a special airplane on the 8th floor is not fair. There were many other people (also with pictures on a.net and other sites) who where standing there...are you going to blame them too...if I am right there are some members here as well of those people...
However I would never post a picture of that kinda airplane online but keep it just for myself. But yes Frederic, some people take pictures for the number of views...and some only to share some special photographs with other people.

You should know about the fact that it was asked not to upload pictures of Air Force One that were taken from the 8th floor. Everyone has removed his picture(s), but the photographer SN690 names, maybe thought everyone forgot about that request and uploaded it in June ... You should know about this because you are on the same mailinglist ...

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 22 Jan 2006, 17:55

fokker_f27 wrote:" Oh, no, people are having fun, we can't have that!"

Biac quote.

They can just build a small dirt or gravel parking lot someplace there, thats not
expensive.

I just sent a question, they'll reply to me soon, they said.

How could you sent such a narrow minded and childish mail to BIAC. Do you really think that it will solve the problem ? NO it will only make things worse. And I really hope you didn't talk in "name" of the spotters around BRU. It's with such an attitude that we will ruin our last spotting places we have.

As I already said in my earlier posts, we need to show biac that we are responsible and can behave around the airport. When they see that, they might tolerate us again or even open more places for us. But it's not going to happen the other way around. !!!! I remind you that they are not obliged to let us spot. We can be happy that they still tolerate us.

May I kindly ask you not to send such posts anymore to Biac, since it will negatively affect the liberty of all the spotters around BRU.

hooting on one particular spotter who did make pictures about a special airplane on the 8th floor is not fair. There were many other people (also with pictures on a.net and other sites) who where standing there...are you going to blame them too...

Don't forget that some who made the shots as well were in fact authorized personel .... But that's another debate. Let's stick to the sound wall.

Chris

EDIT's: Typo's

Tommypilot · Post by **Tommypilot** » 22 Jan 2006, 18:38

There we go again...

I just said that shooting on one person doesn't make sense...

Even people with a badge (read authorized) may not go up there following the rules...they may only use their badge for purposes related with work (read during the work hours).

Never received anything in my mailinglist about that...and thats the first thing I hear about it. The photographer is as free to do with his picture what he wants...that doens not mean the results can neck other people...

Let us indeed stick to the topic...

B737229 · Post by **B737229** » 22 Jan 2006, 19:47

Tommypilot wrote:The photographer is as free to do with his picture what he wants...that doens not mean the results can neck other people...

So what to think about this one?
can be found here http://coppermine.luchtzak.be/index.php?cat=10164

fokker_f27 · Post by **fokker_f27** » 22 Jan 2006, 20:49

@ all those people that quoted me: please read the following.

Oh, come on, I was just joking.

Do you really think I would send that joke to Biac? :shakehead: I just asked them why they closed the sound wall. I need a reason. I also said that they have a beautiful airport

So I feel bad that they closed the soundwall, is all.

If you want to delete that post, its ok to me.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Ok, I just found a strategy.

1) Find out why it is closed (I already asked that)
2) Think of a solution.
3) Make an agreement with BIAC.

The reason that they closed it is probably because people misparked there. A solution would be to leave the place open, but put poles there so people would park someplace else.

SN_fan · Post by **SN_fan** » 22 Jan 2006, 21:00

Avro wrote: Don't forget that some who made the shots as well were in fact authorized personel

It's not because you have access to the staff only areas that you can take pictures. Biac has to give authorization. If seen someone with a licence to take pictures.Otherwise all the staff could take pictures of sometimes sensitive areas.

Post by **Bruspotter** » 22 Jan 2006, 21:29

Hello

For so far I haven't given my comment about it but I also want to express my disappointment.

First of all I DO HAVE TO AGREE with Bottie. It doesn't surprises me that they close it , after the fence next to the road (to stop slowing traffic for watching the planes) wich I can understand (what doesn't means that I DO find it a pity). I actually already knew for sure that the wall was doomed to be closed about a year ago , that's also why I have profitted it maximum ,and I've nothing than good memories about it , and I hadn't to complain about it , so I do find it terribly sad. The fact that they where making a drain next to the wall already betrayed that there once was to be build a fence around , I've never seen a drain like that without a fence next to it...once again I'm right with my feelings , too bad.

