News from London

[SN30952]

As I write this it has just been announced that a bomb has exploded in London, on a bus.

Indeed, very similar to the attack in Madrid: a soft target, full of people, coordinated attacks, at rush hour.
A sleeper cell overlooked by British security, similar to the Hamburg cell lead by Mohammed Atta.

This shows the helpness, powerlessnes of the countries involved in this terrorism.

Because the leaders of these countries make one big mistake: this is NOT a war, because war means there is a winner and a looser in the end.
Here there will not be such thing: same as there is no war against crime or drug. (Don't think you can win that, crime is growing, year by year)

Societies have to learn to live with crime or drug or terrorism, because when the police catches one murderer, one thief or burglar, an other one appears elsewhere.
What we can do is to accommodate to the phenomenon. The problem in the West is, we do not have the leaders to organise that: some country that wants to lead that 'war', itself has the highest rates of crime, drug traffic, and now wants to show the world how it cannot coop with number 3 problem: terrorism.
Bad leaders make bad enemies*.
Meanwhile soft targets, working people on the way to work, or people on the way to hospital, or young people on the way to school get victims of that overlooked problem.

I always wonder what the thousands of help services do when there is no alarm? Filling in red tape?
Instead of waiting things as this to happen, the West should get organised this does not happen, and NOT overlook 'sleepers'.

And sorry if not 'real sleepers' are taken in custody, that is not as bad as innocent victims taken into hospital or cemeteries. I would not choose for 'soft victims' but for soft (long stay) 'potential terrorist holiday camps'

*Better have a good enemy than a bad friend. One can reason a good enemy.

[SN30952]

Bombings Could Have Deep Impact on Airline Industry

[B744skipper]

Because the leaders of these countries make one big mistake: this is NOT a war, because war means there is a winner and a looser in the end. Here there will not be such thing: same as there is no war against crime or drug. (Don't think you can win that, crime is growing, year by year)

In some cities of the United States, the authorities are having a though approach on crime (and the punishment that the criminal get's). So on some cities the crime rate has been dropping since 1994. New York is one city among them, once they where on top of the list of "most criminal cities in the US", but now they aren't anymore. Not sure where they are standing now.

Btw, a "war on terrorism" (although one can call it differently) can be won, even without talking to the terrorists. Two wars that have been one are the war on the IRA, and the one on the German RAF. But I have to say, those groups are hard to compare with the Islamic terrorism, which has a much more loser organisation and is more into making a lot of civilian casualties then targeting political targets.

Instead of waiting things as this to happen, the West should get organised this does not happen, and NOT overlook 'sleepers'.

Sleepers are hard to find, unless you are willing to take every Arab/Muslim men into custody, or to surveillence all of those peoples. And may I repeat, the British government did not "waiting for something to happen", they have succeeded in preventing 4 or 5 more attacks on the London subway, attacks that happened before yesterday.

And sorry if not 'real sleepers' are taken in custody, that is not as bad as innocent victims taken into hospital or cemeteries. I would not choose for 'soft victims' but for soft (long stay) 'potential terrorist holiday camps'

I agree with you, people that are preaching a radical form of Islam (i.e., are spreading hatred against the western world), and people that are lickely to plan an attack*, should be send to such potential holiday camps.
The United States already has one, on Guantanamo Bay.

* Hard to tell what kind of person that should be, but radical people preparing an attack (having blueprints and explosives found with them), should be enough evidence to not let them out of prison again (they won't change their mind in prison, they are lickely to try again).

[Comet]

Railway services returning, but Tube still down. One of the blasts (the Edgware Road one) blew a hole in the tunnel wall and hit a train on the opposite track. There are photos in the papers today, and it is terrible.

The bus exploded outside the headquarters of the BMA (British Medical Association), where doctors were holding a meeting inside. The very rapid response of such a close medical team undoubtedly saved many lives from the bus. The top was blown off and two people died in this attack. Some are saying this was a suicide bombing.

It will be hard to find the culprits though, even analysing CCTV images because so many people would be going through the stations at that time, it said there were 900 people on one train. You really cannot move on those rush hour trains, I have caught them when I have had no option and know exactly how full and crammed they get. And the places where the attacks happened are all places I have used alot on the Underground, I know those lines. The number of times I have cursed the Circle Line for being tedious, or late or whatever. Most casualties were at Kings Cross, which is the terminus for the East Coast main line and many commuter-belt trains.

And to cap it all, we received some junk mail from Amnesty International today That is what I call bad timing. That depraved organisation and their allies the Green Party have long campaigned for terrorists to be released from jail, be given the fredom to move around at will because detaining them violates their "human" rights. Organisations such as those two should be made to take some of the responsibility of what happens when their beloved terrorists wreak havoc in such a way.

[Comet]

Many more people are feared dead in the Kings Cross area of the attack, after it was reported that part of the tunnel had collapsed onto the train after the blast.

Happening on the Piccadilly, this has taken place on one of the deeper lines of the Underground. Some, like the Piccadilly and Northern Lines, are very deep underground (and many were used as shelters during the Blitz because they were so deep) and others are less deep such as the Circle, Hammersmith and City and District, although they are still underground. It said the deepness of the Piccadilly has made this rescue more difficult. I think they were having to take in special equipment to hold up the tunnel whilst they worked on the wreckage.

:censored:

[paps]

"Given the UK's performance on large construction projects in the last 30 years I suspect that the delays experienced in Athens will be nothing compared to what these will be like"


yes chunk, the UK has great experience in big construction projects delivered on time! Like the millennium bridge which was finished in 2002! and the jubilee line extension that was delayed by 3 whole years!



Hopefully you will not be asked to contribute if you live North of Watford!

