The Boeing 747-Adv

SR89 · Post by **SR89** » 27 Jul 2005, 04:41

Ovostar wrote: I am sure that airbus found a clever way to put the freight in the 380.

They did.

The A380F will have a much larger main deck cargo door, 4,27m compared to 3,4m for the 744F.

Cheers from Montréal!

Ovostar · Post by **Ovostar** » 27 Jul 2005, 13:13

Ok, so why are the others saying that the 747adv will be better for cargo than the A380F ?

CXRules · Post by **CXRules** » 27 Jul 2005, 15:00

In my opinion, the B747AdvF maybe better than the A380F in several ways:

1. Airlines are familiar with the 747's, but not with the A380's yet
2. A380 could be too big for freighters. Nowadays, seems like the MD-11F's and the new B777F's are more popular, especially for express cargo like FedEX, UPS, and DHL.
3. Prices and economies of the freighters are considerations for sure.

For cargo carriers like Cathay Pacific, Korean Air, Lufthansa, and Singapore Airlines, the freighters are the addition to their cargo operation in their passengers planes (in the belly). Most air cargo are things that are time-constrain shipments, ie. food, flowers, etc. Unless there's such a great demand on certain routes, I'm afraid the A380 is a bit too big for now in my opinion. But in the future, who knows. 747 was a bit too big in the 60's but not any more.

Ovostar · Post by **Ovostar** » 27 Jul 2005, 16:09

you are probably right,and when people want to transport a very big thing they use the An-224 (like when the swiss sailing Team "Alinghi" after winning the america's cup transported their boat from new zealand to switzerland), and things like that don't happen every day. But i think the A380 could do one floor passengers and one floor freight...

And coming back to the 747, i thing they absolutely MUST do the Adv. The 747 is THE perfect plane (for me hehehhe), so noble , with the cockpit on the 2nd floor a masterpiece. I am speaking with my heart and not with economic reasons. I can't imagine this plane getting old and leaving our skies. I really want them to make a new version of it....

SR89 · Post by **SR89** » 27 Jul 2005, 16:53

The 744F ain't better than the A380; they're just targeting a different type of load.

For instance, there was a growth of 430% in high-technology goods shipped from Asia to the U.S. between 1995-2003 and the A380 is by far the best aircraft to carry this type of load considering that it has less tendency to bulk out than other freighters and have a lower cost per ton/mile than the 744F.

On the other hand, if one needs to carry a heavy load of tools, then the 744F will be a better aircraft as the it has a higher ceiling and higher load per sq ft.

Anyway, the A380F has a bright future ahead IMO.

lastrow · Post by **lastrow** » 27 Jul 2005, 16:56

guys, I was guessing that the following has been mentioned already but your discussion makes me wondering if you have forgotten the following:

The A380 is not allowed to land on airport that haven't received a certification for the A380. So, this involves the runway length as well as the width as well as the shape of the curves. Main problem are the outer engines of the A380. I think, currently there may be less than 100 certified airports for the A380?

The Boeing 747 design has the primarily advantage that it can land on more than 1000 airports in the world (or 2000?). That represents a very important point for a freighter and thus the 747-ADv freighter has its sure place along a A380 freighter or any other models (MD-11F, 777F etc).

-lr.

SR89 · Post by **SR89** » 27 Jul 2005, 17:24

lastrow wrote:
The A380 is not allowed to land on airport that haven't received a certification for the A380. So, this involves the runway length as well as the width as well as the shape of the curves. Main problem are the outer engines of the A380. I think, currently there may be less than 100 certified airports for the A380?

Not that I want to be picky on you, but the A380 can receive (and will receive) a derogatory clause to operate in virtually all international airports that have not (yet) received the Code F certification.

The same derogation was given to 747 operators in the early 70's when most airports did not meet the code E standards.

The Code F standards were implemented to ease the A380 ops but the A380 is actually designed to operate under Code E standards anyways so it's no big deal really, especially for cargo ops.

HorsePower · Post by **HorsePower** » 27 Jul 2005, 19:28

Since we are talking about freighter version, I would like to highlight you the fact that LH will probably order some B777-200 LRF instead of B747-Adv F.

My €0.02

Seb.

lastrow · Post by **lastrow** » 27 Jul 2005, 22:58

SR89, I have heard that for the 747 but this special treatment for the A380 this really surprises me. I have read about so many stories that airports are extending, reshaping and rebuilding their runways and taxiways to serve the A380

Look, Cologne Airport has spent about EUR 4.500.000 for extending the Taxiways (the runways have already the required length of 3800m and 60 m width) I would bet that they would have saved the money if they could have waited for this E-certification-A380-thing.

Ovostar · Post by **Ovostar** » 27 Jul 2005, 23:06

Even GVA (Geneve Cointrin Aeroport), an airport which have maybe 2 747s landing a week, whis is not very likly to have 380 landings often, is going to solidify the runway, and the tunnel which is under the runway(the tunnel you take to go from Switzerland to France) and it will cost a lot of money.

SR89 · Post by **SR89** » 27 Jul 2005, 23:56

Hey lasco,

Most airports will have to meet Code F standards at some point just like airports eventually had to meet Code E certifications in the 70's. So, the money to improve runways/taxiways is not spent "for nothing".

In the meantime however, derogations will be granted on a case per case basis, and therefore, the A380 will have the opportunity to operate to airports that haven't ~yet~ done their job.

Ovostar · Post by **Ovostar** » 29 Jul 2005, 17:28

I found this on the cargolux website:
http://www.cargolux.com/press/press-release.htm
and i also found this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747_Advanced

and they are talking a little as if it was sure that this plane is going to be built...

bits44 · Post by **bits44** » 29 Jul 2005, 17:55

bits44 wrote:This week should prove interesting for Boeing fans,

A big 737 order ?

A big 787 order,

747ADV announcement?

Should start on Monday

KT

Well the 737 order has been placed, China announced today the purchase of 50 787's so the 747ADV should be along very shortly

KT

Ovostar · Post by **Ovostar** » 02 Aug 2005, 19:12

So, still no news from boeing about the 747adv?

And if they build it, what will be the name ? 747-500 ?

bits44 · Post by **bits44** » 03 Aug 2005, 03:24

nothing yet, shouldn't be too long though!

KT

CXRules · Post by **CXRules** » 03 Aug 2005, 14:09

I think the B747Adv program will be launched by the end of this year, but I'm looking at September/October time frame.

HorsePower · Post by **HorsePower** » 03 Aug 2005, 18:40

Ovostar wrote:And if they build it, what will be the name ? 747-500 ?

B747-500 sounds logical to me. also, I've heard of a B747-800/-900 possibility...

Seb.

Ovostar · Post by **Ovostar** » 04 Aug 2005, 00:38

i think there is enough of the nuber "8"....
Airbus A380, 787...
Boeing 747-500 would be funny because

Boeing 787 and Airbus A380 there is the number 8

Airbus A350 and Boeing 747-500, there is the number 5

...sorry not my most interesting post

...

Ovostar · Post by **Ovostar** » 05 Aug 2005, 14:03

so Boeing doesn't really seem to be in a hurry.
The A380 already did the 1st flight. What are they waiting for ? I think if they are really going to build that plane, they would have already announce it...

B744skipper · Post by **B744skipper** » 10 Aug 2005, 08:36

Here is an interesting picture that shows the upgrades, the B747-Adv has over the B747-400, very well.

Aviation24.be

The Boeing 747-Adv

Re: Big announcement week for Boeing