Australia calls for greater European access for Qantas

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 23 Jun 2005, 14:42

Australia calls for greater European access for Qantas.*
This very hypocritical sentence should be:
Australia calls for greater London access for Qantas
If Qantas applied for BRU, and code shared with any belgian airline, it would upset BA indeed, but QF would have access to all markets it is interested in.
So its hypocritical to call for greater E u r o p e a n access.
If they apply in Prague, the result would be similar to the BRU answer: please come in as much as you want.
But BRU would allow them more 5th!
*Do not misunderstand: these aren't neither Backhawks, nor my words, but Qantas lobby's.

regi · Post by **regi** » 23 Jun 2005, 16:15

And this is the first really good news about Brussels of the last months. Okay, I won't nagg again about language problems. Let us hope that Brussels is on the map of Quantas.
By the way, the distance to Sidney is still too long. Where would they stop? Bangkok, Singapore (doubtful after the latest row) or maybe in the future .. HoChi Minh city (SGN), because Vietnam has a lot of vietnamese in the french speaking countries and also in Australia. Dual hub!, that is it, a new word.

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 23 Jun 2005, 16:45

Everything is open, dear Regi

Compare the possibilities.
Note via CNX or HKG = equidistant.

btw, Regi, when you said: Vietnam has a lot of Vietnamese in the French speaking countries, I can tell you there are more Vietnamese in the German speaking countries and Russia.

earthman · Post by **earthman** » 23 Jun 2005, 17:59

There are lots of Vietnamese people living in Poland. Maybe they can fly through Warsaw?

regi · Post by **regi** » 24 Jun 2005, 00:45

It was just quick thinking, caused by the enforced stop along the way. Yes, Hong Kong sounds nice and prosperous. But we may not forget how vietnamese aviation has its own particular backgrounds such as a large diaspora in Europe and Australia as well. Secondly, Vietnam and Saigon in particular are rapidly expanding the airport facilites. There is even a serious plan to build a brand new large airport near Bien Hoa, about 40 km from HCM, to replace Than Son Nhat airport because that one is now surrounded by the rapidly expanding city and has no more expansion capabilities. The Vietnamese would plan to make this new airport as a real south-east asian hub in direct competition with the new BKK airport, Kuala Lumpur and Singapore. Partly for asian customers, australian routes as well. But much more pinpointed to the USA. The visit this week by the vietnamese prime minister to Washington - almost unbelievable- where new orders were signed for 4 B787's and a military cooperation program (really) are signs that the viets are very serious to chose the USA as their main partner. Not Japan, Korea, Australia, and certainly not China.
But that is all politics, sorry folks.
Anyway, I just raised Vietnam as the fuelstop destination for a possible Brussels- Sydney connection.

Dutchyboi · Post by **Dutchyboi** » 24 Jun 2005, 05:13

Good little topic i can stuck into

, at this stage qantas and the federal government want direct access into destinations via asia. But in saying this qantas has pulled out of many eu routes including rome, athens, paris, manchester and frankfurt. The only eu routes served now is LHR and have bought more slots last year, and are at the limit and can no further get more access, according to an agreement by the UK and Oz governments, this means they can't fly to manchester or gatwick without giving up one of their slots at LHR from what i believe. I think the problem with serving those old routes or even new routes is PAX amounts on routes. It wasn't viable maintaining routes that people weren't traveling on. Part of this problem is that Qantas have really only one type of aircraft that does routes beyond asia, their 747-3/438's and ER's. If they want more routes to eu they need to purchase something they can fill and make a profit on, by buying a family of 777 2/3 ER or LR or maybe a340/5's or 6's. This will be announced later on in the year. Some of you have mentioned that QF should route thru say BRU or another city as an option. This wouldn't be a real option for QF because last thing people from over here want is more than one stop on a already long flight and an idea like this would hurt QF and give asia carriers even more advantage over QF than they have now on eu flights. But i'm sorry to tell most of you at THIS stage you would be more likely to see Belgium win the World Cup next year than QF flying to Brussels or say Poland. In the end its all about demand from Australia and at the other end, no good in having demand from just one end. Thats my say anyway.

Cheers
Todd

flyinglsd · Post by **flyinglsd** » 24 Jun 2005, 06:59

this time maybe to move all passangers for second uk cities ( manchester birmingham, glascow...) to Brussels
qantas can fly SYD - ?- BRU for all UK CITIES EXCEPT London area then passangers connect to their home cities from BRU.

