Passenger jet skids off runway, in flames at Toronto airport

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Ovostar
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Post by Ovostar »

Airbus330lover wrote:The photograph was very calm, to take such a pictures.
I have seen something about that on tv, Psychologist.about this phenomene of peoople taking pictures in dramatic moments, like the one filming inside the london underground during the bombs of the Jul 7th...

They were saying, thaht maybe people are filming, so they can still feel in control of the situation, it gives them something to do, avoiding them to panic... I am not sure it's true, but interesting theory...

How do you know that the "copilot" landed the aircraft ?

SN30952
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Post by SN30952 »

Ovostar wrote:How do you know that the "copilot" landed the aircraft ?
Call that networking.
Btw I never read a newspaper title like this:
Air France jet makes fireball landing in Canada

HorsePower
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Post by HorsePower »

SN30952 wrote:Btw I never read a newspaper title like this:
Air France jet makes fireball landing in Canada
Could it be a little bit over exagerated, Fons :lol: :roll: ?


As I said earlier :roll: :
Accident A340 à Toronto : le Canada et Air France se rejettent la faute (french)

Canadian minister says Air France pilot chose to land before crash

Accident A340 à Toronto: le Canada et Air France se rejettent la faute (french, plus complet)

Regards

Seb.

SN30952
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Post by SN30952 »

Co-pilot of Air France crash questioned

Air France pilot still in hospital

Listen to Looking for Lessons in Toronto's Air France Crash

A dozen passengers remained hospitalised on Thursday, some with broken bones, but none apparently with life-threatening injuries.
The captain of Flight 358 was still in the hospital with injuries to his back.

Real Levasseur, leading the investigation by Canada's Transportation Safety Board, emphasised that wind shear likely wasn't a factor in the crash -- as has been speculated -- because that usually would only affect aircraft in flight. He also doubted lightning played a role.

And here is the confirmation: Levasseur said The co-pilot, who was in charge of the landing, had 10,700 hours of flying time, and the 57-year-old pilot had 15,000 hours.

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Airbus330lover
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Post by Airbus330lover »

SN30952 wrote:
Real Levasseur, leading the investigation by Canada's Transportation Safety Board, emphasised that wind shear likely wasn't a factor in the crash -- as has been speculated -- because that usually would only affect aircraft in flight. He also doubted lightning played a role.

And here is the confirmation: Levasseur said The co-pilot, who was in charge of the landing, had 10,700 hours of flying time, and the 57-year-old pilot had 15,000 hours.
My opinion: too early to made such a statement.

HorsePower
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Post by HorsePower »

My opinion: this man is right, it's probably due to the overflooded runway.

Regards

Seb.

Ovostar
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Post by Ovostar »

So... let's make a sondage! Who's fault is it ? Air France , Toronto airport or ... destiny ?

SR89
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Post by SR89 »

ALPA Statement on Airport Issues in the Air France Accident

The crash of Air France Flt. 358 in Toronto occurred at an international airport that, unfortunately, does not meet international standards. It is the latest in a series of airline accidents that highlight the dangers of inadequate runway safety areas.

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bits44
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Post by bits44 »

I think the wisest thing to do, is to stop trying to second guess the investigators, pointing fingers at pilots, ATC, runway length, weather, you name it, will not solve the cause.

A thorough investigation by the Canadian Transport Safety Board, and a host of other investigators, will combine their findings and discover the true cause or causes.

KT

SN30952
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Recommandation

Post by SN30952 »

The human factor is often involved in the history of such mishaps.
One might also imagine the investigators make wrong first conclusions.
I recommand we here not go in the way of early conclusions, when we don't have sufficient objective data to do so.
But what I do know, and I agree Canada is a great, great country, this is again a runway related incident in Canada. And since there are no coincidences...

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Vinnie-Winnie
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Post by Vinnie-Winnie »

What about blamin both the pilots and the weather! Because the weather (grrrrrrrr), the pilots had to take a decision on whether to land in toronto or not! They did land nicely but once again because of the weather (grrrrrrr again) the runway was overflooded, which meant that the aircraft wasn't able to stop as it should have done!