Therefor I enjoyed the tower visit maximum. I saw it as a kind of last tribute to the Soundwall. A lonely spotter was spotting there facing the weather elements , enjoying , probably his last , visit to the wall. An image that will stay in my mind forever.

We might not be able to save the wall anymore but we do can save others.
By the way , closing 25L makes no sense , because they CAN't , it's a public place , it's next to the road , out of airport perimitors , they can't say anything about that. The only places they can steal us are the Sandhill (wich will become VERY popular to my guess now that the soundwall is closed) and the grasshill on the end of 25R at the Brucargo. But actually that places are also OUT of airport perimitor so...

And who know , maybe EVER if they will get the point they might re-open the wall...(in a VERY FAR future

, wich I guess they wont anyway.)

Maybe we SHOULD do a serious suggestion to BIAC , about a OFFICIAL spotting place. The only place where it can be done successfully is the Sandhill. The place is free...it lays higher , is pretty big , it can be enlarged with some more sand. It's safely out of the airport's perimitor and gives a nice view. They can earn with it. They can place a 'Frietkot' there (somewhere you can eat fries or hamburgers /hotdogs etc...) and a stand where you can drink...and they could even ask some parking money (only a little money). Imagine some thousands of cars a year park there for maybe 1-3EUR for a day/half day...? They could earn something and if it's really successful it can make things extra sure , they can improve in anti-terror control and safety with that money etc...

Imagine what kind a perspectives and new opportunities it could open , and it would be well-known around the world , like AMS is still now.

I see a very positive market for that. And if it gets to small they might place one around the railway for if it's RWY02 and 07R for Arrival/Departure.

I think we should do some serious suggestions. (Lets hope some BIAC staff read our messages...). And it IS time to let the world know that spotting is a very solider and quiet and peaceful hobby , and that it CAN even improve safety. Don't forget , spotters can be great ambassadors for the airport. If a wellknown spotter from a far country is followed by more
compatriots , wich all have positive advises about BRU toworths passengers etc...it has a positive influence.

I've always assumed the point of view that I will always want to make the LOG's and info I have from certain days , available for any kind of aim concerning aviation in and around BRU without permission if it might be from importance or needed. So in that matter it DOES is useful. (it probably will NEVER be needed , but just in a way of speaking...we would all do that...don't we..?)So if it comes to the point we can all do something. Spotters are a good potential group to make statistics and independent appraisals about an airport (IF they are with a group large enough who makes it possible).

So let us all know that we are not only vermin but that we might ever be needed and that we have only a POSITIVE influence on the airport.

(only mentioning the noise-crises at BRU...WHO'S ON THE SIDE OF BIAC?? NOT THE 'NOORDRAND' I GUESS...

And remember this: Weedses do not fare.

In Dutch: Onkruid vergaat niet

Best regards: Yannick

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 22 Jan 2006, 22:18

SN_fan wrote:
Avro wrote: Don't forget that some who made the shots as well were in fact authorized personel

It's not because you have access to the staff only areas that you can take pictures. Biac has to give authorization. If seen someone with a licence to take pictures.Otherwise all the staff could take pictures of sometimes sensitive areas.

Ok my mistake there. Anyway I just wanted to point out that some people who went to that floor might have had the permission to go up there. Thus not illigal. But as I said let's stay on the soundwall debate since it's two different kinds of discussions.

Now at Bruspotter,

Imagine what kind a perspectives and new opportunities it could open , and it would be well-known around the world , like AMS is still now.

For that to happen you not only need good spotting facilities but some good traffic as well !! Even with the best facilities it won't attract "thousands" of spotters around the world to see some avro's every 5 minutes landing.