[Comet]

The death toll has risen above 50, victims in the deep underground train unknown and bus toll may rise.

[MD-11]

My symphaty goes to all the victims and their relatives and to all the people of the UK.
When I saw the news I felt like this :pukey:
How can one do such things to innocent people.
I was in London in 1997 and 1998 and took the underground also.
It makes us all realize how little we are and harmful in this crazy world.

[ryanvsnow]

I would like to see the crimminals behind this blown up when they get caught. After 9/11 I wish to strap all the mastermind into a plane and crash them into the ground, but then I realized... It's not the A/C fault.

[Comet]

Thank you to all who have expressed sympathy and condolence over this atrocity, the British people appreciate your thoughts and support.

Ryanvsnow - I agree with you completely.

More news - the bus death toll has risen. The number of victims near Kings Cross is still unknown.

[Humberside]

"Given the UK's performance on large construction projects in the last 30 years I suspect that the delays experienced in Athens will be nothing compared to what these will be like"

yes chunk, the UK has great experience in big construction projects delivered on time! Like the millennium bridge which was finished in 2002! and the jubilee line extension that was delayed by 3 whole years!

There have been problems in the past but two of the major UK construction projects, the Channel Tunnel Rail Link and Heathrow Terminal 5 are on time at the moment. Im not sure if they are on budget

With regards to the bombs, a terrible event. Condolences to famiies of the dead. At least things are getting back to normal as far as they can at the moment

[Comet]

Thirteen killed in the bus.

The Tubes have been running today, but obviously a reduced service owing to the attacks yesterday. The news footage of a rush hour tube showed a near empty carriage, definitely not the norm. The deep Piccadilly Line is the one which serves Heathrow Airport, and as such it is busy nearly all the time with travellers to Heathrow as well as Londoners.

Two areas where the attacks took place, Edgware Road and Aldgate, have large Muslim populations and residents from both areas have been interviewed on TV expressing their disgust and horror at what has happened.

[Rayman]

.......Instead of waiting things as this to happen, the West should get organised this does not happen, and NOT overlook 'sleepers'......

*Better have a good enemy than a bad friend. One can reason a good enemy.

I second, absolutely.

Although the West is somehow working together, lots have still to be done for narrow and well coordinated, centralized and synchronized actions.

BTW, this was (and still is) one of the main issue in the campaign pro EU Constitution.

Lots of (irresponsible) voters in FR en NL went to the polls only to express their uncomfortable internal sentiment diverging from the asked question.
These 2 referendums should be voided and done again

I wonder the outcome if a referendum should be held now

[A318]

I have to say I am amazed by the calm reaction from the UK citizens.
Not as hysteric in the US (even that was a total different attack) but calm, sad and with one big spirit.......they will never get us under!
That's what I like, together with their prime minister they agree in one thing, it is sad and awful but life goes on and that's exactly what they are doing.
One big respect to the UK citizens and especially to the Londoners!

Erwin

[Comet]

Erwin - the spirit you describe is what kept London going during the Blitz in the second world war. The Londoners did not lie down and surrender to the Nazis and they sure as hell won't surrender to the vile scum who carried out these bombings.

An appeal fund has been set up to help victims and their families. You can donate online here http://www.redcross.org.uk/londonrelief

[Comet]

Being on museum duty today has meant I have not been able to keep up with developments to post them here, until now.

A team of experts from Spain are flying in to London to offer their help and experience gained after the Madrid bombings. There may be similarities which the Spanish experts could pick up on which may help the investigation, or there may be not.

It is confirmed that the bombs on the Tubes detinated all within around 50 seconds from the first to the last one.

Some sick hotel owners have increased their prices as people who had been unable to get home after the attacks and were desperate to book into hotel accommodation.

West End theatre shows were starting again after being axed after the attacks. Shows will be preceded by a minute silence as a mark of respect in memory of the victims.

[bigjulie]

It is very sad news, when this sort of terrorist act comes about.
My deepest sympathy to the victims' familys.
The British resolve(Stiff Upper Lip & All That) make the UK a strong country when they are faced with adversity!
A sad, sad sad day :shakehead: :shakehead: :shakehead: :shakehead: :dammit: :dammit: :dammit: :dammit:

[Comet]

Birmingham city centre was closed off last night after an alert, but it turned out to be a false alarm. That is a problem after an attack like the ones we have just seen, there are also loads of hoax calls made knowing that people are on high alert. The other day a man in Hampshire was jailed for making such a hoax call shortly after the London attacks. For the hassle and panic these individuals cause they should be dealt with very severely.

It is believed that there may be around 20 bodies in the trapped wreckage of the Piccadilly underground train. The blast was so severe that the train is embedded into the walls of the tunnel.

[A318]

I still think the UK had it's share now and they will continue on to the next country. Somebody already said it on television, lightning never strikes two times in one place. Italy and the Netherlands can better prepare for what is coming (if you can prepare for sic idiots like this!).
Now Europe should be united to get those maniacs, keep your eyes open in trains, busses, amusement parks etc.

Erwin

[Comet]

Erwin - as you will know, unattended bags are the worst thing - it was probably unattended baggage which exploded on the trains. It may be that someone got on the busy train at one stop, put his bag in the train doorway (that is more or less where the bags were according to reports) and got off at the next stop, there are very short distances between stations on some of the central sections of the Underground. On the rush hour trains there are just so many people crammed in it can be very difficult to see if anything untoward is happening.

I will be going to Birmingham in 8 weeks, I hope there is nothing like this happening again then. Birmingham was mentioned as a possible next target, along with Manchester. I hope the perpetrators are caught and locked up before they can do this to anyone else.