Then that free seat for LOndon area passangrs

BRU becomes in this case the 5 th LONDON airport

NO slots in LHR ; use BRU ( only valid for no london area!)

no connect to lhr !

B744skipper · Post by **B744skipper** » 24 Jun 2005, 10:30

flyinglsd wrote:this time maybe to move all passangers for second uk cities ( manchester birmingham, glascow...) to Brussels
qantas can fly SYD - ?- BRU for all UK CITIES EXCEPT London area then passangers connect to their home cities from BRU.

Problem would be that one needs to stop twice, and needs to change the plane in Brussels. Guess what will happen?
Right, Emirates* (or Asian carriers like SIA) can make that trip with just 1 stop (and change of planes) in Dubai, and BANG, away are your customers.

* Emirates current UK destinations are:
- Birmingham;
- Glasgow;
- Manchester;
- London Heathrow;
- London Gatwick;

So I do not think this would be a good idea, espacially on the competitive point of view. The 2-stop strategy will be blown away by competition (who can offer the same route, but with 1 stop).

flyinglsd · Post by **flyinglsd** » 24 Jun 2005, 12:43

a people livin g in birmingham, liverpool etc must change planes at lhr
then connect at lhr or bru?
the only difference is : easier at bru.

i 'm speaking only for peoples of seconf cities
of course not for londonian!
qantas go directly to lhr for londonian
go to bru for peoples of the rest of uk
freeing seats in planes to lhr for londonian.

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 24 Jun 2005, 13:16

flyinglsd wrote:the only difference is: easier at bru.
qantas go directly to lhr for londonian
go to bru for peoples of the rest of uk
freeing seats in planes to lhr for londonian.

That's exactly what I was saying.
Better transit via BRU.

go to bru for peoples of the rest of uk and Western Europe as well.
the only difference, flyinglsd? There must be more differences.

Dutchyboi · Post by **Dutchyboi** » 24 Jun 2005, 13:19

flyinglsd wrote: i 'm speaking only for peoples of seconf cities
of course not for londonian!
qantas go directly to lhr for londonian
go to bru for peoples of the rest of uk
freeing seats in planes to lhr for londonian.

Its not really any easier from BRU from LHR actually most people would rather prefer LHR over BRU because of the facilities and resources of a bigger airport...and actually being in the UK and having cleared customs and immigration at LHR than relying on a smaller airport. Pax wouldn't like the idea of QF dumping them at an airport outside of the UK to catch another flight into the UK, i can understand your concept but from a buisness point of view QF wouldn't do this because Asian carriers would be the benefit of this happening.

B744skipper · Post by **B744skipper** » 24 Jun 2005, 15:28

flyinglsd wrote:a people livin g in birmingham, liverpool etc must change planes at lhr
then connect at lhr or bru?
the only difference is : easier at bru.

i 'm speaking only for peoples of seconf cities
of course not for londonian!
qantas go directly to lhr for londonian
go to bru for peoples of the rest of uk
freeing seats in planes to lhr for londonian.

I don't think you got my point.

Basically you say, fly from Birmingham to Brussel, change to a Qantas aircraft there, and then fly to Australia with a stopover somewhere in Asia.
This means that there are two stops that one makes, and those cost time.

And then my objection was, that people rather would take Emirates (or an Asian airlines), fly from Birmingham to Dubai, and transferring to another flight* to Australia (non-stop) from Dubai. This means one only makes one stop, and that saves time (maybe 2 to 3 hours).

* Maybe the flight from BHX could even continue from Dubai to Australia, thus eliminating the need to transfer to another aircraft.

So the customer would rather take the convenient and faster way, then flying with 2 stops on the route. So Qantas would lose their customers to other airlines that offer 1 stop routes (of non-London airports).

n5528p · Post by **n5528p** » 27 Jun 2005, 21:12

B744skipper wrote:And then my objection was, that people rather would take Emirates (or an Asian airlines), fly from Birmingham to Dubai, and transferring to another flight* to Australia (non-stop) from Dubai. This means one only makes one stop, and that saves time (maybe 2 to 3 hours).

Generally I share your opinion concernig the number of stops from Europe to Australia. I have relatives in in a suburb of SYD and I have been there three times so far:

1994 on a B767 VIE-BKK-SYD
1999 on a B777 VIE-KUL-SYD

During this time Lauda Air made a trip through SYD and MEL on each flight, so the return in both years was SYD-MEL-BKK/KUL-VIE. From this experience I can confirm that you are definitely not looking for a third stopover, especially if one has to clear customs and so on. /Last time I went downunder in 2003, SYD and MEL were different routes.)

