Ryanair cancels 2,100 flights in Sep-Oct 2017, and 18,000 more in Nov 2017-Mar 2018

Join this forum to discuss the latest news that happened in the world of commercial aviation.

Moderator: Latest news team

Post Reply

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 38301
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by sn26567 »

Ryanair did not respond to the pilots, who are thus going to start a "white strike", i.e. working strictly to the rules.

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/ryana ... rspective/
André
ex Sabena #26567

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 38301
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by sn26567 »

A week after Ryanair began the mass cancellation of flights because of a pilot shortage, the airline has finally confirmed it will pay for passengers' flights on other airlines if necessary.

European passengers’ rights rules insist an airline that cancels a flight should offer passengers “re-routing under comparable transport conditions to their final destination at the earliest opportunity” — even if that means paying for a flight on a rival carrier.

And it may come out cheaper for Ryanair than to pay for hotel rooms and meals!
André
ex Sabena #26567

Inquirer
Posts: 2088
Joined: 14 Feb 2012, 14:30

Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by Inquirer »

On the vrt news site, there's an interview with a Belgian ryanair pilot giving an insight in the daily practices of the airline he works for (can't call him his employer, since he's self employed): zero hour contracts, a chaotic head office in Ireland unable to solve major network wide operational issues, crews going out understaffed and having to solve the situation themselves...

https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2017/09/22 ... dkwartier/

Other news sites are all running similar behind the scenes stories, as pilots at many bases seem to have had it with the way they are made to work. Some are even mentioning part of the flight preparation is done outside of the working hours to make the flight schedule work out?!

Is all of this even legal?
And if not, why has the oversight been failing for so long?
How effectively can an Irish administration supervise an airline predominantly based outside of its jurisdiction?

teddybAIR
Posts: 1613
Joined: 02 Mar 2004, 00:00
Location: Steenokkerzeel
Contact:

Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by teddybAIR »

Inquirer wrote: 22 Sep 2017, 22:29 How effectively can an Irish administration supervise an airline predominantly based outside of its jurisdiction?
Excellent question.

sean1982
Posts: 3273
Joined: 18 Mar 2003, 00:00
Contact:

Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by sean1982 »

teddybAIR wrote: 23 Sep 2017, 10:11
Inquirer wrote: 22 Sep 2017, 22:29 How effectively can an Irish administration supervise an airline predominantly based outside of its jurisdiction?
Excellent question.
Ever heard of external audits? In europe any aviation authority can conduct inspections on behalf of another one. Secondly inquirer, how can you go understaffed when Ryanair has always operated with minimum crew anyway. 3rd, all pilots are assigned a 45 min preflight briefing opportunity, that’s a legal requirement

Passenger
Posts: 6987
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by Passenger »

sean1982 wrote: 23 Sep 2017, 12:04 Secondly inquirer, how can you go understaffed when Ryanair has always operated with minimum crew anyway.
To read the article (VRT) may help to understand why:
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2017/09/22 ... dkwartier/
"...Daarnet heb ik nog een crew (bemanning) gezien zonder piloot. Maar ze kunnen het hoofdkwartier in Dublin gewoon niet meer bereiken. Ook die centrale diensten in Dublin zijn onderbemand. Er zijn gevallen bekend van piloten die gestrand zijn ergens in het buitenland. Ze willen weten wat ze nu moeten doen, waar ze naartoe moeten. Maar er komt geen antwoord van Dublin. Ryanair is heel snel gegroeid, maar de centrale diensten zijn niet meegegroeid. Het gevolg is dus chaos."

In brief: I just saw a crew without a pilot, but they couldn't get in touch with Head Office because they are also understaffed there...

sean1982
Posts: 3273
Joined: 18 Mar 2003, 00:00
Contact:

Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by sean1982 »

Passenger wrote: 23 Sep 2017, 13:00
sean1982 wrote: 23 Sep 2017, 12:04 Secondly inquirer, how can you go understaffed when Ryanair has always operated with minimum crew anyway.
To read the article (VRT) may help to understand why:
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2017/09/22 ... dkwartier/
"...Daarnet heb ik nog een crew (bemanning) gezien zonder piloot. Maar ze kunnen het hoofdkwartier in Dublin gewoon niet meer bereiken. Ook die centrale diensten in Dublin zijn onderbemand. Er zijn gevallen bekend van piloten die gestrand zijn ergens in het buitenland. Ze willen weten wat ze nu moeten doen, waar ze naartoe moeten. Maar er komt geen antwoord van Dublin. Ryanair is heel snel gegroeid, maar de centrale diensten zijn niet meegegroeid. Het gevolg is dus chaos."

In brief: I just saw a crew without a pilot, but they couldn't get in touch with Head Office because they are also understaffed there...
As Ryanair only does “there and back” flights, with no overnights, you can’t be stranded abroad. When you leave with 2 pilots from base, you get back with 2 ....

