They couldn't buy a new one, the competition between Jetair and Thomas Cook is very hard.
They should do so like Thomas Cook. Take a very reliable airline who flies the long haul for you. After some years you could think to buy or lease a better aircraft.
The problem with JetairFly is that they had a rocket start from the beginning, that was the big mistake.
OO-TUC 767-300ER delayed
Moderator: Latest news team
Not so far ago OO-SLR and OO-SLS were the Jetair aircrafts for long haul: some times, you understand too late that it's difficult to maintain standards...Atlantis wrote:They couldn't buy a new one, the competition between Jetair and Thomas Cook is very hard.
They should do so like Thomas Cook. Take a very reliable airline who flies the long haul for you. After some years you could think to buy or lease a better aircraft.
The problem with JetairFly is that they had a rocket start from the beginning, that was the big mistake.
Still missing SLR!
Totally agree with you SN26567 and also with Air2D2.sn26567 wrote:How can you say that? I think instead that they are playing it safe, grounding an aircraft for technical reasons is indeed a safety measure that will save the lives of passengers.Jean wrote:TUI is playing with the lifes of pax, this is a disgrace!
Guys, you really shouldn't pay so much attention to VTM (and HLN in extenso). This sad source of "news" always put the spotlight on the bad news, and when it's good news it's always that silly "special animal" or "royal family child born" news. They are directly responsible for the so-called "verzuring"(*) in our country and they give aviation a bad name. Although I know and appreciate your good intentions, by mentioning their "news" on this forum I'm afraid you support their destructive actions towards society and aviation.
(*) for non dutch-speaking viewers: "verzuring" is our word for the kind of thing that makes you f.e. call the police immediately when children playing outside are making noise.
After I've seen the newsitem I feel the impression that it is "ok" for pax to be rude to crew. Viewers pick this up, and will also start to behave rude to airport staff and airline crews.
They give a kind of "authority" to the rumours (!! no facts !!) of the pax by broadcasting it nationwide.There is another source of TV-news which is much more "fair and balanced". They didn't cover this news item, which says enough about the importance of this subject.
Jetairfly is one of Belgium's most thrustworthy airlines, they are the proud of BRU along with SN and VEX. They made the right decision. When Jetairfly certifies that the aircraft is safe, I won't hesitate to fly on OO-TUC. 8)
Allow me to disagree:
1. the number of technicals for this OO-TUC is unacceptable high.
2. the flight schedules for OO-TUC, specially during weekends, is too strict: Mexico/Cuba, then Dominican, then Egypt: every time with only 1,5 hours for refueling and (off)loading passengers.
3. passengers have the right to complain if their holiday trip is not taking place as promised/planned. How do you think people will react if we tell them their seven-day (five-nights) holiday is shortened in with 24 hours? "Oh, no problem that the plane is broken down and you therefore have to put me in a hotel: is the use of towels included?" Let us be realistic please: pax are allowed to complain, and if there are 275 pax involved, there will be many complaints.
4. their holiday doens't start at touch down at final destination: it starts when they leave their home.
5. the information about the delay always is far from correct. Just look at what happened last Monday/Tuesday: while TUB had arranged a back up from EuroAtlantic, the flight was still announced as dep 07h00. TUB then already knew it would be only afternoon.
6. with all respect for those working at the check-in or the ticket delivery office (and I know this job, as I'm quite often at check-in myself): if you cannot handle stress situations like complaining pax, please ask TUB or Aviapartner for another job. Handling angry pax is part of the job.
7. VTM always gives Hans Halemeeersch (press center Jetair/Jetairfly/TUB) the possibility to react. Het Laatste Nieuws has a full time tourism/travel journalist, so it's obvious they're the first to know.
As someone said in another reply: it's about timeTUB/Jetair admits there is a structural problem with their long haul.
1. the number of technicals for this OO-TUC is unacceptable high.
2. the flight schedules for OO-TUC, specially during weekends, is too strict: Mexico/Cuba, then Dominican, then Egypt: every time with only 1,5 hours for refueling and (off)loading passengers.
