Brussels Airlines in 2021

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Lux_avi
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Joined: 09 Apr 2021, 18:09

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by Lux_avi »

convair wrote: 08 Aug 2021, 12:58 But if the situation is that bad and management has been repeatedly warned about it, the last resort is to go on strike, maybe for some selected flights as a starter/last warning.
A strike in such an environment would be plain stupid. I hope they realize that.

convair
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Joined: 18 Nov 2011, 00:02

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by convair »

Lux_avi wrote: 08 Aug 2021, 18:53
convair wrote: 08 Aug 2021, 12:58 But if the situation is that bad and management has been repeatedly warned about it, the last resort is to go on strike, maybe for some selected flights as a starter/last warning.
A strike in such an environment would be plain stupid. I hope they realize that.
I couldn't agree more. I was just reacting to the "harass-the-passengers" tactics.

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by Conti764 »

convair wrote: 08 Aug 2021, 23:28
Lux_avi wrote: 08 Aug 2021, 18:53
convair wrote: 08 Aug 2021, 12:58 But if the situation is that bad and management has been repeatedly warned about it, the last resort is to go on strike, maybe for some selected flights as a starter/last warning.
A strike in such an environment would be plain stupid. I hope they realize that.
I couldn't agree more. I was just reacting to the "harass-the-passengers" tactics.
Seeing who posted it... No surprise there :roll:

crew1990
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by crew1990 »

sn26567 wrote: 11 Aug 2021, 23:09 Here it is in full livery (the A330neo):
Wrong topic

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by sn26567 »

I must have been tired :)

It's back where it should be.
André
ex Sabena #26567

brusselsairlinesfan
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by brusselsairlinesfan »

crew1990 wrote: 11 Aug 2021, 23:26
sn26567 wrote: 11 Aug 2021, 23:09 Here it is in full livery (the A330neo):
Wrong topic
Hopefully some of these birds for SN also ;-)

oldblueeyes
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by oldblueeyes »

What for? LH does not intend as of today to buy this model and around 2030 when the big replacement wave for the 333 is aimed the 339 might be obsolete.

brusselsairlinesfan
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by brusselsairlinesfan »

oldblueeyes wrote: 14 Aug 2021, 13:23 What for? LH does not intend as of today to buy this model and around 2030 when the big replacement wave for the 333 is aimed the 339 might be obsolete.
Indeed... do you think about the A350 to replace thé A330 CEO in the future ?

oldblueeyes
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by oldblueeyes »

This would depend a lot on how the industry will look like in 10 years and how the brand and the product will be structured.

As of today, BRU is used by the group as a Western Africa focused minihub. Maybe 2030 this won't make a lot of sense, eg if TAP would be acquired by LH.
Narrow body P2P to the East coast in the US does not work now - but in 5-6 years the A321XLR will be in the market and such a choice might be a best fit for both local demand unservd now as well as for repositioning some African routes in terms of frequency or cost per seat, if belly cargo does not play a crucial role.
Last but not least, it depends on new segments the company might want to operate, eg leisure long haul.

The 359 is one step ahead of the 333 in terms of size, but could be the one fits all option eg if the African markets develop faster than other routes. If not, why not choosing the 789? Both models might be in a decade mature enough to provide to the market cost convenient halt life airplanes.

Top priority for now is to re-adjust the short haul with the right approach to make profits - the upgauging from AVROs to 319 didn't went very well and now the direction seems to go towards a unified 320 fleet - same like for Austrian, whilst there they would keep the regional Embraer fleet.

convair
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by convair »

oldblueeyes wrote: 14 Aug 2021, 23:36 This would depend a lot on how the industry will look like in 10 years and how the brand and the product will be structured.

As of today, BRU is used by the group as a Western Africa focused minihub. Maybe 2030 this won't make a lot of sense, eg if TAP would be acquired by LH.
Narrow body P2P to the East coast in the US does not work now - but in 5-6 years the A321XLR will be in the market and such a choice might be a best fit for both local demand unservd now as well as for repositioning some African routes in terms of frequency or cost per seat, if belly cargo does not play a crucial role.
Last but not least, it depends on new segments the company might want to operate, eg leisure long haul.

The 359 is one step ahead of the 333 in terms of size, but could be the one fits all option eg if the African markets develop faster than other routes. If not, why not choosing the 789? Both models might be in a decade mature enough to provide to the market cost convenient halt life airplanes.

