IST-BRU SN3268 10 Nov: drunken pax tried to open a door

LX-LGX · Post by **LX-LGX** » 11 Nov 2005, 12:44

10 Nov 2005
SN3268
A319
IST-BRU
14h45-17h10

A drunken passenger tried to open a door. Two Belgian policemen, coming back from a deportation mission, were on board and could hold the man till arrival in Brussels.

Dronken man wil vliegtuigdeur opentrekken in volle vlucht

BRUSSEL - Tijdens een vlucht van Turkije naar Brussel heeft een dronken passagier gisteren in volle vlucht geprobeerd een vliegtuigdeur te openen. Bij toeval waren in het toestel twee agenten aanwezig die de man konden overmeesteren.

De 29-jarige man bevond zich aan boord van een toestel van vliegtuigmaatschappij SN Brussels Airlines dat omstreeks 15 uur Belgische tijd vanuit het Turkse Istanbul vertrokken was richting Zaventem. De passagier had te veel gedronken en wilde op een bepaald moment, ongeveer halverwege de vlucht, een deur opentrekken.

Toevallig zaten op dezelfde vlucht twee agenten van de luchthavenpolitie die terugkeerden van een repatriëring. Ze konden de man overmeesteren en hem voor de rest van de vlucht in bedwang houden.

De man is van Belgische origine, maar woont in Turkije. Hij was op weg voor een veertiendaags bezoek aan zijn familie in België. De 29-jarige heeft ook nog een Belgisch adres in Willebroek.

Het Brusselse parket ondervraagt de man vandaag en beslist dan over zijn lot. Hij zou aan de politie al gezegd hebben dat hij zich van de feiten niets meer herinnert. Hij is niet bekend bij het gerecht.

Advisor · Post by **Advisor** » 11 Nov 2005, 12:52

The information seems to be a security issue. An english version would be appreciated, since we aviation geeks would want to know what happened and how it was tackled.

LX-LGX · Post by **LX-LGX** » 11 Nov 2005, 13:25

Just because of the security, we will now find out how it happened exactly (unless a passenger phones 4040 VTM...)

This news report only says that the man was 28 years old, that he was drunk and that he tried to open a door on cruising altitude. Which door? Doesn't matter.

Fortunately, two Belgian policemen were on board: they came back from a deportation mission and they managed to overpower the man.

No more details are given, and let's keep it that way and not focus too much on the incident: luchtzak.be is a public site, and security on board is no public matter.

mafrick · Post by **mafrick** » 11 Nov 2005, 13:32

Tried to open a door on cruising altitude...

Good luck

website-info · Post by **website-info** » 11 Nov 2005, 13:51

I think the public has a right to know !

Did the crew serve him more booze?

or

Did the ground staff just let a drunk passenger on board,

either way ...............

T

dre · Post by **dre** » 11 Nov 2005, 14:02

Hi everybody,

I was on board this aircraft. SN crew did a good job.

Greetz

Dre

Advisor · Post by **Advisor** » 11 Nov 2005, 15:39

dre wrote:Hi everybody,

I was on board this aircraft. SN crew did a good job.

Greetz

Dre

The SN crew or the Belgian Police

And yes was he trying to open the door on crusing altitude as asked by one of our ppl here

C_J · Post by **C_J** » 11 Nov 2005, 16:11

If he was drunk, why was he on board???

regi · Post by **regi** » 11 Nov 2005, 16:16

Why people start to fuzz about letting him on board? He should not have done it. This guy has to realize he was lucky he was not on a transatlantic flight, or the airmarshall would have intervened in a appropriate manner.
If we continue to blame the airlines for (accidentally) allowing drunk passengers on board, the next step will be that every passenger will have to undergo a breatheliser test before boarding.

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 11 Nov 2005, 16:17

incredible story indeed. And it's always nice to hear the the SN crew did a nice job.

But people shouldn't worry too much. Ok it's a drunken pax and he can be dangerous, but he would never have managed to open the door. AFAIK doors are designed to first open to the inside and then outside with the mechanism. Due to the Delta_P difference between the inside and outside it'll be impossible for the guy to open the door.

Chris

3 EDITS: Typo's

LX-LGX · Post by **LX-LGX** » 11 Nov 2005, 17:01

Agree, but so far, no press report mentionned that it's impossible to open a door at 37.000 ft.

People therefore think that it is possible to open a door high in the sky, and that only the presence of 2 policemen avoided a crash.

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 11 Nov 2005, 17:12

LX-LGX wrote:Agree, but so far, no press report mentionned that it's impossible to open a door at 37.000 ft.