Passenger
Posts: 6987
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by Passenger »

sean1982 wrote: 23 Sep 2017, 13:13 As Ryanair only does “there and back” flights, with no overnights, you can’t be stranded abroad. When you leave with 2 pilots from base, you get back with 2 ....
Unless one pilot becomes ill. Unless one pilot reports unfit to fly. Unless one pilot doesn't show up in the morning for whatever reason.

sean1982
Posts: 3273
Joined: 18 Mar 2003, 00:00
Contact:

Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by sean1982 »

Passenger wrote: 23 Sep 2017, 13:22
sean1982 wrote: 23 Sep 2017, 13:13 As Ryanair only does “there and back” flights, with no overnights, you can’t be stranded abroad. When you leave with 2 pilots from base, you get back with 2 ....
Unless one pilot becomes ill. Unless one pilot reports unfit to fly. Unless one pilot doesn't show up in the morning for whatever reason.
That would mean you would still be in base, like I said, no overnights at FR. In that case you go back home, you’re not “stranded abroad” :roll:

Klausenburg
Posts: 39
Joined: 27 Sep 2016, 22:14

Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by Klausenburg »

sean1982 wrote: 23 Sep 2017, 13:13
As Ryanair only does “there and back” flights, with no overnights, you can’t be stranded abroad.
Meanwhile at Ryanair:
Meanwhile, the fatigue of flying for Ryanair is quite real. When I was there, I was regularly sent out of my base to fly on my days off, and without pay – to distant Ryanair bases that had a staffing shortage. I would take connecting flights and sometimes overnight layovers to arrive (hotel paid by me, and not reimbursed). Once there, I would report for duty, fly a heavy flight schedule for five consecutive days, then face the arduous journey back to my home base. If it was summer, I’d usually have only three days back at home before embarking on another such trip. It was a soul-destroying experience.

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -long-haul

sean1982
Posts: 3273
Joined: 18 Mar 2003, 00:00
Contact:

Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by sean1982 »

Klausenburg wrote: 23 Sep 2017, 13:57
sean1982 wrote: 23 Sep 2017, 13:13
As Ryanair only does “there and back” flights, with no overnights, you can’t be stranded abroad.
Meanwhile at Ryanair:
Meanwhile, the fatigue of flying for Ryanair is quite real. When I was there, I was regularly sent out of my base to fly on my days off, and without pay – to distant Ryanair bases that had a staffing shortage. I would take connecting flights and sometimes overnight layovers to arrive (hotel paid by me, and not reimbursed). Once there, I would report for duty, fly a heavy flight schedule for five consecutive days, then face the arduous journey back to my home base. If it was summer, I’d usually have only three days back at home before embarking on another such trip. It was a soul-destroying experience.

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -long-haul
I worked there for 13,5 years, and know it inside out. What this guy is talking about it pilots who do not have a nominated base (or floaters). This is optional, it’s a choice. They get more money for it and a better schedule as in 5 on-5 off instead of 5on-3off. Their choice, so not really a right to complain :) Pilots who DO have a home base and (again volunteer to) work out of base get a hefty payment for it and it’s limited to a few times a year contractually ... again, their own choice.

Passenger
Posts: 6987
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by Passenger »

Inquirer wrote: 22 Sep 2017, 22:29 ... ... why has the oversight been failing for so long? How effectively can an Irish administration supervise an airline predominantly based outside of its jurisdiction?
The Irish Aviation Authority will not / will never act against Ryanair. They support them. Remember the three Ryanair fuel emergencies Madrid/Valencia a few years ago? At the same moment that the Spanish CAA stated that they have opened an investigation file to find out what happened, O'Leary gave a press conference where he showed a document from the Irish IAA, in which the IAA said that the emergency calls were correct (*). Amazing, bizar, strange: an official board helping an airline with a huge PR problem.

Also now, the IAA keeps quiet about this Ryanair saga. The British CAA is not: on 19th September, they have ordered Ryanair to rebook stranded passsengers on other carriers.

CAA Ireland: silence
https://www.iaa.ie/news

CAA UK: "...we have written to the airline to clarify their legal obligations and seek assurances on how and when they will provide alternative flights with other airlines..."
http://www.caa.co.uk/News/CAA-seeks-ass ... protected/

(*) it's too off topic here, but tolipanebas explained us that it was a fake statement: the issue was not the call itself, but the fuel quantity they took on departure.