Weather 2 points pilots 1 so it's the weather :)

btw fyi ovostar "un sondage" is a poll! :)

SN30952
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The decision to land has already become a controversy.

Post by SN30952 »

The only person who makes a decision to land is the pilot, the commander.

The initial landing appeared very normal said Real Levasseur, lead investigator for the Canadian transportation safety agency "There was no emergency declared from the part of the air crew and there didn't seem to be anything wrong with the aircraft condition and its safety as it was approaching to land.
At least three of four engine thrust reversers deployed during landing, which means "the crew were doing what they were supposed to do to slow the aircraft down after landing."

The fourth thruster was too badly damaged to tell whether it had been working, Levasseur said.
A strong tail wind may have given the plane a push as it sped along the runway.
The A340 could have aquaplaned because of the torrential rain in the area.

A flight attendant and 12 passengers were still in hospital.
The worst injuries in the crash are with a lady with three vertebrae and her husband with one fractured: When you get your back broken in three places, it's not minor from the point of view of the patient the doctors said.
The couple were sitting in the first row in first class at the front of the plane. In L´Espace Première. Un moment rare.
The husband got his nose broken when his knee was thrown up as the A340 went down in the ravine. (Both have Italian sounding names: Carla S. and Enrico G. - full name intentionally withheld, you can PM me, I know also their doctor's name.)
Hope they get better soon.

Ovostar
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Post by Ovostar »

So.. most injured people are inured because of the shock of the plane with the ravine (like all the people who were in the front of the plane, like the 2 pilots,) and less because of smoke or the evacuation jump....

and about the pilot decision, there is a french sentance (i heaured in french news): "Seul maître à bord, après dieu. " (Only Master on board, after god)... which means that the pilot alwas have the final decision.

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Bob_Marcotte
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Post by Bob_Marcotte »

Ovostar wrote:I don't understand, you are saying that the copilot "landed" the plane ? Why ? Isn't it the Pilot Job ?

:roll: :roll: :roll:


As far as the accident in Toronto goes we can only guess what happened or what caused the accident. How long does it take before the black boxes will be analyzed?

Btw: was on my way to open the doors for an arrival this morning in BRU when I saw a Swiss A319 try to land on 25R. Aircraft floated over the runway. Landing was pretty far down 25R, nosewheel touched the ground for a split second, then they decided to do a go around. I bet it scared the hell out of those passengers...

HorsePower
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Post by HorsePower »

Bob_Marcotte wrote:How long does it take before the black boxes will be analyzed?
The FDR/CVR are going to be analyzed in a few days here in France.
Air France jet's black boxes to be sent to France for decoding

Canadian investigators do not have the technology needed to read the black boxes recovered from the wreckage of an Air France jet at Toronto airport, so the flight data recorders will be sent to France, authorities said Thursday.
Regards

Seb.

FlyA310
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Post by FlyA310 »

Depending on the condition of the FDR/CVR it might take weeks, even months before the findings are made public.

Collecting the data is one thing, analyzing the data and re-producing the real accident using the FDR/CVR data, meteo data, runway contamination data, ground radar data and witness statements (including the pilots) is another issue.

However, once more, thank God that there were no fatalities in that crash!

Ovostar
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Post by Ovostar »

"The Plane landed too far down", they just said that as breaking news , on BBC NEWS 24

FlyA310
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Post by FlyA310 »

Ovostar,

There will be many more statements made by journalists during the course of the investigations.
However, I think that we should not go allong with all the gossip.

Only the official statements are of any interest (NTSB, Air France, Airbus, Canadian authorities) and these statements will only be issued after cross-checking the "facts and figures" with the real accident data.

Ovostar
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Post by Ovostar »

Ok, i agree, but it also good to chat or discuss about it...

Sometimes the official statements are hiding things as well (remember Flight 800) so, we should also say our own points of view...

SR89
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Post by SR89 »

Ovostar wrote:"The Plane landed too far down", they just said that as breaking news , on BBC NEWS 24
It didn't.

http://radans.net/jens/planestory.html

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