Brussels Airlines in 2021

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crew1990
Posts: 1216
Joined: 29 Dec 2010, 21:46

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by crew1990 »

Darjeeling wrote: 31 Jul 2021, 21:48
crew1990 wrote: 31 Jul 2021, 14:02 If earning around 2700-3000€ a month is being a "slave" I guess we do not have the same definition.

Indeed we do have some crewing issues caused mainly with the vaccination as we have 3 days "off" after each dose and it makes some last minut trouble. Do you think we are the only one? Ryanair had a lot of problem with pilots because they forgot their vacation, are them "amateur" too? I don't think so. Does a mistake makes people "unprofessionnal" I don't think neither but of course I guess that you are perfect and you never make any mistakes...

I do
- C'mon ;) you know like me that 2700-3000€ is full long-haul pay "all-in" (rounded up) with overnights premiums, flight hours, on a peak period with 5-6 long hauls a month for a senior cabin crew, something that doesn't exist anymore nowadays. And what's left of this "netto" for the retirement scheme when all the "premies" are diluated ? :?: Moreover, I don't question the sustainibilty of this from a human health point of view (95+ hours FT/DT in block hours).
Indeed this high salary is due to all ther perdiem, still this is what is in your account at the end of each month, and for CCM, Purser earn more than that..

In July and Augustus, we fly much more than in other month but even in peak summer I never flew 95h.

What is the problem for any company to propose to people in off days to come to work if it's on a voluntary base? This is called a "good will" and do you know how much we earn to do that?

crew1990
Posts: 1216
Joined: 29 Dec 2010, 21:46

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by crew1990 »

Darjeeling wrote: 31 Jul 2021, 22:11
crew1990 wrote: 31 Jul 2021, 21:44
Yep indeed that true, a document had to be sent to the hotels and it haven't been done. When cabin crew landed there were no booking indeed, but as hotel are not full at the moment the only problem was some extra stress at arrival but don't worry the crew got rooms in the hotel. However instead of informing the company of the fact they there were some issue with the hotels, the crew informed the social media, Brussels Airlines being the last informed about it... But once informed, SN sent the right documents to the hotel and this problem is solved.

For the meals, It has always be the case CCM got breakfast only at the hotel and for every Day ON they got a meal allowance, it has always been like that so I don't understand your point...

You confuse yourself (and fool yourself) with your explanations, you do worse than good...
Let your D.O (if any is left in the organigram) react himself, it will be better off. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Am I the one confused? For your information regarding EASA regulation, CCM can fly a maximum of 900h a year, so make your calculation and you'll realise that what you say about flying 95h per month is a pure non sense :lol: :lol: :lol:

Lux_avi
Posts: 65
Joined: 09 Apr 2021, 18:09

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by Lux_avi »

crew1990 wrote: 31 Jul 2021, 21:44

Indeed they still didn't got the point that the glorious time aviation is now over. If they can't stand with it maybe they can do another job. Well actually, many did and came back... :roll:
Not everywhere.
In Belgium, for sure.

But you can't blame them for their "fight" against poor conditions.
I wouldn't be happy to see my kids working under unstable freelance conditions for a pay to fly low-cost carrier.

Glad for you if you're happy with that.

Just a small edit to add something; I don't work for SN so I don't know how it's like right now. I'm just saying you've to be careful with the near future regarding social & work conditions. And when you think it can't get worse, well, you'll see it can.

crew1990
Posts: 1216
Joined: 29 Dec 2010, 21:46

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by crew1990 »

Lux_avi wrote: 01 Aug 2021, 09:56
crew1990 wrote: 31 Jul 2021, 21:44

Indeed they still didn't got the point that the glorious time aviation is now over. If they can't stand with it maybe they can do another job. Well actually, many did and came back... :roll:
Not everywhere.
In Belgium, for sure.

