15 October 2005: D-day BRU

SierraGolfDelta · Post by **SierraGolfDelta** » 19 Oct 2005, 13:35

I challenge anybody to find a suitable route over crowded and densely populated Belgium where you will not cause any noiseproblems! There is also no way of comparing the 'quartet' Brussels, Liège, Ostend and Antwerp with Stansted-Heathrow and Luton or CDG and Orly! Dispersing flights over these airports is suicide! There is no connection whatsoever between them.

Zaventem isn't even linked with the high speed train network in Europe!

What bothers me in all this are the ones complaining the most: people who, 20 years ago, bought their houses or building grounds at bottom-prize because of the airport!!! Now that the loans are paid for and suddenly this part of the country becomes highly attractive for its proximity to Brussels to a.o. Eurocrats... the very same airport becomes an obstacle... and the difference between a house sold at a normal price or very much overpriced...

Spoken about solidarity

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 19 Oct 2005, 19:49

This is a little bid off topic but I want to post this here.

Much of the talks are about BRU airport, pax and cargo, but also Melsbroek, military and government airplanes, are also an important part of this.

BIAC and Defense have an agreement about the noise of the C-130 when they are testing their engines. Especially Steenokkerzeel had a lot of ground noise when the engines turns.
The agreement include this: the C-130 get a new place at the airport to test their engines, it will be more central and some solid materials will also be moved to that new place.

Steenokkerzeel is very pleased about the cooperation of BIAC and Defense.

Source: Het Nieuwsblad

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 21 Oct 2005, 22:34

There is progress in the talks about Zaventem.

Belgocontrol gives their opinion and the proposals of Brussels and Flanders and technical ok and save, so no problem about that.

The points at this moment are the weekends and the night till 7 o'clock.

For tonight, the meeting is over. Next is Monday and Thuesday. Normally the final decision will be made next week.

Post by **sn26567** » 22 Oct 2005, 16:55

Atlantis wrote:Belgocontrol gives their opinion

Glad to see that the politicians have at least invited the specialists. But will they listen to them?

LX-LGX · Post by **LX-LGX** » 22 Oct 2005, 17:49

André, the problem is that the politicians think THEY ARE the specialists. They don't regard Belgacontrol as specialists: they regard them as technocrats.

Anyway: I share your opinion that Belgacontrol will direct them (the specialists...) to a final agreement.

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 22 Oct 2005, 20:13

No doubt about the fact that the opinion of Belgocontrol is very important in this case.

The last couple of days when the different governments and Minister Landuyt had their meetings, every time there were people of Belgocontrol at the meeting.

This is why those negotiations are very different then the past under durant and Anciaux. Those people thought they were the specialists, they created new routes or a differtion plan, and it was not safe.

Minister Landuyt leads this negotiations, in my opinion, is a very good way. It's very structural, step by step, and everyone talks with each other.

I'm sure they will have a solution by next week.

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 26 Oct 2005, 17:27

Has anybody heard more news about the negociations yesterday? Normally all the governments and Landuyt had their meeting, or was it cancelled?

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 27 Oct 2005, 20:03

I have a very strange feeling at this moment. Nothing in the media, no meetings known for the three governments. Last weekend they said that this week was the last week to have a solution for the airport, they don't want to have an "allerheiligen" solution.

Two options:

they don't have a solution

or, they have a solution who have some big impacts on the environment.

But, I have my doubt's about the silence then, mister Landuyt was at every time open in his reactions.

pascal-air · Post by **pascal-air** » 27 Oct 2005, 21:22

Atlantis wrote:I have a very strange feeling at this moment. Nothing in the media, no meetings known for the three governments.

No news good news?

No I feel nothing good in fact. All meetings were canceled. I think that the two view (flemish and brussels) are too opposite than no plan could be done. But this is just my feeling. I do not have fact except that the planed meeting were all canceled.

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 27 Oct 2005, 21:55

Or it could be that the flemish or Brussels government gave other plans, opinions and that Belgocontrol investigate those.
At this moment, the Brussels government put the penaltys in the fridge, so that can't be the problem.

pascal-air · Post by **pascal-air** » 27 Oct 2005, 23:05

Atlantis wrote:Or it could be that the flemish or Brussels government gave other plans, opinions and that Belgocontrol investigate those.
At this moment, the Brussels government put the penaltys in the fridge, so that can't be the problem.

So just be patient and wait

But indeed the sooner, the better (if the solution is good of course and accepted by both goverments, and BIAC).

pascal-air · Post by **pascal-air** » 28 Oct 2005, 19:36

From last news I heard, negotiations failed, and the penalities are being applied very soon (this we) with retroactive effect.

No more negotiation planed, it's a full failure.

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 28 Oct 2005, 20:06

According to what I read today was that Landuyt have separated talks with The Flanders and Brussels government. This because to two visions are far away. Landuyt had decided that Tuesday afternoon.

The problems for Brussels were the wind norms and the "rest" period for everyone. They want back to the situation before 1999.

From Flanders no news at all.

I have no clue how they will have a solution right now.

The coming weeks, some top ministers have holiday and within two weeks the majority of the Federal and Flanders government are going outside. They are going to the Far East, China, Hong Kong, etc.

For the moment fingers crossed and hope for the best.

pascal-air · Post by **pascal-air** » 28 Oct 2005, 20:17

Atlantis wrote:According to what I read today was that Landuyt have separated talks with The Flanders and Brussels government. This because to two visions are far away. Landuyt had decided that Tuesday afternoon.

For me, a solution can not come soon. Moreover, Tobback has made some comment that are not appropriate, and that will froze opinion.

I am still hoping that the 1999 solution will be chosen because I think that it will be the only one solution that will fit both governments and biac and airport development. Any other solution will fail and will be instable because of the law...

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 28 Oct 2005, 21:34

Tobback indeed join the discussion. This with the new rail track from Leuven to the airport. He said, Leuven is for a part ridge due to the airport and in that case they want also part of the flights but not when Brussels gets no airplane at all. In that situation he will defend Leuven and not support the negotiations.

And Brussels: They had no faith in what BIAC says about the wind norms and the using of the runways. Piqué said that a solution is far away and not for tomorrow. But, they said no words about the penalty's.

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 28 Oct 2005, 21:53

I have found more news on the site of Kanaal Z. Tonight the Flemish, Brussels and Mister Landuyt are back together around the table. The atmosphere is very pessimistic.
Kris Peeters said the the plan of Landuyt is not acceptable, Flanders wants their own proposition. Brussels said that the plan of Landuyt is a step back. And at this moment the different governments offer more unacceptable propositions.
But, no penalty's at all at this moment. Both parties said that they are talking and that's important.

Source; Kanaal Z

Post by **airbuske** » 28 Oct 2005, 21:54

Sorry for the moment only in Dutch:Landuyt stelt schema rond spreidingsplan voor

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 29 Oct 2005, 09:53

Yesterday at 23H the Brussels government left the negotiations.

The biggest problem at this moment are the weekendflights. Today are the negotiations separated and by phone.

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 05 Nov 2005, 11:01

Next week the negotiations are going further.

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 05 Nov 2005, 21:57

This is a little bit

fftopic: but also a vision on what after 15 October 2005, the future of our airport.

Today Leterme and Moerman are departed together with 30 officials of companies or organizations to China. It's the third mission to China this year. One of the headlines are bringing tourists to Belgium. They have predicted that it will be smootly, they have announced that they will bring more visits to China in the very near future.