Top priority for now is to re-adjust the short haul with the right approach to make profits - the upgauging from AVROs to 319 didn't went very well and now the direction seems to go towards a unified 320 fleet - same like for Austrian, whilst there they would keep the regional Embraer fleet.
A fleet of regional jets like Embraer is obviously more justified in a country like Austria that has several domestic airports.

oldblueeyes
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by oldblueeyes »

This is coming rather from the past.

The legacy wannabe positioning of Austrian Airlines was "Focus East" - in the early 2000s they had over 100 planes, flying every small city in Eastern Europe and the Balkans. The bad thing is that the model wasn't flying, so ultimately they ended up with 2 bn accumulated losses and the state sold the airline to LH.
Meanwhile many transfer pax from these regional airports have been rerouted within the group via MUC.

And as we are talking about regional airports, Austrian closed its province bases, partially the connectivity is rerouted via trains or connected to the larger hubs, depending on the P2P pax demand.

The key point is simplicity - on short haul they took the Q400 and A319 out of the fleet and are following a E95 and A320 fleet strtegy.

The interesting question mark is how would SN have been looking like with an all A223 fleet on short haul? Asa rule of thumb the cost per seat mile in the A223 is similar to the A320NEO, but the aircraft is more versatile for smaller markets. And LH allocated initially 30 options of the C-Series to a possible Brussels fleet renewal, but the local leadership those days (before take over) decided to move on ex Easyjet A319.

convair
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by convair »

oldblueeyes wrote: 15 Aug 2021, 08:17 This is coming rather from the past.

The legacy wannabe positioning of Austrian Airlines was "Focus East" - in the early 2000s they had over 100 planes, flying every small city in Eastern Europe and the Balkans. The bad thing is that the model wasn't flying, so ultimately they ended up with 2 bn accumulated losses and the state sold the airline to LH.
Meanwhile many transfer pax from these regional airports have been rerouted within the group via MUC.

And as we are talking about regional airports, Austrian closed its province bases, partially the connectivity is rerouted via trains or connected to the larger hubs, depending on the P2P pax demand.

The key point is simplicity - on short haul they took the Q400 and A319 out of the fleet and are following a E95 and A320 fleet strtegy.

The interesting question mark is how would SN have been looking like with an all A223 fleet on short haul? Asa rule of thumb the cost per seat mile in the A223 is similar to the A320NEO, but the aircraft is more versatile for smaller markets. And LH allocated initially 30 options of the C-Series to a possible Brussels fleet renewal, but the local leadership those days (before take over) decided to move on ex Easyjet A319.
Thanks for the nice explanation.

brusselsairlinesfan
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by brusselsairlinesfan »

convair wrote: 15 Aug 2021, 12:41
oldblueeyes wrote: 15 Aug 2021, 08:17 This is coming rather from the past.

The legacy wannabe positioning of Austrian Airlines was "Focus East" - in the early 2000s they had over 100 planes, flying every small city in Eastern Europe and the Balkans. The bad thing is that the model wasn't flying, so ultimately they ended up with 2 bn accumulated losses and the state sold the airline to LH.
Meanwhile many transfer pax from these regional airports have been rerouted within the group via MUC.

And as we are talking about regional airports, Austrian closed its province bases, partially the connectivity is rerouted via trains or connected to the larger hubs, depending on the P2P pax demand.

The key point is simplicity - on short haul they took the Q400 and A319 out of the fleet and are following a E95 and A320 fleet strtegy.

The interesting question mark is how would SN have been looking like with an all A223 fleet on short haul? Asa rule of thumb the cost per seat mile in the A223 is similar to the A320NEO, but the aircraft is more versatile for smaller markets. And LH allocated initially 30 options of the C-Series to a possible Brussels fleet renewal, but the local leadership those days (before take over) decided to move on ex Easyjet A319.
Thanks for the nice explanation.
Indeed,thank you very much for elaborating like this !
They did officially communicate regarding the A320 NEO but what about the thinner routes. Will SN have kinda regional fleet ?!

oldblueeyes
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by oldblueeyes »

I am not an insider, thus have no clue. And management decisions often change, especially in volatile times.

As of today, i think this is not an option, for various reasons.