But you can't blame them for their "fight" against poor conditions.
I wouldn't be happy to see my kids working under unstable freelance conditions for a pay to fly low-cost carrier.

Glad for you if you're happy with that.

Just a small edit to add something; I don't work for SN so I don't know how it's like right now. I'm just saying you've to be careful with the near future regarding social & work conditions. And when you think it can't get worse, well, you'll see it can.
Condition are not the same than Sabena times indeed but do you think Air France/Lufthansa etc still have the same working condition than 20 years ago?

But talking about unstable free-lance condition, you are totally wrong, don't mixe up with TUI. We work under "vast contract/CDI". For what you call "pay-to-fly" it's a pilots program to have some flying hours, and there is not this type of system at Brussels Airlines.

People don't fight against "poor" working condition, they fight not to see then worsering. Go to charter ailines, TUI, BA mixed fleet to see what's "bad" working condition

Oh and last thing, it's funny how people in this forum talk about a "strike's notice" while even the unions are not aware of it. But of course you know better.

Lux_avi
Posts: 65
Joined: 09 Apr 2021, 18:09

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by Lux_avi »

crew1990 wrote: 01 Aug 2021, 10:55

Condition are not the same than Sabena times indeed but do you think Air France/Lufthansa etc still have the same working condition than 20 years ago?
For pilots, yes. And sadly they managed to keep their conditions by doing what we all dislike.
For cabin crew, no.
crew1990 wrote: 01 Aug 2021, 10:55 But talking about unstable free-lance condition, you are totally wrong, don't mixe up with TUI. We work under "vast contract/CDI". For what you call "pay-to-fly" it's a pilots program to have some flying hours, and there is not this type of system at Brussels Airlines.

People don't fight against "poor" working condition, they fight not to see then worsering. Go to charter ailines, TUI, BA mixed fleet to see what's "bad" working condition
I know. Thanks a lot. That's exactly why I added this to my previous post; it could come faster than you think. Look at Eurowings.

SR20
Posts: 565
Joined: 17 Apr 2017, 09:14

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by SR20 »

This Monday, the cabin crew of Brussels Airlines (Lufthansa) are distributing this at Brussels Airport. In short: "No strike, but more canceled flights and fatigue due to senseless reforms"
FB_IMG_1627888727850.jpg

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lumumba
Posts: 1851
Joined: 04 Sep 2003, 00:00
Location: brussels Europe

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by lumumba »

crew1990 wrote: 01 Aug 2021, 10:55
Lux_avi wrote: 01 Aug 2021, 09:56
crew1990 wrote: 31 Jul 2021, 21:44

Indeed they still didn't got the point that the glorious time aviation is now over. If they can't stand with it maybe they can do another job. Well actually, many did and came back... :roll:
Not everywhere.
In Belgium, for sure.

But you can't blame them for their "fight" against poor conditions.
I wouldn't be happy to see my kids working under unstable freelance conditions for a pay to fly low-cost carrier.

Glad for you if you're happy with that.

Just a small edit to add something; I don't work for SN so I don't know how it's like right now. I'm just saying you've to be careful with the near future regarding social & work conditions. And when you think it can't get worse, well, you'll see it can.
Condition are not the same than Sabena times indeed but do you think Air France/Lufthansa etc still have the same working condition than 20 years ago?

But talking about unstable free-lance condition, you are totally wrong, don't mixe up with TUI. We work under "vast contract/CDI". For what you call "pay-to-fly" it's a pilots program to have some flying hours, and there is not this type of system at Brussels Airlines.

People don't fight against "poor" working condition, they fight not to see then worsering. Go to charter ailines, TUI, BA mixed fleet to see what's "bad" working condition

Oh and last thing, it's funny how people in this forum talk about a "strike's notice" while even the unions are not aware of it. But of course you know better.
Looks what you said is wrong!!!!
Or selfish.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Darjeeling
Posts: 266
Joined: 29 Dec 2006, 10:13

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by Darjeeling »

lumumba wrote: 03 Aug 2021, 12:47
crew1990 wrote: 01 Aug 2021, 10:55
Lux_avi wrote: 01 Aug 2021, 09:56

Not everywhere.
In Belgium, for sure.

