Big problems at SN Brussels Airlines!

DannyVDB · Post by **DannyVDB** » 20 Dec 2005, 20:36

Hi all,

I read here 'heavy' words ...

I think overall the strategy they are following is correct: carefully, not to hasty, taking into account what is needed and what they can invest.

The fact that they will cross-check on their destinations and that either SNBA or TV/VEX are dropping some, is OK. Trying to avoid competition on each others routes.

In addition they 'try' new destinations, especially in summer season ... Don't forget that some of these were even not flown in SABENA's time, and it seems that some of them are successful: St-Petersburg, Bari, now Dubrovnik ... For VEX on the other hand they have Valencia, Catania, ... And they promote each others destinations to fill the planes better.

I indeed think it would be good that they invest in extending the African market and I am sure they will do but everything depend on the availability of affordable aircraft. You can have aircraft that is so expensive that you loose on the route even if it is potentially successful.

I think that not starting too many routes to Asia is not bad if they can afford codesharing with good partners. The problem is not codesharing but whether they have good partners or not. What is important is that SNBA/TV-VEX can offer from BRU a good and large network ...

If you speak about Neil Burrough, then you speak about TV/VEX and since they are part of the SNBA holding, it is quite normal to see him there ...

About Corporate Village: everyhting is possible: extension from 5 to 7 floors including TV/VEX (the two upper floors are now empty). Or if they have good conditions for Sabena house and there is pression from other companies to go to Corporate Village, then why not. This can happen indeed, but doesn't say anything on the situation in SNBA ...

Let also wait and see the financial results for both.

By the way: I am afraid that others that are expanding now fast and smooth will not survive in the medium and long run.

Regards,
Danny

Airbus330lover · Post by **Airbus330lover** » 20 Dec 2005, 20:45

Today back from MRS.
A big problem for SNBA, the aircrafts are not used enough.
Other airlines don't let stay a airplane for more than 5 hours unemployed.
Everyday, a BAE flies to MRS, land on 11.30 and... comes back at 16.10
Crew unemployed, airplane unemployed, and the same occurs on other airports.

SN_fan · Post by **SN_fan** » 20 Dec 2005, 21:34

they could start a service Marseille to corsica.
And promote not only the rout BRU MRS Corsica but also MRS corsica,

Good idea or not???

beaucaire · Post by **beaucaire** » 20 Dec 2005, 21:58

Rather than flying to Marseille they should fly to Montpellier and continue to Ajaccio or Bastia with local traffic - would be a great line !
Since the disappearance of Air Littoral MPL has no flights to Corsica...

Airbus330lover · Post by **Airbus330lover** » 20 Dec 2005, 22:19

beaucaire wrote:Rather than flying to Marseille they should fly to Montpellier and continue to Ajaccio or Bastia with local traffic - would be a great line !
Since the disappearance of Air Littoral MPL has no flights to Corsica...

MRS or MPL or FMI it's not the problem,
A very good idea to use the airplane to corsica. Flight time MRS Ajaccio or Bastia + rotation time can fit in the 4h30 !!

DannyVDB · Post by **DannyVDB** » 20 Dec 2005, 22:33

Does anyone now about the final plans for some summer destinations?

I read once in a Connect magazine they will fly in summer season to Lourdes (or will this be charter?), Ajaccio was also mentioned.

Danny

TWA · Post by **TWA** » 21 Dec 2005, 02:53

One of my colleagues flew to MXP on AZ last week and he had a lot of fun with the annoucements which sounded like this:

" Welcome aboard this Alitalia flight code sharing with air broeksèèl",

and for the returnflight: ...AZ flight in cooperation with brussel-air !! "

At least you should brief your partners better about the name of your company, even if it sounds as unattractive as SN Brussels Airlines.

Meanwhile in Africa groundstaff still tend to use " la sabena", no wonder they never heard of SNBA outside Belgium.

I think they should start all over again with a new name. The S-tail is not going to appeal the African market forever. They are also finding their way to Swiss, Air France/KLM or British... just like many costconscious Belgians did.

I also never understood why SN isn(t flying to Africa's biggest city : CAI.
Nearly every European airline serves that city with big equipment with very high loadfactors. Same values for JNB.

LX-LGX · Post by **LX-LGX** » 21 Dec 2005, 09:16

Agree for the name: SN sounds better then SN Brussels Airlines.

a bit off topic here:

JNB: the yield for Kinshasa is about double as the one for Jo'burg, and running costs are less.

A330-300 is unable to fly BRU-JNB nonstop, and competition (KL, LH, SA, BA) even has a nonstop flight to/from CPT Cape Town.

