booked a flight, not sure if I will arrive back home

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brabel
Posts: 181
Joined: 17 Jun 2015, 10:51

booked a flight, not sure if I will arrive back home

Post by brabel »

So, me and some colleagues had the idea of going to Jordan from 31 Oct to 6 Nov 2021.
We checked skyscanner and found an affordable price on KIWI.com.
We would fly ryanair directly from Brussels to Amman and on the way back ryanair from Amman to Bologna and then a small layover to go Bologna to Charleroi.

Originally, the flight back was scheduled to leave at 12.00 from Amman, Arriving 4h later in Bologna and the other flight from Bologna to Charleroi was scheduled to leave at 21.00.

Unfortunately, the hours of the flight Amman to Bologna changed schedule: departure: 20.30, arrival: 23.35.

Kiwi notified us from this change. Unfortunately, with this new schedule, we would not make the flight from Bologna to Charleroi, because it would have left 2h before we would arrive at Bologna airport.
Kiwi says it's not up to them to 'bring us home'. They send us other alternatives (all rerouting to Bologna to catch the flight there).
Almost all of them would take more than 23h. One of them was: Amman - Warsaw - Kiev - Bologna - Charleroi...........

I told them we have to arrive home to Charleroi (or somewhere in Belgium at least), but they say it's not up to them, cos they didn't change it, but the airline did.

So my question is: Do they have to make sure that we arrive to our final destination? I mean, that's why I buy a ticket to Belgium... To arrive here and not to be stuck in another country. Or is what they do fully legal?

Passenger
Posts: 7085
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: booked a flight, not sure if I will arrive back home

Post by Passenger »

brabel wrote: 16 Oct 2021, 11:17 So, me and some colleagues had the idea of going to Jordan from 31 Oct to 6 Nov 2021.
We checked skyscanner and found an affordable price on KIWI.com.
We would fly ryanair directly from Brussels to Amman and on the way back ryanair from Amman to Bologna and then a small layover to go Bologna to Charleroi. Originally, the flight back was scheduled to leave at 12.00 from Amman, Arriving 4h later in Bologna and the other flight from Bologna to Charleroi was scheduled to leave at 21.00. Unfortunately, the hours of the flight Amman to Bologna changed schedule: departure: 20.30, arrival: 23.35.

Kiwi notified us from this change. Unfortunately, with this new schedule, we would not make the flight from Bologna to Charleroi, because it would have left 2h before we would arrive at Bologna airport. Kiwi says it's not up to them to 'bring us home'. They send us other alternatives (all rerouting to Bologna to catch the flight there). Almost all of them would take more than 23h. One of them was: Amman - Warsaw - Kiev - Bologna - Charleroi........... I told them we have to arrive home to Charleroi (or somewhere in Belgium at least), but they say it's not up to them, cos they didn't change it, but the airline did.

So my question is: Do they have to make sure that we arrive to our final destination? I mean, that's why I buy a ticket to Belgium... To arrive here and not to be stuck in another country. Or is what they do fully legal?
It is illegal. For inbound/outbound flights with an EU-carrier, European legislation applies. So they do have to make sure you get home. But if they fail to do so conveniently, you have the right to cancel with a full refund.

A departure time that is amended from 12h00 to 20h30 is not "a schedule change": when it's more then 4 hours, it is a cancellation from the 12h00 flight, followed by an automatic rebooking onto a new flight at 20h30. That is the basic principle you have to stick with: it's a flight change, not a rebooking,

European legislation 261/2004 applies. Cancellation of flights are described in Article 5. That Article 5 refers to the Articles 7, 8 and/or 9. Article 7 (right on indemnity) doesn't apply, as the cancellation is done prior then 2 weeks. But Article 8 and Article 9 do apply. And those articles give you the right to choose between the acceptance of the proposed new flight, or a cancellation with full refund. It seems Kiwi and/or Ryanair give you only the right to choose between two new routings. They had to tell you that you also had the right to choose for none of them, leading to a cancellation with full refund.

Other solution: they offer you an overnight b/b in a hotel (*** or more) very close to Bologna airport.

Given the recent court cases between Ryanair and Kiwi, both will refuse to take responsablity. I suggest you advise them, very firm, that you have noticed the cancellation of the initial booking, but that you cannot accept their proposals. And you therefore choose to cancel, leading to a full refund, as stated in Article 8.1 from European Rule 261/2004.

