Qantas goes Boeing

simosed · Post by **simosed** » 14 Dec 2005, 04:09

Qantas ordered the B787, 115 in total.

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20051214/p ... k8t55s.pdf

simosed · Post by **simosed** » 14 Dec 2005, 04:24

And no 772-LR or A345.

Qantas announcement re: Hub Busters
http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20051214/p ... b15d75.pdf

earthman · Post by **earthman** » 14 Dec 2005, 05:43

If I were to spend a ridiculous amount of time getting to Australia, I'd rather have a stop somewhere halfway. I doubt these kind of routes are really pleasant at subsonic speeds.

CX · Post by CX » 14 Dec 2005, 06:14

Well some people like it, some don't... if you want to get to a place quickly, you wouldn't want to stop.. but for me, i surely do not want to sit in those seats for some 22 hours stuck!

I am more surprised why Qantas did not order ANY A350s at all.. Is it another wake up call for Airbus that the A350 is not good enough? Or is it because the 787 is a more similar plane to their existing 767s? Either way, not a single A350 was ordered, which no matter what, is a hint that the A350 needs more performance.

earthman · Post by **earthman** » 14 Dec 2005, 07:52

I hope all those people working on reducing sonic booms will soon come with usable results, so such long trips will be a thing of the past. It would be nice to have a plane that can reach any place on the globe within at most 10 hours or so.

So, uh, that was off topic anyway. Why would it make sense for Quantas to order both the 787 and the A350? They are more or less competitors, why waste money on having to train everybody for two aircraft types?

dna · Post by **dna** » 14 Dec 2005, 11:26

If I were to spend a ridiculous amount of time getting to Australia, I'd rather have a stop somewhere halfway. I doubt these kind of routes are really pleasant at subsonic speeds.

For the time being Qantas has abandoned plans for non-stop flights from Australia to London and New York. They were looking into ultra-long range versions of the B777 and A340, but decided neither aircraft would allow cost-effective flights on those routes.

MrAirbus · Post by **MrAirbus** » 14 Dec 2005, 12:24

Shame on AIRBUS !!!! They really done an awful work on selling the A350 !!!!

hakan · Post by **hakan** » 14 Dec 2005, 12:33

Qantas Chief, Mr. Geoff Dixon told in our news tonight here in Australia why Qantas decided to buy B787s.The reasons were that these class aircraft are better priced, have better fuel economy and better technology than Airbus.
What do you guys think of this statement?

Knight255 · Post by **Knight255** » 14 Dec 2005, 13:37

Concerning the price, does anyone think that the weak U.S. dollar has anything to do with it?? It's good to see Boeing attracting some customers that had of lately been ordering mid-sized Airbus planes. Concerning the long flight hours, just upgrade to business or first class!! They pamper you, you get free booze (on most airlines) and you can sleep in more comfy seats + watch movies!!

That sounds like a vacation by itself compared to my normal everyday life!!

chornedsnorkack · Post by **chornedsnorkack** » 14 Dec 2005, 14:05

Knight255 wrote:Concerning the price, does anyone think that the weak U.S. dollar has anything to do with it?? It's good to see Boeing attracting some customers that had of lately been ordering mid-sized Airbus planes. Concerning the long flight hours, just upgrade to business or first class!! They pamper you, you get free booze (on most airlines) and you can sleep in more comfy seats + watch movies!! That sounds like a vacation by itself compared to my normal everyday life!!

Business might be feasible, but First, on Qantas... maybe.

With the current Qantas seatmaps, their existing 330-s (which now serve the planned Asian 787-8 routes) have 6 abreast Business. And no First. First is found in the nosecone of some B747-s - 4 single Skybeds per side and 3 central pairs. But other B747-s fly around without First Class - the nosecone is occupied by paired Business seats.

Given that B787 is only slightly wider than A330 (10 cm extra outside width, + thinner walls + more height above), one would expect 8-abreast economy and 6-abreast Business on Qantas B787-8. But would Qantas have a First Class on B787?

Knight255 · Post by **Knight255** » 14 Dec 2005, 14:12

Well, perhaps not on the 787, however if they did ever opt for the 772-LR then they would definately need some first class seats. The extra money for the seat would be well worth it on such long flights.