Johan23 · Post by **Johan23** » 21 Dec 2005, 09:32

Anyone of you applied for CEO? Sounds like there are a lot of businessmen here.

Cheers,
Johan

fly · Post by **fly** » 21 Dec 2005, 13:10

Just read in a belgian french speaking newspaper that SN is looking in to a plan of flying their fleet intra africa, stationaning some 146 or avro's in africa and making a kind of hub their I guess.
Also saying they have to do something about loadfactors in europe because they are continouisly below other EU lf's.

Post by **airbuske** » 21 Dec 2005, 13:35

Or something like Birdy Airlines before ?

A company that offers long haul planes,with cabin crew of SNBA on board.
That company could operated the long haul flights to new destinations
like Asia , America , Middle East, ...
After a few years SNBA can take the planes over.
SNBA don't have to invest a lot of money and almost no risk for SNBA

airazurxtror · Post by **airazurxtror** » 21 Dec 2005, 15:12

According to the belgian newspaper "Le Soir" this morning :
- SNBA make good profits in Africa and plan to increase their flights there, including intra - African flights
-SNBA make losses on the european flights, with a load factor of only 65%, and intends to change its price policy in order to sell more seats.

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 21 Dec 2005, 16:52

Johan23 wrote:Anyone of you applied for CEO? Sounds like there are a lot of businessmen here.

Cheers,
Johan

That's fine on paper and when you run it on your own and have a lot of money. But on practice it isn't. The airline world is a very hard world. You have to work with a group of managers and shareholders. All of them have other ideas. You can have a lot of brilliant ideas but if there is no one who will follow you, forget it. The decisions are made, mostly, by the shareholders. The smaller topics are for you. That's the reality. Don't dream to much.

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 21 Dec 2005, 17:07

TWA wrote:One of my colleagues flew to MXP on AZ last week and he had a lot of fun with the annoucements which sounded like this:

" Welcome aboard this Alitalia flight code sharing with air broeksèèl",

and for the returnflight: ...AZ flight in cooperation with brussel-air !! "

At least you should brief your partners better about the name of your company, even if it sounds as unattractive as SN Brussels Airlines.

Just the opposite, it says more about AZ then SNBA. When the people of SNBA will present their airline to an other they speak about SN Brussels Airlines. You can see billboards with SN Brussels Airlines. The cabin crew of AZ fly every day to BRU and they saw every day airplanes of SNBA. So, the picture is very clear to me.

SN_fan · Post by **SN_fan** » 21 Dec 2005, 19:13

fly wrote:Just read in a belgian french speaking newspaper that SN is looking in to a plan of flying their fleet intra africa, stationaning some 146 or avro's in africa and making a kind of hub their I guess.
Also saying they have to do something about loadfactors in europe because they are continouisly below other EU lf's.

something like this

https://www.aviation24.be/posts13172-highlight.html

teddybAIR · Post by **teddybAIR** » 21 Dec 2005, 19:36

Just regarding the Venture Capital idea:

Venture capitalists are investors with a very high risk profile. They seek very risky investment opportunities that have extremely high potential returns (general rule in economis: the higher the risk you're prepared to take, the higher the potential return, it's like gambling!) Anyway, the point I want to make is that a venture capitalist is specifically investing in sectors with a high growth potential. These sectors are 'new sectors that have not grown to a maturity stage yet. Unfortunately, the aviation industry is a mature industry with a lot of players and consequently low returns. Thus, forget about venture capitalists. BTW, that is exactly why the continuation of SNBA depended on Bussiness Angels (very simply explained: people with too much money that invest in things they're interested in) and not on venture capitalists...

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 23 Dec 2005, 17:01

After the nomination of the new CEO Neil Burrows the first plans are on table.

2005 was a year to make profit: that's clear, the company is flying is black figures.

2006 will be a year to fill to planes with a lot of pax. SNBA will fight against Ryanair with very agressive prices.
SNBA had an average of 55% load factor. It means that they had a lot of capacity that never was used.

BRU-CPH · Post by **BRU-CPH** » 23 Dec 2005, 19:06

SN_fan wrote:
fly wrote:Just read in a belgian french speaking newspaper that SN is looking in to a plan of flying their fleet intra africa, stationaning some 146 or avro's in africa and making a kind of hub their I guess.
Also saying they have to do something about loadfactors in europe because they are continouisly below other EU lf's.
something like this

https://www.aviation24.be/posts13172-highlight.html

It would probably work better if SNBA tries to get engaged in an existing company, just as KLM did with Kenia Airways. SNBA is currently co-operating with Air Senegal on (V7) the BRU-DKR route, so probably, V7 can be a strategic partner in Western Africa.