4th A330 for SNBA very soon

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 03 Jul 2005, 15:28

In the last newsletter of SNBA nothing mentioned about the new A330 that will joint the fleet this month, even no new destinations.

Post by **sn26567** » 03 Jul 2005, 17:43

Atlantis wrote:In the last newsletter of SNBA nothing mentioned about the new A330 that will joint the fleet this month, even no new destinations.

In the last timetable also no mention of additional destinations or frequencies. It is true that it stops end August.

Flybe · Post by **Flybe** » 03 Jul 2005, 18:17

Hi everyone,

So to clarify a few things, i don't know the purser who gave me the information. I met the guy at a fair about 1 week ago now, don't even know his name. As we were chatting a little bit, he told me about the 4th A330 that was certain according to him. So i asked about the rumour af a 747 combi that was going around for a while. He told me that indeed that the rumour was true, and that they were as good as certain to have 2 747 combi's of Malaysian, but then it didn't went through because of some dark reason. That's what he told me, don't have any more info.

Isn't it strange that like some reply's ago a purser say's that the fourth A330 is certain, but they don't know for what kind of destinations. It's like buying a new a car and you don't know if you gone drive with it.

But you can be sure that if they have a fourth A330, or are actively searching for one, they know where they will fly it. It's not because they haven't officially said anything, that they don't know it.

Greets,

Pieter

HorsePower · Post by **HorsePower** » 03 Jul 2005, 22:29

Flybe wrote:So to clarify a few things, i don't know the purser who gave me the information.

Working "in the industry" doesn't mean necessary to be in-the-know. I don't mean the purser is wrong (neither he is right, too!) but it remember me this little story:

6-7 months ago, I was talking with some AF pilots about the next expected order, the B777-200LR F. They answered me that I was wrong, that it was about B777-300 Fs and not B777-200 Fs. According to them, the B777-200 F was way too small to replace the B747-200 F... Of course, I was better informed than them on this point. Finally, AF ordered 5+3 B777-200LR F.

What I mean is I learn more on Luchtzak and a bunch of other websites than at job...

An other exemple:
I've heard recently an internal rumor saying that finally AF was looking for more B747s (Adv most likely). Reason evocated was that some "head" realized that AF will have too much twin-engined aircrafts when the A340-300s will be retired, and if AF loose the ETOPS approbation, they will be in the s**t. According to this rumor, the 21 A340-300s are going to be replaced by more A330-200s.

2 days after, I had a brieffing (official, this time) where I learned about AF futur fleet plan (till 2010):
- first: the A340-300s are here to stay
- second: no more A330-200s in sight

Regards

Seb.

tolipanebas · Post by **tolipanebas** » 08 Jul 2005, 19:57

OK, it's official now, yesterday Chairman Rob Kuypers informed staff during an information meeting SN Airholding has approved the lease of a fourth Airbus 330, subject to certain financial conditions. This fourth airplane will enable SN to improve the quality of its operations (much crippled during the last months due to a series of technical problems on its small wide body fleet) and to open-up a few new destinations in a later stage.

Support Department are now actively searching for an additional A330 with the lease companies, subject to certain financial conditions set out by SN Airholding. Several initial offers have already been rejected over the high leasing price of the planes on offer. The planned budget for the 4th A330 is not fully unveiled, but what we do know for sure, is that due to the strong demand on the international market, SN expects a lease price for this forth airplane of almost the double of those on their current A330 fleet.

The aim is to get the plane in the fleet by the end of this year/early next year, first as a back-up in replacement of the 3 already flying (which can then get their cabins updated one-by-one) and then by the start of the summer 2006 season help SN open up new destinations in Africa.

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 08 Jul 2005, 20:12

Thanks for the update. Now we have some recent and good information.
I hope that SN could have a lot of succes with this fourth A330 and that they can indeed proceed in their quality.

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 08 Jul 2005, 20:33

Thanks for the update and the good news tolipanebas

nwa757 · Post by **nwa757** » 08 Jul 2005, 23:53

This is great news! It will be great to see an A330 in SNBA's newest livery.

flyexel · Post by **flyexel** » 09 Jul 2005, 13:43

As we were informed by SN's commercial department, Ouagadougou and Cotonou are the most likely new african destination.

Like mentioned before those are planned for the summer of 2006.

First the 3 currently used A330 will be refurbished and repainted.

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 09 Jul 2005, 14:15

@ Flyexel

Do you know when the three current A330 are going to repaint that they are coming in the fully new colors like the A319 and the major part of the Avro's?

Are there plans to serve more then the two you mentioned?

flyexel · Post by **flyexel** » 09 Jul 2005, 15:04

The exact period for the refurbishment is not yet mentioned,the commercial department is still looking for the supplier of the new seats...