But you can't blame them for their "fight" against poor conditions.
I wouldn't be happy to see my kids working under unstable freelance conditions for a pay to fly low-cost carrier.

Glad for you if you're happy with that.

Just a small edit to add something; I don't work for SN so I don't know how it's like right now. I'm just saying you've to be careful with the near future regarding social & work conditions. And when you think it can't get worse, well, you'll see it can.
Condition are not the same than Sabena times indeed but do you think Air France/Lufthansa etc still have the same working condition than 20 years ago?

But talking about unstable free-lance condition, you are totally wrong, don't mixe up with TUI. We work under "vast contract/CDI". For what you call "pay-to-fly" it's a pilots program to have some flying hours, and there is not this type of system at Brussels Airlines.

People don't fight against "poor" working condition, they fight not to see then worsering. Go to charter ailines, TUI, BA mixed fleet to see what's "bad" working condition

Oh and last thing, it's funny how people in this forum talk about a "strike's notice" while even the unions are not aware of it. But of course you know better.
Looks what you said is wrong!!!!
Or selfish.
Of course it's wrong, just read the paper in today's La Libre Belgique, this guy is a total disgrace to his colleagues. Most probably a troll from SN's cabin crew department who has been promised an ice cream for his "goodwill".
It looks like the audit department or at least monitoring department of the Ministry of Labour is going to have a look a SN's practices. And it's about time, since SN has benefited from many BeGov means (300+M € loan, facilitated unemployment scheme...)
SN is playing with the human limits, because (bad) times are on its side, but it won't last for long. All the frontline staff is exhausted and demotivated the hate towards the management is at its peak.
The bull**** about vaccines and red-zones is pure headlong flight propaganda from SN's external communication (W.L).

I wish the staff to keep his head down and fight.

crew1990
Posts: 1216
Joined: 29 Dec 2010, 21:46

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by crew1990 »

Could you please tell me what I said wrong?

For info at this moment there is still no "strike notice" even unions said there was no plan to strike.

Unions are complaining about "crazy rotation" blablabla... I don't denie that we work harder than before but for people who works in aviation, you perfectly know that everything related to flight time / duty time is regulated by EASA. If union feel like our duty are too heavy, than this is to EASA that they need to complain. EASA need to reduce those FT/DT for every airlines.

Having flown for 4 other airlines before, I can tell you that we are very far from being to the limit... Just ask TUI colleagues... But well believe what you prefere believe that's your right :roll:

Lux_avi
Posts: 65
Joined: 09 Apr 2021, 18:09

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by Lux_avi »

Yep. I'm afraid crew1990 is right; those who have experience elsewhere do not complain at all.

EDIT; that doesn't mean this should be the new standard... IMHO. Just saying.

sean1982
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by sean1982 »

crew1990 wrote: 01 Aug 2021, 10:55
Lux_avi wrote: 01 Aug 2021, 09:56
crew1990 wrote: 31 Jul 2021, 21:44

Indeed they still didn't got the point that the glorious time aviation is now over. If they can't stand with it maybe they can do another job. Well actually, many did and came back... :roll:
Not everywhere.
In Belgium, for sure.

But you can't blame them for their "fight" against poor conditions.
I wouldn't be happy to see my kids working under unstable freelance conditions for a pay to fly low-cost carrier.

Glad for you if you're happy with that.

Just a small edit to add something; I don't work for SN so I don't know how it's like right now. I'm just saying you've to be careful with the near future regarding social & work conditions. And when you think it can't get worse, well, you'll see it can.
Condition are not the same than Sabena times indeed but do you think Air France/Lufthansa etc still have the same working condition than 20 years ago?