Chris

Robin_Bamps · Post by **Robin_Bamps** » 22 Jan 2006, 22:23

fokker_f27 wrote:1) Find out why it is closed (I already asked that)

Well, I think that answer is clear : the wall is official airport territory and thereby BIAC property... The new ring road leads over airport territory, so they need to close down both sides of the road. People that used the wall frequently in the past 1.5 years are lucky in my eyes that the construction of the road etc. took some time, and had to be finished before the fence could be placed.

Regards, Robin Bamps.

Rago · Post by **Rago** » 22 Jan 2006, 23:20

When I started reading this topic, it took only a couple reactions to get confirmation what I was thinking since some time! I even started a topic about it.

Even before I continue to read the rest, I post already a first reaction.

The problems about the wall were already largely discussed about in an earlier topic, so everybody knew this was going to happen.

Finally it happened!!! Hurray hurray!!! It happened ages to late!

And it's a pity all those left-wing *censored* got away all that time without any problem.

For your information : that wall isn't your property, so stay away, because you wouldn't like it very much if I'm trespassing on your property!

If you allow spotters on a scene there are always the ones who leave their trash, and who want to go still further. Simply the ones who don't respect anything. It's simply because of those *censored* that ALL spotters have got a bad name.
So where was the next "hot spot"? On the taxiway? And if that spot was closed, would you consider it also as an attack on your so-called "rights"?

As I said already in another topic : GROW UP GUYS!!! With this kind of reactions your making fools out of yourselves!!!

Now I'll read the rest of the reactions, because I still want to have a good laugh!

Stoney · Post by **Stoney** » 23 Jan 2006, 09:51

Rago wrote: And it's a pity all those left-wing *censored* got away all that time without any problem.

For your information : that wall isn't your property, so stay away, because you wouldn't like it very much if I'm trespassing on your property!

Dear Rago,

what does this topic has to do with left wing or right wing? Everybody knows already you are a right wing *** so there's no reason to tell this in 80% of your posts...

Keep politics off the forum please, this is an aviation forum.

In my opinion your reaction is pretty childish too, and you dare to accuse others of being childish... They have an excuse, they are kids, you are an adult, so act like one...

Reading your posts is not good pr for our friends in blue, matey...

Jense · Post by **Jense** » 23 Jan 2006, 11:54

This topic is getting better and better, day by day, hour by hour, minute by minute! Keep on going guys, you made my day (again)!

SN_Bigbirdy · Post by **SN_Bigbirdy** » 23 Jan 2006, 12:46

Bruspotter wrote:Therefor I enjoyed the tower visit maximum. I saw it as a kind of last tribute to the Soundwall. A lonely spotter was spotting there facing the weather elements , enjoying , probably his last , visit to the wall. An image that will stay in my mind forever.

If it was Friday (21/01) afternoon around 14.30(LT) it was I

Facing the weatherelements AND my anger

I will never forget that place, I took my best pics there so I let it rest in peace...Perhaps we all have to do that, because I believe, every step we take, will have a very very baleful influence about the way we, sincere spotters, are handled by a institution...

Simon

Rago · Post by **Rago** » 23 Jan 2006, 20:47

You guys are looking for a reason why the fence finally came? For once Robin isn't talking "kak" (please don't take this wrong Robin

)when he's saying that it is private property!

Yes "PRIVATE PROPERTY"! as stated already in the past

And here we arrive at the so-called "political part" of my earlier reaction

Stoney wrote: what does this topic has to do with left wing or right wing? Everybody knows already you are a right wing *** so there's no reason to tell this in 80% of your posts...

The left wing **** are well known for their "respect" for rules and other persons.
The only things they respect, "in the name of democracy" is what they like!!! (that's anarchy) because they have the right to do this and to do that... But the main point is they easily "forget" they have obligations
For your information Stoney : I don't give a shit about politics, I respect the people who respect the others, that's all! But it's easy to call the police force "a right wing ****" because that's just what the left wing **** are calling them... Maybe you don't have enough inspiration to find some kind names yourself?

Stoney wrote: In my opinion your reaction is pretty childish too, and you dare to accuse others of being childish... They have an excuse, they are kids, you are an adult, so act like one...