- all airlines are still loosing money and got debts, thus focus in the coming years will be profitability vs engaging in every niche
- Brussels is not a real hub, thus regional aircraft would have to earn the money by P2P pax - in a low yield environment where leisure and family and friends travel is covered by Ryanair with 2/7 frequencies and in a new reality where business pax willing to pay 500 EUR return tickets are missing, there is no much economic need for such routes
- from a social politics prospective any decision towards such a direction would be problematic - you let your people go and come after few months with wetleases - not the smartest way of acting

From what i see is that the positioning of the company is converging towards a 320only fleet on medium term (in terms of economics as new 320NEOs are being delivered the 319CEO is simply not an option anymore) and the brand is positioned somehow as a value for money brand ( in fct the same as Eurowings) - acting from a large airport and not from the middle of nowhere, with good frecquencies and an overall well positioned product, but not aiming for the cheapest end of the tail client.

But looking forward in 3-4 years from now nobody knows if there won't be again any wetleases to LCY or new niches to be served.

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b.lufthansa
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by b.lufthansa »

Unions yesterday issued a strike notice (warning?) for cabin crew, starting 26th August. No agreement was reached during the negotiations.

Bracebrace
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by Bracebrace »

The aim is not right or wrong here, I don't work for Brussels Airlines but after reading through all these messages some thoughts did pop in my mind. Take them for what they are worth.

The reality out there is that the world of leisure has stopped and needs to be "re-booted". There is only one word how ie freight airlines managed to continue: flexibility. A lot. A gigantic lot. The world out there is a world where hotels have stopped, restaurants stopped, taxi companies stopped,... pretty much everything an airline needs when the doors are closed stopped functioning. After some European influence freight airline crew went from "unknown" to "hero" (Europe...), and eventually when freight airlines were "known to operate", some stability was regained and hotels were organised to accomodate crews specifically.

But vaccinations and D-variant changed everything again. These days the mentality is changing and I know hotels where you are even considered at the edge of an "intruder". As airline crew you are exempted from testing in many countries, yet there are hotels who don't care and they will require you to be tested before you step one foot in their doors. So we continue to adapt on the spot, even though it's "out of the normal" again. We have the habit now, we know we have Woltz/Uber eats/...... and phone numbers to get food when there is no roomservice or we can't go in restaurants.

So I can imagine for a full crew this can be pretty interesting when they "wake up" after having spent all these months at home and now back in chaos business. You think airlines know about this when they "dispatch" the flight? No, they don't. I've done a passenger flight through Schiphol (positioning airline crew) and was impressed by the KLM system, yet arriving at the destination it didn't really help a thing. I was on my own because even locals didn't know the regulations. So you lose time again, you discuss, you adapt,...

Everyday changes in every country are frequently "discovered" on the spot, and usually the discovery is done by the crew. Is it possible for airlines to foresee every change? No. They cannot even guarantee at what conditions you will have a room outstation or not. Every airline is "hussling". British Airways is asking crews to do ultra long haul at the border of what I would call extreme fatigue (been there, done that, never again).

So this "reboot" is going to happen with a lot of hickups. I don't think it's advantagous for anyone if we stick to old habits. But on the other hand, management should keep ears open and good communication and flexibility from both sides should be priority. So I'm honestly really curious why negociations stopped and a strike notice was issued.

domtom
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by domtom »

b.lufthansa wrote: 20 Aug 2021, 09:52 Unions yesterday issued a strike notice (warning?) for cabin crew, starting 26th August. No agreement was reached during the negotiations.
hi there,

I understand there's talk about Brussels airlines cabin crew striking in the coming days. How reliable is that information? I've got a flight booked next Saturday 28 August, and it would be pretty anonying if it got delayed or worse... cancelled

Thanks for any information you can provide

Dom

Deejay
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Joined: 06 Feb 2018, 09:20

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by Deejay »

Did somebody take notice to the fact that you now have to pay to change your seat also at check-in online ?

Until now, if you wanted a specific seat at booking, you had to pay for certain "special seats", but now ALL the seats are only accessible at an extra charge.

is this acceptable for a "network airline" ? to me it seems SN is turning "low cost" even more,

what a bad marketing move: seating is the most important aspect for business travelers to be able to exit the plane quickly.... and those travellers will not get this "upgrade" reimbursed by their company (mostly) ....

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by sn26567 »

Deejay wrote: 26 Aug 2021, 17:33 Did somebody take notice of the fact that you now have to pay to change your seat also at check-in online?
As I always want a window seat, I take care to book it in advance against payment, when buying my ticket. And then, a last-minute change is free (except if you want a seat with more legroom e.g.)
André
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cathay belgium
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by cathay belgium »

Hi,

What's next,splitting up families ?
Luckily there are more and cheaper options nowadays ;)
What's the price anyway ?
Diffent fares forneach row ?

Can you change after check in, if you had a look at thé LF 🤔😁

CXB
New types flown 2021 .. //

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