Post by **luchtzak** » 14 Dec 2005, 14:52

Here is the Boeing press-release: https://www.aviation24.be/article10735.html

Knight255 · Post by **Knight255** » 14 Dec 2005, 15:31

Of all of the airlines that have ordered the 787 thus far, I must say that those colors in the picture are the best. 8)

CX · Post by CX » 14 Dec 2005, 17:07

I thought they might order some A350s to serve some slightly higher capacity routes.. Afterall they have all the equipment for the A330, so the A350 would be a cheaper transition...

Perhaps weak US dollar has something to do with it? I dont' know but so far, all the big orders are for the 787, A350 orders are like at maximum 20 planes each airline.. I must say this is perhaps a lack of trust in Airbus after the A380 delay, and obviously the A350 is not good enough, and it is too late for them to do stuff like a new fuselage now because the thing cannot be in service by 2010, and FURTHER goodwill will be wiped.. but i mean they must do something radical to that plane, to make it perform much better and LOOK better as well... the public is much more interested in the 787's flexed wing at the moment...

bits44 · Post by **bits44** » 14 Dec 2005, 17:36

the public is much more interested in the 787's flexed wing at the moment...

I have a good friend who is an Aeronautical Engineer an he made the comment when he first saw the 787 wing: " It reminds me of an Eagle in flight". I think many share the same view, very graceful.

Ovostar · Post by **Ovostar** » 14 Dec 2005, 19:53

115 in total !!! wow, this is a huge deal !
but Qantas, also ordred 380s, so not shame o airbus...

chornedsnorkack · Post by **chornedsnorkack** » 15 Dec 2005, 11:09

Something omitted so far from discussion:

It was not Qantas who ordered the "Dream"liners. It was Jetstar.

And Jetstar IIRC is a paper airline with no fleet as of now, no interiors and no service clases.

Does anyone have a clue about when Jetstar would start service, with which planes, with which interiors and service classes?

lastrow · Post by **lastrow** » 15 Dec 2005, 11:22

regarding the dollar-euro rate, I do not know the term in English, but Airbus is well secured against any volatility between Euro and Dollar by some buy-option deals. So they do not earn plus the one way but do not loose the other. Would be too risky otherwise. So, I guess the dollar is not the point for Boeing.

could be anything what would have been the reason for ordering such a high number of 787 only. The better plane for Qantas' routes, the cheaper offer, or a better strategy when buying Boeing's Y3 since Y2 and Y3 are going to use many common technologies.

Or is Boeing going to build an assembly line in Australia?

BTW. Qantas has once said (this year) that they not sell enough first class seats between Europe and South pacific. So they have moved them out on some routes. It was in some Airline magazine where a spokesperson from Qantas gave an interview.

I think there are just not as many first class flyers between Europe and Australia as between North Atlantic, Asia and Europe. So the bad first class option with 787 is just very consequently done.

-lr.

dna · Post by **dna** » 15 Dec 2005, 11:31

It was not Qantas who ordered the "Dream"liners. It was Jetstar.

And Jetstar IIRC is a paper airline with no fleet as of now, no interiors and no service clases.

Does anyone have a clue about when Jetstar would start service, with which planes, with which interiors and service classes?

Not entirely correct. It is a mixed order for Jetstart and Qantas mainline operations. Here's an extract from the Qantas press release giving further details regarding the operations of Jetstar.

"One of our clear priorities is for Jetstar to be ready for international operations by early 2007, with the fastest possible transition to new technology, more efficient aircraft," Mr Dixon said.

Mr Dixon said Jetstar would commence operations with an interim fleet of four A330-200 aircraft and transition as quickly as possible to a fleet of 10 new Boeing 787 aircraft, with delivery of Jetstar's first B787 scheduled for August 2008.

"We will take delivery of the first B787 for Qantas mainline operations in July 2009," he said.

"The Boeing 787 is ideal for operating to Asia, as well the USA and Europe, and with 300 seats, will enable both Qantas and Jetstar to closely target markets without compromising efficiency," he said.

lastrow · Post by **lastrow** » 15 Dec 2005, 12:59

why is that jetstar deal? is Jetstar another brand to cover a different market or is the Jetstar deal because Qantas does not want to spoil their accident statistics? AFAIK, Quantas has got an execellent record with no losses. is there the faint chance that Qantas just want to operate only proven planes - remembering the comet issues et al?

-lr.