3. passengers have the right to complain if their holiday trip is not taking place as promised/planned. How do you think people will react if we tell them their seven-day (five-nights) holiday is shortened in with 24 hours? "Oh, no problem that the plane is broken down and you therefore have to put me in a hotel: is the use of towels included?" Let us be realistic please: pax are allowed to complain, and if there are 275 pax involved, there will be many complaints.
4. their holiday doens't start at touch down at final destination: it starts when they leave their home.
5. the information about the delay always is far from correct. Just look at what happened last Monday/Tuesday: while TUB had arranged a back up from EuroAtlantic, the flight was still announced as dep 07h00. TUB then already knew it would be only afternoon.
6. with all respect for those working at the check-in or the ticket delivery office (and I know this job, as I'm quite often at check-in myself): if you cannot handle stress situations like complaining pax, please ask TUB or Aviapartner for another job. Handling angry pax is part of the job.
7. VTM always gives Hans Halemeeersch (press center Jetair/Jetairfly/TUB) the possibility to react. Het Laatste Nieuws has a full time tourism/travel journalist, so it's obvious they're the first to know.
As someone said in another reply: it's about timeTUB/Jetair admits there is a structural problem with their long haul.
Yes, you are right. The passenger has the right to complain, despite he doesn't know about the technical details. The customer is right, he paid for it.
And complaining to check inn staff does help. If the check inn staff can not cope with it, they leave their jobs, and the bad employer has to rethink its strategy.
Doing long haul operations without back up possebilities is unrealistic. See the Phuket Air saga.
And complaining to check inn staff does help. If the check inn staff can not cope with it, they leave their jobs, and the bad employer has to rethink its strategy.
Doing long haul operations without back up possebilities is unrealistic. See the Phuket Air saga.
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Flying-Belgian
- Posts: 244
- Joined: 17 Aug 2003, 00:00
- Location: Namur - Namen
- Contact:
Couldn't agree more with you !!LX-LGX wrote:Allow me to disagree:
1. the number of technicals for this OO-TUC is unacceptable high.
2. the flight schedules for OO-TUC, specially during weekends, is too strict: Mexico/Cuba, then Dominican, then Egypt: every time with only 1,5 hours for refueling and (off)loading passengers.
3. passengers have the right to complain if their holiday trip is not taking place as promised/planned. How do you think people will react if we tell them their seven-day (five-nights) holiday is shortened in with 24 hours? "Oh, no problem that the plane is broken down and you therefore have to put me in a hotel: is the use of towels included?" Let us be realistic please: pax are allowed to complain, and if there are 275 pax involved, there will be many complaints.
4. their holiday doens't start at touch down at final destination: it starts when they leave their home.
5. the information about the delay always is far from correct. Just look at what happened last Monday/Tuesday: while TUB had arranged a back up from EuroAtlantic, the flight was still announced as dep 07h00. TUB then already knew it would be only afternoon.
6. with all respect for those working at the check-in or the ticket delivery office (and I know this job, as I'm quite often at check-in myself): if you cannot handle stress situations like complaining pax, please ask TUB or Aviapartner for another job. Handling angry pax is part of the job.
7. VTM always gives Hans Halemeeersch (press center Jetair/Jetairfly/TUB) the possibility to react. Het Laatste Nieuws has a full time tourism/travel journalist, so it's obvious they're the first to know.
As someone said in another reply: it's about timeTUB/Jetair admits there is a structural problem with their long haul.
Let's hope many stranded passengers are aware of the possibility to fill a full complaint at the Commission Litige Voyages/Geschillencommissie Reizen. Generally travel agents push you to do so, though I'm not sure TUI Travel Centers will do so !! 8O
And indeed, not so long ago OO-SLR/SLS were doing a fantastic job @ Sobelair... I've recently one of those two in Hainan colours in Budapest.
I totally agree with LX-LGX and regi.
TUI (or Jetairfly as the are called now) takes the right decision not to fly when the aircraft has technical problems.