Anyway, I am thinking about visiting my relatives once more this autumn and now I have the choice to take either Austrian as usual or Emirates.

Last week I took a closer look at the schedule of Emirates and found out that they stop in BKK in their way to SYD - which means that my flight would be VIE-DXB-BKK-SYD. Initially I overlooked the stopover and thought they use an A345 or 346, but finally it hit me. Furthermore, I would have to wait in DXB nearly 9h to have the connecting flight, total travel time would be nearly 27hours instead of 17h with OS.

I generally share your point of view, only Emirates is a bad example - for now.

As a matter of fact, my relatives in SYD used to work for Qantas for 30 years and she told me that they are thinking about coming back to FRA, but she keeps telling me that for some years now. I think that the the market is simply not there. People either fly with BA, from Central and Eastern Europe people might use OS and many may even choose carriers like Emirates. That leaves no airport which can fill a 74x without a partner providing feeder flights - and this partner is in the UK.

Regards, Bernhard

B744skipper · Post by **B744skipper** » 28 Jun 2005, 09:45

I seem to have overlooked that Emirates stop also...

But looking at the distance between Dubai (DXB), and Sydney Kingsford Smith (SYD) is 12039 km.

Emirates their aircraft range (of the aircraft that can make it non-stop):
- 4 x B777-200ER: 14,316km;
- 1 x B777-300ER: 13,427km;
- 8 x A340-500: 15,742km;

Does anyone knows if Emirates will operate the DXB-SYD route non-stop when they have sufficient aircraft that can make it? I thought that they where getting more B777-300ER's to cover for that route non-stop.

chunk · Post by **chunk** » 28 Jun 2005, 10:39

As far as I know Emirates already go non-stop to Sydney - not sure if it is every day though. I also think they go direct to Perth from DXB and possibly Melbourne? I know the Brisbane flight still has a stop in Singapore. The other Australian destinations also have one stop services but I am sure there are direct flights.

n5528p · Post by **n5528p** » 28 Jun 2005, 14:29

chunk wrote:As far as I know Emirates already go non-stop to Sydney - not sure if it is every day though. I also think they go direct to Perth from DXB and possibly Melbourne? I know the Brisbane flight still has a stop in Singapore. The other Australian destinations also have one stop services but I am sure there are direct flights.

I can't find one. Although they offer DXB-MEL-AKL-SYD

and DXB-AKL-SYD

. Return flights are always vie BKK.

Regards, Bernhard

chunk · Post by **chunk** » 28 Jun 2005, 16:17

If you go to www.emirates.com and go the flight schedules tab you will find the following:

Once a day DXB - Brisbane with a 773 via SIN

Once a day DXB - Sydney with a A345 Non Stop
Once a day DXB - Sydney with a 773 via Bangkok

Once a day DXB - MEL with a A345 Non Stop

Once a day DXB - PER with a A343 Non Stop

The flights do exist but they seem to do one or two through SIN and the rest therough BKK if they are not N?S. Some of the East coast flights go on to NZ also.

n5528p · Post by **n5528p** » 28 Jun 2005, 23:30

chunk wrote:If you go to www.emirates.com and go the flight schedules tab you will find the following:
Once a day DXB - Sydney with a A345 Non Stop

For some reason I can't find it - perhaps the connection coming from VIE is still worse than the 9 hours. I will try it without departing from VIE - a stopover of 10 hours would be nice - spend a day at the beach club and then go on.

Thanks, Bernhard

chunk · Post by **chunk** » 29 Jun 2005, 10:04

Yep - that'll work. I jsut put in DXB - wherever in OZ they go to and out the direct flights came! It must be the Vienna flight gets in at a bad connecting time or something for those flights.

n5528p · Post by **n5528p** » 29 Jun 2005, 13:15

chunk wrote: It must be the Vienna flight gets in at a bad connecting time or something for those flights.

And even in the offer I got, I had to stay in DXb for nearly 9 hours, which would be nice during the day, to get to the beach - but from midnight until some time on the morning?

Nightlife in DXB is not that interesting

Regards, Bernhard

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Australia calls for greater European access for Qantas

Australia calls for greater European access for Qantas

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