But talking about unstable free-lance condition, you are totally wrong, don't mixe up with TUI. We work under "vast contract/CDI". For what you call "pay-to-fly" it's a pilots program to have some flying hours, and there is not this type of system at Brussels Airlines.

People don't fight against "poor" working condition, they fight not to see then worsering. Go to charter ailines, TUI, BA mixed fleet to see what's "bad" working condition

Oh and last thing, it's funny how people in this forum talk about a "strike's notice" while even the unions are not aware of it. But of course you know better.
There was/is absolutely nothing wrong with BA mixed fleet :) stable conditions, good rosters, good pension scheme, nice company bonus and destinations all over the world with a modern and well maintained fleet …. Couldn’t compare it with SN for 10.000 miles.

FYI mixed fleet doesn’t exist anymore and has now merged with the legacy fleets, they are now just under the Heathrow crew umbrella with the legacy union having control of the working conditions

Darjeeling
Posts: 266
Joined: 29 Dec 2006, 10:13

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by Darjeeling »

Lux_avi wrote: 03 Aug 2021, 15:10 Yep. I'm afraid crew1990 is right; those who have experience elsewhere do not complain at all.

EDIT; that doesn't mean this should be the new standard... IMHO. Just saying.
Strange then, because ex-TUI and ex-TCB crews are the spearheads of this current offensive. FT/DT is hard at TUI, but TUI has always been a leisure carrier. They know how to spread the work's load correctly and fairly when it comes to distributing duties like Canary Islands, Morocco and TLV flights... They deal with the same operations for a long time, and don't forget their long-haul network is much easier to fly than SN's.
SN is now mixing two very different networks (the "regular" and the leisure ones) and they simply don't do it the right way (obviously). The mess begun much before Covid, the mess begun when SN took over TCB's operations and became an hybrid carrier.

By the way, there aren't a lot of ex-FR cabin staff at SN, simply because most of them don't speak flemish (most of CRL/BRU based cabin staff isn't Belgian) ;)

Passenger
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Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by Passenger »

Financial newspaper De Tijd this morning: "...De coronacrisis blijft wegen op de cijfers van Brussels Airlines, dat in het eerste halfjaar een verlies van 143 miljoen euro leed en zich niet wil uitspreken over de rest van het jaar..." Covid-19 still hurts Brussels Airlines. The airline reports a loss of € 143M for Jan-June 2021.

Mainstream newspaper Het Laatste Nieuws this evening: "...De vakbonden bij luchtvaartmaatschappij Brussels Airlines hebben hun achterban ingelicht over de voorstellen die de directie dinsdag deed om de werkdruk voor het cabinepersoneel te verlichten. In aanloop naar de vergadering met de directie volgende maandag, roepen de christelijke, socialistische en liberale vakbond op tot stiptheidsacties..." The trade unions at Brussels Airlines have informed their members about the proposals from management to ease the workload for the cabin crew. Management and trade unions meet on Monday, and to prepare that meeting, the three trade unions asked their members to do a harass-the-passengers-strike.

Poiu
Posts: 890
Joined: 14 Nov 2015, 09:38

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by Poiu »

Passenger wrote: 05 Aug 2021, 20:23 Financial newspaper De Tijd this morning: "...De coronacrisis blijft wegen op de cijfers van Brussels Airlines, dat in het eerste halfjaar een verlies van 143 miljoen euro leed en zich niet wil uitspreken over de rest van het jaar..." Covid-19 still hurts Brussels Airlines. The airline reports a loss of € 143M for Jan-June 2021.