Give them a clear deadline: example three working days. And end your mail with a polite warning towards Kiwi: they have accepted your money. If the refuse to refund you, they leave you no other choice then to ask your credt card company for a chargeback because of a cancellation, as stated by EU 261/2004.

EU Rule 261/2004:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content ... 61&from=NL

- - -

There seems to be a new 'company policy' within Ryanair: I saw a few press stories that passengers who had succcessfully obtained a chargeback, were put on kind of a black list. They are allowed to take the outbound flight, but shortly before the return flight, Ryanair asks them a refund of the previous chargeback request, "or otherwise we'll cancel the flight". If they would do this to me, I would tell them ...you failed to protest the chargeback, so it was valid indeed. If you now cancel my return flight, that will lead to a new chargeback for illegal cancellation, and a new firm claim for the rerouting and the indemnity...

Luckily you don't have to go to court for these matters. The European Union has established NEB - National Enforcement Bodies - for such claims. See:
https://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes/passengers/neb_en
and
https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites/de ... bodies.pdf

Poiu
Posts: 890
Joined: 14 Nov 2015, 09:38

Re: booked a flight, not sure if I will arrive back home

Post by Poiu »

Did you buy the trip as one ticket or separate ones?
I don’t see FR offering tickets from AMM to CRL, it looks like you bought two separate tickets hence why they only have to reroute/refund the AMM-BLQ leg.

brabel
Posts: 181
Joined: 17 Jun 2015, 10:51

Re: booked a flight, not sure if I will arrive back home

Post by brabel »

Thank you for your answers.
I booked it as 1 booking on kiwi.com. As a return trip brussels - amman and amman - charleroi with a transfer in Bologna.
The transfer was 'kiwi guaranteed', because the airlibe (ryanair) doesn't offer the transfer.
But apparantly, the kiwi guarantee is only when you would be stuck at the airport (so they say).
After I booked it, they sent me 3 different booking numbers (one for each flight) on 1 e-ticket.

Lux_avi
Posts: 65
Joined: 09 Apr 2021, 18:09

Re: booked a flight, not sure if I will arrive back home

Post by Lux_avi »

brabel wrote: 16 Oct 2021, 18:37 Thank you for your answers.
I booked it as 1 booking on kiwi.com. As a return trip brussels - amman and amman - charleroi with a transfer in Bologna.
The transfer was 'kiwi guaranteed', because the airlibe (ryanair) doesn't offer the transfer.
But apparantly, the kiwi guarantee is only when you would be stuck at the airport (so they say).
After I booked it, they sent me 3 different booking numbers (one for each flight) on 1 e-ticket.
I'm no expert on consumer rights (and I don't publish things I don't know), but booking through such platforms with such airlines is definitely a terrible idea. Fine when it works out, good luck when anything happens. That includes before, during, and after your trip.

jerry
Posts: 34
Joined: 03 Jul 2014, 18:34

Re: booked a flight, not sure if I will arrive back home

Post by jerry »

I think you might have an issue. What kiwi.com did in these cases is that they booked for you 2 separate Ryanair flights (AMM-BLQ and BLQ-CRL), like you would do, meaning that practically there is no responsibility of the airline to carry you to your final destination. What kiwi.com does in these cases is that they charge you a little bit extra than the separate tickets (i guess their profit) and then they have this skewed guarantee. Have you read these conditions?
"We'll either book you an alternative itinerary to your destination or offer you a refund. The exact rules will depend on how much time you have until departure when the disruption happens.

If it's more than 48 hours before your trip, you can choose one of these options:
* An alternative itinerary up to the amount you paid for your trip – if it's more expensive, you'd need to pay the difference.
* A full refund in Kiwi.com Credit – you can immediately use the credit for a new booking with us.
* An assisted refund with the carriers – we'll cancel the whole trip and request a monetary refund from the carriers for you. The refund will depend on their policy. Some carriers might not provide any refund or only offer credit or vouchers."

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sn26567
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Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
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Re: booked a flight, not sure if I will arrive back home

Post by sn26567 »

I had also problems with kiwi.com when two legs of a three-flight trip were cancelled at the beginning of the pandemic. For one flight I got a voucher that I cannot use because I will not fly to the hub served by that airline anymore. For another flight, I got a cheque to be cashed in a German bank. And for the third flight, I didn't get anything because it was operated normally even though I could not reach the departure airport. Altogether I got zip, nada!

My conclusion? Kiwi.com never again!
André
ex Sabena #26567

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