Ouagadougou/Cotonou is 89% sure...And I think it will stay with those two for the moment.On this routes SN will compete against Air France-KLM and there african partners.

Another reason for this fourth A330 is back-up,now SN is loosing money when they have technical problems like birdstrikes and maintenance issues.

And if you are interested in rumours....Probably SN will fly the DKR-BJL route on the A319 as from the end of 2005....

Wait and see....

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 09 Jul 2005, 15:17

About the rumour: They did that also between Swiss and France with an Avro, but after some months they stoped because it was not interesting enough, or they loose money in that project.

So, if they want to use an A319 between dkr-bjl they have to station an aircraft overthere, could it be that they have lose some seats for serving Europe or have they a back-up plan for that. But I can imaging that you have no information about that because, like you said, it's still a rumour.

Thanks for the update.

Post by **sn26567** » 09 Jul 2005, 17:58

A fourth (backup) A330 could also be used to serve BRU-SXB on the opening and closing days of the sessions of the European Parliament (to replace the three Avros they sometimes fly simultaneously on that route).

flyexel · Post by **flyexel** » 09 Jul 2005, 23:01

I don't see why they have to put an aircraft in africa for the DKR-BJL route...they'll fly BRU-DKR-BJL-DKR-BRU like they do now.Sometimes the A319 is already flying this route,perfectly possible with reduced pax load.

They will have the capacity because SN is thinking to stop the BRU-CMN route by the end of september due to unbeatable competition of Royal Air Maroc on this route.

LJ · Post by LJ » 09 Jul 2005, 23:11

Another reason for this fourth A330 is back-up,now SN is loosing money when they have technical problems like birdstrikes and maintenance issues.

However, SN will loose even more if the A330 isn't flying (I hope that SN doesn't foresees so many technical that they think an extra A330 will be necessary). Thus I think they'll use the fourth A330 as extensive as the current A330s when the refurbishments are over.

BTW didn't SN serve OUA and COO in "the old days". AF currently has a monopoly on these destinations (like so many West African destinations) and if the prices are right they probably eill be able to fill the new A330

Post by **sn26567** » 11 Jul 2005, 09:49

LJ wrote:BTW didn't SN serve OUA and COO in "the old days"?

Yes, indeed, the real SN was serving those African cities, and many others that are not anymore served by the current SN: BJM, BKO, JNB, LOS, LFW, NIM...

DannyVDB · Post by **DannyVDB** » 13 Jul 2005, 20:39

Just a 'confirmation' on "Kanaal Z" ...

They introduced the news item to say that growth of SNBA in Africa came to an end after 3 years (competition from KLM/AF). Therefore, they have a new African plan that consists of 4 elements:

- Add a 4th A330 to SNBA, starting with the summer season
- New destinations
- Develop codeshare agreements in/for Africa
- New business class with flat beds

In addition they referred to the news in 'De Tijd' that the net result for the first 3 months of the year is 7.7 million EUR!

My questions: what could be new codeshare partners in Africa?

If the net profit they refer to is correct, then this is just amazing: compare to the other airliners and also the fuel cost raised drastically! This should be the weak season …?! Also to take into account: the number of passengers only raised with 0,5%, while turnover raised 10% … What does this mean: more cargo, more income from charters, better revenue on network?

Regards,
Danny

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 13 Jul 2005, 21:30

Some nice results for SN. But is this 7.7 profit only coming from the flight operations ? Because as far as I know they sold and leased back some planes.....

Codeshares within Africa ? Maybe with Ethipoian, but then they have to fly to Ethiopia first.

Chris

website-info · Post by **website-info** » 13 Jul 2005, 21:30

sn26567 wrote:A fourth (backup) A330 could also be used to serve BRU-SXB on the opening and closing days of the sessions of the European Parliament (to replace the three Avros they sometimes fly simultaneously on that route).

and the famous gravy train from Brussels-Luxembourg to Strasbourg

T

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 13 Jul 2005, 21:31

They had a lot more income due to charters and they used their aircraft better. But this don't make it that they have a profit of 7.7 million euro, if you know that they had in the same period last year a loss of more then 5 million euro. You don't have to look only on the operation part. The profit can be made generaly.

What about the codeshare partner. I don't know what African partner it could be, it depent on the new destinations they want to fly.
Don't forget that the last couple of years some African airlines are disappear or some are in bad papers. On the other hand there are some strong players like the new Nigeria, Kenya Airways, Ethiopian Airlines and of course KLM/Air France have a strong band with Africa.

I don't know if Ethiopian Airlines has an codeshare agreement with an other airline. So, it could maybe that airline.