Mainstream newspaper Het Laatste Nieuws this evening: "...De vakbonden bij luchtvaartmaatschappij Brussels Airlines hebben hun achterban ingelicht over de voorstellen die de directie dinsdag deed om de werkdruk voor het cabinepersoneel te verlichten. In aanloop naar de vergadering met de directie volgende maandag, roepen de christelijke, socialistische en liberale vakbond op tot stiptheidsacties..." The trade unions at Brussels Airlines have informed their members about the proposals from management to ease the workload for the cabin crew. Management and trade unions meet on Monday, and to prepare that meeting, the three trade unions asked their members to do a harass-the-passengers-strike.
A good example of how bad management pushes great employees towards toxic behaviours which could be destructive for a company.

convair
Posts: 1851
Joined: 18 Nov 2011, 00:02

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by convair »

"Harass-the-passengers-strike"! Is that what they think will solve their problems? They should be ashamed! There would be NO excuse for such behavior, whatever their dispute is with their management!
The clever thing to do would be to try and bring passengers on their side.

flightlover
Posts: 685
Joined: 12 Aug 2008, 08:26

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by flightlover »

convair wrote: 06 Aug 2021, 01:01 "Harass-the-passengers-strike"! Is that what they think will solve their problems? They should be ashamed! There would be NO excuse for such behavior, whatever their dispute is with their management!
The clever thing to do would be to try and bring passengers on their side.
How can they do that? serving them in an excellent way so they think Brussels airlines is the best? informing the passengers by a leaflet about their griefs and have them forget it the moment they throw out the paper waste?
There is just no way of letting customers know how you feel and let them support you in the long run. They just want to be served and get to their destination, as fast and cheap as possible.
It is just the harsh reality of transport these days. People complain about any disturbance in their agenda but will not get that they are part of the problem themselves.

Luke777
Posts: 56
Joined: 13 Mar 2017, 21:02

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by Luke777 »

Our olympic champion Nina Derwael returned thuesday from FRU to BRU with SN and she announced in a TV interview that she enjoyed the flight from within the cockpit (seat) (partially?) In my opinion and due to Covid regulations all cockpit visits during flight for non crew-members are strictly prohibited ? Or do these regulations not count for VIP persons ??

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KriVa
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by KriVa »

Whilst I assume most people following the forum have a basic understanding of all official languages used within Belgium, just to make sure:
"harass-the-passangers-action" is not a correct translation of "stiptheidsactie", the correct translation would be "work-to-rule action", which sheds another light on the subject. The aim of the cabin crew is NOT to harass the passengers, but to show management that a company like an airline doesn't work without flexibility from both sides. Of course, the majority of their job is in direct contact with passengers, which makes it rather unavoidable, though unfortunate, that passengers most likely will be affected in some ways.
Thomas

convair
Posts: 1851
Joined: 18 Nov 2011, 00:02

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by convair »

flightlover wrote: 06 Aug 2021, 03:11
convair wrote: 06 Aug 2021, 01:01 "Harass-the-passengers-strike"! Is that what they think will solve their problems? They should be ashamed! There would be NO excuse for such behavior, whatever their dispute is with their management!
The clever thing to do would be to try and bring passengers on their side.
It is just the harsh reality of transport these days. People complain about any disturbance in their agenda but will not get that they are part of the problem themselves.
If passengers are part of the problem, let's fly empty planes! :roll:

convair
Posts: 1851
Joined: 18 Nov 2011, 00:02

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2021

Post by convair »

KriVa wrote: 06 Aug 2021, 16:11 Whilst I assume most people following the forum have a basic understanding of all official languages used within Belgium, just to make sure:
"harass-the-passangers-action" is not a correct translation of "stiptheidsactie", the correct translation would be "work-to-rule action", which sheds another light on the subject. The aim of the cabin crew is NOT to harass the passengers, but to show management that a company like an airline doesn't work without flexibility from both sides. Of course, the majority of their job is in direct contact with passengers, which makes it rather unavoidable, though unfortunate, that passengers most likely will be affected in some ways.
That's already a bit more reasonable. But if the situation is that bad and management has been repeatedly warned about it, the last resort is to go on strike, maybe for some selected flights as a starter/last warning.

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