However, they should be able to provide for a quick back-up when this happens.
Using only one aircraft for such a busy long-haul schedule is taking a lot of risks to have problems with delays, etc.
I know it is mostly very difficult to find available planes on short notice, but they must have realised this when they decided to lease only one plane? I know Jetairfly is a young company, and that leasing and operating two long-haul planes is financially more difficult, but is the actual situation with the needs for compensations and paying lease fees for back-up planes so much better? Jetairfly should have thought at a longer term, and not only on short terms.
I understand the angry reaction of the passengers. When you go on holiday to the Caribbean for 8 days (6 or 7 nights), you do not want to spend the first night in the airport or in a hotel in or around Brussels...
I fear this ongoing story will make a very bad publicity for Jetair.
I myself flew on OO-TUC on its very first commercial flight to Varadero on February 9, 2005. Luckily only to Varadero, as the plane gut stuck in Cancun on its next leg... My flight, and the flight back, again with OO-TUC, were totally uneventful and on time. But I'm not sure if I will book again with Jetair. Not that I have fears to fly on OO-TUC again, but for me, the few days I can take holidays in a year are very important, and I want to avoid the stress of delayed planes, etc...
TUI (or Jetairfly as the are called now) takes the right decision not to fly when the aircraft has technical problems.
However, they should be able to provide for a quick back-up when this happens.
Using only one aircraft for such a busy long-haul schedule is taking a lot of risks to have problems with delays, etc.
I know it is mostly very difficult to find available planes on short notice, but they must have realised this when they decided to lease only one plane? I know Jetairfly is a young company, and that leasing and operating two long-haul planes is financially more difficult, but is the actual situation with the needs for compensations and paying lease fees for back-up planes so much better? Jetairfly should have thought at a longer term, and not only on short terms.
I understand the angry reaction of the passengers. When you go on holiday to the Caribbean for 8 days (6 or 7 nights), you do not want to spend the first night in the airport or in a hotel in or around Brussels...
I fear this ongoing story will make a very bad publicity for Jetair.
I myself flew on OO-TUC on its very first commercial flight to Varadero on February 9, 2005. Luckily only to Varadero, as the plane gut stuck in Cancun on its next leg... My flight, and the flight back, again with OO-TUC, were totally uneventful and on time. But I'm not sure if I will book again with Jetair. Not that I have fears to fly on OO-TUC again, but for me, the few days I can take holidays in a year are very important, and I want to avoid the stress of delayed planes, etc...
As the spokesperson of Jetairfly already said, this is totally untrue. People think that because VTM makes a hype of every technical of OO-TUC.LX-LGX wrote:Allow me to disagree:
1. the number of technicals for this OO-TUC is unacceptable high.
OO-TUC does *not* have more technical problems than any other 763.
OO-TUC does *not* have more technical problems than any other 763.
The only problem is that it's Jetairfly's only 763 so when it does have a technical the pax are stuck until they find another airplane. I agree with you that this is a structural problem that they should fix.
When the aircraft had a technical some months ago, people also said it was bad publicity for Jetair. Monday, 250 pax had booked a holiday, so I don't think people care that much. After all, due to the irrelevance, this "news" is only covered by a minority of news sources in Belgium.
Once again, I agree with you folks that the structural problem should be fixed.
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EBAW_flyer
- Posts: 557
- Joined: 29 Sep 2003, 00:00
I was quoting the spokesperson of Jetairfly. He represents Jetairfly, including their dispatch service. He obviously knows what he's talking about.EBAW_flyer wrote:Sorry, but this is NOT true. You obviously don't know what you are talking about. Even staff of TUI dispatch confirmed to me that there are lots of problems with the ex-VARIG plane. This NOT AT ALL normal.OO-TUC does *not* have more technical problems than any other 763.
The newsitem that confirms this statement is still available on the vtm website.
IMO they could maybe try to get a second 763 and have OO-TUC completely revised (D-check), I'm sure it could be rather expensive for them but handling with such delays and replacement a/c won't be cheap eather. They could also keep a second one to do the flights which are now handled by the MNG A300 and maybe some Egypt flights in the summer season if they manage to fill up the a/c off course.
