SNBA transported less pax in 2005

bkonner · Post by **bkonner** » 17 Jan 2006, 03:08

Howdy,

I am curious about something. SNBA does a great deal of code share flights. If for example SNBA sells a seat on AA's BRU ORD flight, does that passenger get included in SNBA's total passenger count?

Thanks,

bkonner

sn-remember · Post by **sn-remember** » 17 Jan 2006, 13:37

Atlantis wrote:The big problem is, and now I speak not only for SNBA, the Belgians are no leaders in taking action. There was this weekend an article in the newspaper about this subject. The Belgians don't start up projects because they are afraid that it doesn't work. The Belgians are happy in what they have. They are happy when they can play in their own garden and not in their neighbours garden. That's the same for our Belgian carriers. They fly only in Europe and some flights to Tel Aviv and Africa but that's it. That's their garden.

That's a fact and I'm afraid that we have to deal with.

Well there are still great managers in Belgium : Albert Frere is one of them..and Solvay is not doing bad as pure belgian company.
But they are too few so I have to agree with you Atlantis !
That's why like you, I don't believe in the belgian mgt of sn...
The replacement of M. Kuipers was certainly not enough and I doubt that a 1 year nomination can bring lots of change
It's a long time that I believe that the whole board should simply let the place to more agressive business oriented international profiles not being afraid to take risks..and having something to prove.
Because business is a matter of taking calculated risks.
Tolipanebas, if I follow your reasoning SN should keep minimalising its offer in order to maximalise the profits...But I am afraid the business laws in air transport are not that simple.
On the contrary I should say you need enough volume to fight your market share effectively and eventually ensure profits , not expanding means dying , see what's they 're doing in Africa

Ok I know talking is one thing, doing is another thing But seeing the flag carrier declining to such low levels is painful.

correctair · Post by **correctair** » 17 Jan 2006, 16:39

sn-remember,

Have you seen what they are doing in Africa? Have you ever seen figures? On which facts your conlusion is built or is this just another round of SN bashing ?

Happy to discuss. But please discussions based on facts & figures

Rayman · Post by **Rayman** » 17 Jan 2006, 18:27

correctair wrote:sn-remember,
Have you seen what they are doing in Africa? Have you ever seen figures? On which facts your conlusion is built or is this just another round of SN bashing ?
Happy to discuss. But please discussions based on facts & figures

Indeed, refrain from statements and contribute.
https://www.aviation24.be/postp128991.html ... ht=#128991
https://www.aviation24.be/postp129091.html ... ht=#129091
and take also into account the 1 day less in 2005

PLEASE

BTW, Feb 05 (28 vs 29 days):
Pax +1.88%
ASK -4.44%
RPK +3.42%
LF +4.6 pts

sn-remember · Post by **sn-remember** » 17 Jan 2006, 18:36

correctair wrote:sn-remember,

Have you seen what they are doing in Africa? Have you ever seen figures? On which facts your conlusion is built or is this just another round of SN bashing ?

Happy to discuss. But please discussions based on facts & figures

No offense correctair !
We are talking about volumes and I believe that 3 A330 a/c is not enough to save the african position...
This is not new in fact it was obvious to many observers from the start of operations back in 2001 ..
I am very critical on this because sabena as everyone knows used to develop around the african market a decisive network since its foundation.
To abandon most of sn's core african market at the time sabena went bankrupt to the benefit of nearby competitors was at that time unbelievable to me. It still is.
In my humble view, (sorry to repeat myself) sn 's top priority to survive is to try restoring a credible network in Africa, maybe using smaller and less expansive a/c but with higher frequencies (ET has used the B757 with the success we know)...
Meanwhile there is also a huge work to be done in order to sell the image of a winning and daring and fast developing competitive carrier in Europe , Africa and (later) America?

DannyVDB · Post by **DannyVDB** » 17 Jan 2006, 23:17

sn-remember wrote:
correctair wrote:sn-remember,

Have you seen what they are doing in Africa? Have you ever seen figures? On which facts your conlusion is built or is this just another round of SN bashing ?

Happy to discuss. But please discussions based on facts & figures
No offense correctair !
We are talking about volumes and I believe that 3 A330 a/c is not enough to save the african position...
This is not new in fact it was obvious to many observers from the start of operations back in 2001 ..
I am very critical on this because sabena as everyone knows used to develop around the african market a decisive network since its foundation.
To abandon most of sn's core african market at the time sabena went bankrupt to the benefit of nearby competitors was at that time unbelievable to me. It still is.
In my humble view, (sorry to repeat myself) sn 's top priority to survive is to try restoring a credible network in Africa, maybe using smaller and less expansive a/c but with higher frequencies (ET has used the B757 with the success we know)...
Meanwhile there is also a huge work to be done in order to sell the image of a winning and daring and fast developing competitive carrier in Europe , Africa and (later) America?

sn-remember,

- SNBA did not abandon sabena's network in Africa but restarted the core of it ... Sabena had 19 destinations, SNBA has 14. In Sabena's destinations included South Africa where they made huge losses (which does not mean that they SNBA could not restart it sooner or later)
- ET has not more success than SNBA, in general SNBA is seen as being very profitable and successful, in Africa and in Europe ... And by the way, there were almost the same number of flights to the destinations than in Sabena's time (for Nairobi whiwh often used it was 5 or 6, now it is 5, the same is true for Dakar, ...)
- We all make the image of SNBA ... First issues is there trust, support and use the airline as much as possible ... We don't need a bubble that burst whenever situation is becoming a little more difficult ...

Regards,
Danny

sn-remember · Post by **sn-remember** » 18 Jan 2006, 12:34

Danny must I really remind you

- Sabena used to operate around 7 (seven) daily rotations to Africa using w/b a/c, mainly airbus330/340 family.
My point is that 5 or 6 yrs later, snba does not make half of that (2 to 3 daily departures no more) which imho is hardly tenable futurewise.

- I don't want to argue about the success of ET ops ; I'll just say that there are buying 10 B787 now.
Would be happy if snba was in a position to do similarly ...
My point is that the choice of the B757 for medium to long haul ops in the african context of ET was probably a judicial choice...that could inspire snba ?

I will conclude by saying that I don't want to transform this discussion into a so-called "bashers" versus so-called "do-ers" confrontation, this would lead to nowhere.. I personnally take constructive criticism as a gift.

Regards
Christophe