That's it! Right to the point Stoney!! Let the children behave like children! The problem on this forum is just that those kids want to behave like adults, and they don't know what they are talking about! They think they know, and therefore declare themselves as "experts", "hot sources", ...
The task of an adult is to try to show those kids "the light", except if you're part of the left wing ****, because they stimulate their kids to "oppose" and to get what THEY want!
To put it in relation with this topic : EVERYBODY knows that zone is PRIVATE property, and all thos "adults" are crying "why the hell are they closing it? We have to act to get OUR spot back!"
Please grow up guys!!!

Stoney wrote: Reading your posts is not good pr for our friends in blue, matey...

I will lower myself to make the same "adult" remark as you did above : what has the PR for the friends in blue to do in this aviation forum?

Final thought:
after reading most of this "kak-praat" as South-Africans can say so beautifully, I'm wondering: "how is it possible one can react in such a stupid way? Are people born like that or did some of them follow lessons to become that stupid?"

No hard feelings "mateys"!

Post by **Bruspotter** » 23 Jan 2006, 21:42

I'm getting the feeling that there are going to come serious 'ambras' between certain members maybe?

Not what concerns me , it IS after all just a discussion. And I find myself back on BOTH sides..both are right...idd...it IS PRIVATE PROPERTY...but I CAN understand what most spotters feel now , I feel it too. But we have nothing to say about it...

SN_Bigbirdy

Yeah , don't know what time it was exactly but we entered the tower something before or pas 1600LT , so maybe you still stood there? Guess there weren't many more spotters on the 'half closed' spot in the afternoon with the same clothes.

You MUST HAVE been talking bad language when you saw the SQ Cargo B747-400F Turning on the 'Bravo' instead of the 'Whisky'

Well , I just can tell you something: we , or at least STIJN , did his best to get the beast there , so we could see it for the last time at Whisky four...

How come he didn't?

First he requested FULL RUNWAY LENGTH USE for take-off during start-up contact.

A minute later the ATC controller told him to go 'W4'.
When the SQ pilot suddenly asked surprised why??? The controller repeated that he requested for that.
The SQ pilot refused (kind a short off on the ATC controller).

So we DID tried , and I at least was already feeling bad in your place , would have really wanted to see that for a last time...

...

But anyway , I can't complain (too bad you left a little too early) , he sended the empty ferry B767 from Loftleidir icelandic over 'W4' , the pilot didn't hesitated , neither asked questions why his empty ferry flight had to go via 'W4' when he rotated early....(2500ft alt and more at the end of the runway

)

Best regards: Yannick

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 23 Jan 2006, 23:26

OK this topic is getting no where. Everybody had the opportunity to express his/her feelings.

But it seems it's turning into a personal "war" now for some mebers and others like to go really off topic....

I'll close this topic now.

If some one really wants to add something valuable into this topic I'll re-open it.

A shame we cannot discuss such a matter in a peaceful way...

Chris

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 27 Jan 2006, 19:16

And here is the official answer of biac.

Today in the newspaper, Het Nieuwsblad: "Fence against spotters."

The service "Wegen Vlaams Brabant" is building a fence around the soundwall and this because BIAC asked them to do that, BIAC is also paying the cost for that.

According to BIAC the spotters are a thread at the soundwall and that's why they are not longer welcome to that place.
But in the plan to build a road behind the soundwall on property of BIAC, the fence was foreseen to build over the whole lenght of it.

Forecast of the end of the construction: mid next month.

Case closed as everybody knows the official answer.

BTW thanks to member Atlantis for providing the news.

Chris

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 04 Mar 2006, 16:59

Some more info on this topic:

Some time ago four accidents happened on the soundwall. All accidents were related to the fact that people stood on the soundwall. One person died when he fell from the soundwall, and the three others were heavily injured. Those four accidents happened in a short period of time.

Some children were also noted riding bikes around the soundwall.

I hope it's clear for everybody now, why Biac has rightly closed this spot.

Chris

Post by **sn26567** » 05 Mar 2006, 11:07

Avro wrote:I hope it's clear for everybody now, why Biac has rightly closed this spot.

And that's also why Avro archived this topic!