DIBO
Posts: 593
Joined: 28 Mar 2009, 14:54

Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by DIBO »

sean1982 wrote: 23 Sep 2017, 14:29This is optional, it’s a choice. .... Their choice, so not really a right to complain .... again, their own choice
Not about flightcrew, but nonetheless Ryanair cabin crew told to move to Europe for six weeks at their own expense or go without pay.

sean1982
Posts: 3273
Joined: 18 Mar 2003, 00:00
Contact:

Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by sean1982 »

DIBO wrote: 23 Sep 2017, 21:56
sean1982 wrote: 23 Sep 2017, 14:29This is optional, it’s a choice. .... Their choice, so not really a right to complain .... again, their own choice
Not about flightcrew, but nonetheless Ryanair cabin crew told to move to Europe for six weeks at their own expense or go without pay.
Every cabin crew contract has a clause where the company can assign up to 3 months of unpaid leave during winter for bases where there are significant reductions in aircraft, during this time the crew member can do another temporary job or claim economic unemployment benefits, much like belgian airlines do as well every winter. I would NEVER accept a relocation at own expense. At a certain point they will become desperate enough to pay the expenses for you, that's just how business is done in Ireland and the UK.

sean1982
Posts: 3273
Joined: 18 Mar 2003, 00:00
Contact:

Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by sean1982 »

I agree Ansett, M’oL should be made to leave and so should Eddie Wilson, the chief “people” officer (or whatever he is called these days). He is the mastermind behind a lot of todays FR policies and one of the most unpleasant people I have ever laid eyes on. I still stand behind FR as a company, my colleagues were hardworking top notch professionals with only one thing on their mind and that is safety, the training departement is top notch and the best i’ve seen from any airline I worked for or experienced close by through partner or friends and Because of the opportunities I got and the career I made I was paid and treated well, however there is a reason why I left and much of it is what is on show today.

I do hope for lots of Friends and colleagues that FR comes out stronger with a new boss and a new code of ethics for their employees!

teddybAIR
Posts: 1613
Joined: 02 Mar 2004, 00:00
Location: Steenokkerzeel
Contact:

Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by teddybAIR »

This is just a classic example of "what goes around, comes around". MoL's way of doing business is based on bargaining power. For most of Ryanair's history they have worked themselves in a superior negotiating position with all the stakeholders they do business with. Be it pilot's in desperate need of a job in the cockpit or regional airports for which they were often the sole large account. Thanks to the economic revival and growth in the overall aviation sector, the alternatives for pilots are increasing and Ryanair is experiencing first hand what the difference is between employee loyalty and lock-in: loyal employees stay when another alternative crosses their path while locked in employees will leave your company.

His reaction is quite predictable. My 2 cents is that he will train a large contingency of young desperate pilots in order to restore the excess of pilots and consequently his negotiation position towards flight crew.

User avatar
luchtzak
Posts: 11542
Joined: 18 Sep 2002, 00:00
Location: Hofstade, Zemst - Belgium
Contact:

Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by luchtzak »

British Civil Aviation Authority CEO Andrew Haines commented on the delays and cancellations affecting Ryanair passengers.

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/ryana ... -airlines/

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 38301
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by sn26567 »

Ryanair announces the end of rostering cancellations by slowing growth this winter, but behind the rhetoric, the announcement means new cancellations: 25 planes idled, which probably means some 100 cancelled flights a day from November to March.

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/ryana ... 17-mar-18/

To be sure, Michael O'Leary again apologises and promises refunds, rebookings, EU261 compensations and even vouchers for €40/80 in additional compensation for cancellations of one-way/return flights. Nevertheless, this is another dent in the credibility of Ryanair.

In all honesty, none of the new cancellations affects Belgian airports.
André
ex Sabena #26567

User avatar
cathay belgium
Posts: 2298
Joined: 18 Aug 2008, 00:17
Location: Lommel-Belgium
Contact:

Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by cathay belgium »

sn26567 wrote: 27 Sep 2017, 16:25 In all honesty, none of the new cancellations affects Belgian airports.
Ahum... that's why my flight SXF-BRU FR166 on saturday in december is cancelled !!!!
email received today !


CXB


Dear Customer,

We are writing to inform you that your flight with Ryanair has been cancelled. We sincerely apologise for the inconvenience.


Flight Num: 166 Dept Date: 0XDec2017


Please see below the 2 options available to you

1. Rebook your Cancelled Flight Free of Charge

You can transfer online (free of charge) to the next alternative Ryanair flight to the same destination airport (subject to seat availability). If you require other rerouting options to/from different departure or destination airports or via another airport served by Ryanair please contact Reservations , click to chat with one of our advisors (subject to opening hours) or go to the airport ticket desk.

Click Here To Rebook

Important: Once you transfer your flight to a new date you will need to check in online again and reprint a new boarding pass. If you are transferring to a new flight on the same or following day and cannot re-print your boarding pass it will be re-issued free of charge at the airport ticket desk.

2. Apply for a Refund Online

If you wish to cancel your reservation and claim a full refund of the unused flight(s) click on the link below and enter your booking details. Refunds will be processed in 7 working days back to the form of payment that was used to pay for the original booking.

Click Here To Refund


As you have been notified of this cancellation 14 days (or more) in advance of the scheduled departure date, you are not entitled to monetary compensation under EU Regulation 261/2004 We again sincerely apologise for the inconvenience caused by this flight cancellation.

Yours sincerely,

Ryanair Customer Services.
Last edited by cathay belgium on 27 Sep 2017, 17:01, edited 1 time in total.
New types flown 2021 .. //

Post Reply