Indeed that's a pity. But journalists usually tend to make news sensational otherwise it wouldn't sell

Chris

EDIT change one word from always to usually

dre · Post by **dre** » 11 Nov 2005, 17:47

Hello everybody,

There was no danger at any time. Crew reaction was professional, relaxed and if policemen were not on board normal pax would have assisted.

Post by **Bruspotter** » 11 Nov 2005, 18:00

Hello

Easy to talk yourselves free , I don't remember myself a thing of it...'

Well , might as well be like that but anyway , what a disaster would that have given if the man could have actually opened the door...the front sitting pax getting sucked out , cabin pressure descending , no oxygen , freezing heavily , or maybe even just demolished...there would have died several pax I would guess...so never go over that too quick. It's a serious case. 8O

Best regards: Yannick

Sabena_690 · Post by **Sabena_690** » 11 Nov 2005, 18:09

bruspotter wrote:what a disaster would that have given if the man could have actually opened the door...the front sitting pax getting sucked out , cabin pressure descending , no oxygen , freezing heavily , or maybe even just demolished...there would have died several pax I would guess...so never go over that too quick.

As LG-LGX correctly stated, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO OPEN THE DOORS IN FLIGHT. So please stop your imagination about passengers being sucked out of the aircraft etc.

bruspotter wrote:It's a serious case.

Indeed, and that's why I'm sure that SN will do its utmost to investigate what happened.

Frederic

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 11 Nov 2005, 18:14

Bruspotter wrote:
Easy to talk yourselves free , I don't remember myself a thing of it...' Well , might as well be like that but anyway , what a disaster would that have given if the man could have actually opened the door...the front sitting pax getting sucked out , cabin pressure descending , no oxygen , freezing heavily , or maybe even just demolished...there would have died several pax I would guess...so never go over that too quick. It's a serious case. 8O

Of course it's a serious case. The man should be punished for having an unacceptable behavior on a plane. I agree on that part of the story. But believe me the man wouldn't have been able to open the door, even if he was the strongest man in the world

!!!

be realistic before writing such scenarios as you are doing. It's maybe good for a movie but would not happen in real life.

Let's imagine the man is strong enough to open the door to the outside (he must have taken a lot of steroids

) Now he still has to slide the door to the front of the plane if it's a front door doesn't he ? And do you think this is easy when the airflow on that part of the fuselage is even higher than the cruising speed of Mach 0.80 ??? I don't think so.

Ok now let's imagine he is superman he opens the door perfectly and let's assume the door stays open. Well the guy is sucked out indeed and you have a quick depressurisation. The oxygen masks will fall down which means the pax will still have oxygen not as you say. The pilots will take their oxygen masks and initiate a rapid descend.

If the passengers sitting near the "hole" have their seatbelt fasten they wouldn't fall down. (look at the crash of the B747 of UA a couple of years ago) There was a big hole and people sitting next to the hole survived.

Aviation isn't the same as hollywood

But as I said in my earlier reply, the door cannot be opened inflight.

Chris

EDITS: Typo's

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 11 Nov 2005, 18:23

Erata:

Just forgot one thing. Since the door is armed the emergency slide will also be in the way

Chris

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 11 Nov 2005, 19:23

Avro wrote:Due to the Delta_P difference between the inside and outside it'll be impossible for the guy to open the door.

Let's make things a little bit more clear with some numbers:

Let's assume the follwoing:

- a door has an area of 2 m^2 (I don't know the real dimensions)
- pressure at 9000ft is approx 75000Pa
- pressure at 33000ft is approx 30000Pa

All those figures are approximations since they depend on local weather phenomena.

Now this means we have a Delta_P of 45000Pa

A pressure is a Force/Area [N/m^2]:

This means that the force acting on the door is roughly: 45000*2= 90000 N

This means that the guy has to counter a 90000N force to be able to open the door at cruising level.

Bruspotter, The day you can open a door by generating such a force you will be featuring in the guiness book of records

Case closed

Chris

killerwhale65 · Post by **killerwhale65** » 11 Nov 2005, 19:37

meanwhile its in the news:
http://www.vrtnieuws.net/nieuwsnet_mast ... ndex.shtml

dna · Post by **dna** » 11 Nov 2005, 20:35

I do not like the way the press is once again being slagged off here.

Indeed that's a pity. But journalists always tend to make news sensational otherwise it wouldn't sell

I find that an outrageous comment to make. Journalists deal with facts, and I see nothing but facts in the story as it was reproduced here. The story writer was not turning it into a sensational story. Nowhere does the story suggest that the man came close to opening the door, or that it is indeed possible to do such thing.

Get your facts straight before posting generalised comments, especially when these comments are completely unfounded.

Dave