Last year we had a delay of 30 hours when we flied to the Dom.Rep.We only get compensation of 1 night. We booked for a total of 7000 euro and we only get 331 euro. We needed to spend also on a next trip with Jetair.
As you can see when the press is been warning about the situation , then can they give 75 euro/person and 2 nights in return.
As you can see when the press is been warning about the situation , then can they give 75 euro/person and 2 nights in return.
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TC-MNE
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Vinnie-Winnie
- Posts: 955
- Joined: 01 Jul 2004, 00:00
- Location: London
And you obviously trust him!Sebas wrote:
The newsitem that confirms this statement is still available on the vtm website.
Common every company protects itself by denying things! Even the most obvious stuff sometimes! remember Nestle and its milk powder?
u'r very naive I reckon! or U just have to much faith in tui!
Anyway no offense! 8)
Does anyone know why they bought that aircraft? and even its history?
Fortunately though TUI seems to be very cautious! Better be safe than sorry...
Poor guys!flywim wrote:Don't tell me!!!!
I am working at the airport and i already have been in such
situations; it's far from pleasant, that i can assure you!!!!
Two years ago I had the same situation with an FQ A320 to Reus,
plane had engine troubles and after a 5 hour delay, flight was
cancelled!! I had to transfer all 180 pax on other flights:
* some 25 pax on the TUB flight to Reus
* 50pax on a chartered F50 of VLM
* some 65 pax on the VY flight to BCN with bustransfer to REU
* the remaining 40 pax on a chartered ERJ-145 of a British Company
(don't know anymore which one)
I had to make decisions which pax on which flight, not easy!!!!
When I got home after a 14 hour day of work (04h00-18h00),
I was pissed off and couldn't stand any noise!!
On the one hand I understand those pax, because such news is not
very pleasant to hear, certainly not when you save the money for
vacation and suddenly you loose one day, but as you said, the staff
can't help it, it's not our fault that a plane goes technical !!
But the ground staff is already the first one where pax can react to, and
blown some steam off;
I guess that's part of our job
regards
Have you ever seen people shouting like this in a railway station ????
Why not???
Garydus, train delays are usually 5 or 10 minutes, sometimes 20 minutes.
Pax who complain is part of our job: if everything is done as we've promised them, they don't complain. If we promise them they will leave on Friday morning 10h00 and we can only let them fly on Saturday afternoon, they have the right to complain.
Pax who complain is part of our job: if everything is done as we've promised them, they don't complain. If we promise them they will leave on Friday morning 10h00 and we can only let them fly on Saturday afternoon, they have the right to complain.
To Garydus:
people don't shout like that in railway stations because everybody knows that the railway people are untouchable. I came back once from a nice trip with BA. I boarded the Airport City express at Brussels Airport. Within 5 minutes, a passenger - also an airport employee - was insulted by an uniformed railway employee. Other passengers started to intervene about his bad behaviour. The guy treatened to call the railway police. But another passenger had made a recording on a mobile phone and asked him if he would like it to talk about his rude behaviour to the police. He just walked away.
This is a good comparison between rail and air transport.
It has to do with the status of the employees. Sabena had a bad reputation for customer service in the days of semi state employment. But today we see that the SNBA staff is regarded as high class.
people don't shout like that in railway stations because everybody knows that the railway people are untouchable. I came back once from a nice trip with BA. I boarded the Airport City express at Brussels Airport. Within 5 minutes, a passenger - also an airport employee - was insulted by an uniformed railway employee. Other passengers started to intervene about his bad behaviour. The guy treatened to call the railway police. But another passenger had made a recording on a mobile phone and asked him if he would like it to talk about his rude behaviour to the police. He just walked away.
This is a good comparison between rail and air transport.
It has to do with the status of the employees. Sabena had a bad reputation for customer service in the days of semi state employment. But today we see that the SNBA staff is regarded as high class.