Disappearing Threads!

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concordino
Posts: 645
Joined: 06 Oct 2003, 00:00

Disappearing Threads!

Post by concordino »

Whilst I am used to thread hijack this must be the first time my thread has been kidnapped.

I was looking to see if there were replies to my post regarding Brussels Airlines turn-around times and there it was - GONE!!

Is Luchtzak being moderated from inside Brussels AL HQ?

Censorship is alive and well on the web even though we all believe in freedom of speech - right?

C

SN30952
Posts: 7128
Joined: 31 Jul 2003, 00:00

Re: Disappearing Threads!

Post by SN30952 »

concordino wrote:Disappearing Threads!
Whilst I am used to thread hijack this must be the first time my thread has been kidnapped. - GONE!!

Is Luchtzak being moderated from inside Brussels AL HQ?

Censorship is alive and well on the web even though we all believe in freedom of speech - right?C
What are you worrying about, concordino?
A thread gone?
I can tell you stories about belgian airlines GONE.
And the same people worked inside and outside to get them GONE! 8)

EBBR
Posts: 60
Joined: 19 Aug 2004, 00:00

Post by EBBR »

You should feel sorry for the webmaster of this website, I know what's going on and thrust on me: it ain't pretty!

website-info
Posts: 750
Joined: 26 Sep 2003, 00:00

Post by website-info »

EBBR wrote:You should feel sorry for the webmaster of this website, I know what's going on and thrust on me: it ain't pretty!
EBBR,

I hope you are not suggesting what I think you are that the management of SNBA/VEX are picking on the webmaster here just because of some discussions that effect passengers. I think passengers have a right to know how this shambles is being run and how it may affect their travel plans. Come on management dont make this guy a scapegoat, spend your time sorting out the real problems. So maybe the original thread provoked TV interest, big deal you got publicity out of it and I'm sure with a decent PR department you cn turn this into something GREAT

T

airazurxtror
Posts: 3769
Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 00:00

Post by airazurxtror »

Being so to speak an outsider, it's difficult for me to figure what is going on here.
Correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it, somebody (concordino) has posted a message here - that message displeased SNBA, and as a consequence, it has been censored and removed ?

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sn26567
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Post by sn26567 »

My nickname reveals my origins, but I have now a complete freedom of speech. This is not the case for some members of the Luchtzak web team, who have a close relationship with the airline industry in Belgium.

Therefore, we are sometimes compelled to take difficult decisions about some posts that above-mentioned Belgian airline industry does not like.

This happens very seldom, because we try to keep this at a minimum. Only obvious cases of non-compliance with the forum rules are removed, but at times we had also to remove posts that could have negatively impact the business of some members of the Belgian airline industry in order to avoid the risk of being accused of libel.

I hope that our readers understand our situation. We apologise for any bad feelings that this can cause among our long-time readers and can assure them that we do everything to minimise the number of occurences of such events.
Last edited by sn26567 on 23 Mar 2007, 16:45, edited 1 time in total.
André
ex Sabena #26567

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Zenfookpower
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Joined: 25 Sep 2005, 00:00
Location: The Great Lakes (USA)

Post by Zenfookpower »

sn26567 wrote:..........................
Therefore, we are sometimes compelled to take difficult decisions about some posts that above-mentioned Belgian airline industry does not like.

................ but at times we had also to remove posts that could have negatively impact the business of some members of the Belgian airline industry in iorder to avoid the risk of being accused of libel................
Is this Belgian censorship or freedom of expression..
If this is a fact then you should amend your forum rules...

23. We will remove posts that could have a negative impact to the Belgian Airline industry.

Are you guys serious...

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ElcoB
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Location: West-Flanders(Belgium)

Post by ElcoB »

sn26567 wrote:My nickname reveals my origins, but I have now a complete freedom of speech.
...
I hope that our readers understand our situation....
I understand that sometimes there might be legal issues (blunt accusation, defamation...) to remove stuff.

I understand the forum-rules, and I'm aware of the difficulties to apply them in a way to keep this forum working in an attractive way.

But now, I'm a bit confused : are you saying there is censorship in the interest of business? or the interest of some peoples business?
Ifso, then you have to say so.
Now we have no idea anymore how much the site is censored, wich is provoking uneasy feelings.

B737229
Posts: 1173
Joined: 22 Jun 2003, 00:00

Post by B737229 »

I thought we were living in a democratic country, with freedom of speech , and thoughts.

One knows if starting a forum it will have positive reactions , but also negative. Why take out the negative reactions, or are there no problems in Belgian aviation?

Maybe we could ban the positive news the competitors also, because this could also influence the point of view of belgian aviation.

Anyway i will not write any more on luchtzak forum, better fora are available to my opinion!

MAYDAY MAY B737229 is going down...

craaaaaash

RIP B737229

website-info
Posts: 750
Joined: 26 Sep 2003, 00:00

Post by website-info »

Hey B737229,

I am of the same opinion about posting, whats the point of a forum if you only can have a one-sided discussion. May as well go talk to a brick wall (or sn management !)

I'm off byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

T

B737229
Posts: 1173
Joined: 22 Jun 2003, 00:00

Post by B737229 »

website-info wrote:Hey B737229,

I am of the same opinion about posting, whats the point of a forum if you only can have a one-sided discussion. May as well go talk to a brick wall (or sn management !)

I'm off byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

T
Thx for sharing my opinion

@admin : please delete my ID

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Airbus330lover
Posts: 883
Joined: 21 Jul 2005, 00:00
Location: Rixensart

Post by Airbus330lover »

B737229 wrote:
website-info wrote:Hey B737229,

I am of the same opinion about posting, whats the point of a forum if you only can have a one-sided discussion. May as well go talk to a brick wall (or sn management !)

I'm off byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

T
Thx for sharing my opinion

@admin : please delete my ID
Perso... You reaction is excessive and ... not very constructive

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sn26567
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Post by sn26567 »

It seems that some readers have not clearly understood my previous post in this topic. We do allow open discussions, even when they criticise Belgian aviation (I will not name any particular company). Criticism can be very constructive.

We did however remove a few posts (in very limited number, I can assure you) when they were presenting inaccurate facts and could have resulted in a difficult, if not impossible, professional situation for some of our web team.

We are volunteers who work for free because we like aviation. We are not going to endanger our future by allowing false rumours or defamation in this forum. This is not censorship, but good common sense. The thread on 'Troubles at Brussels Airlines' show enough that we have an open mind.
André
ex Sabena #26567

SN30952
Posts: 7128
Joined: 31 Jul 2003, 00:00

Post by SN30952 »

sn26567 wrote: {posts were removed} when they were presenting inaccurate facts and could have resulted in a difficult, if not impossible, professional situation for some of our web team.
I see two things here:
-inaccurate facts.
Inaccuracies, I can accept.
Because we are (wo)men enough to correct them
Inaccurate as in 'slander', I cannot accept.

And such posts can better not be written, or just made illegible*. (As in some famous CIA documents: in this example we know who wrote it)

-causing people personal difficulties
It cannot be the aim of the posting members to abuse the forum to harm or cause trouble to other members, a fortiori to web team members.
That unruly and destructive behaviour is called hooliganism.

Category C we cannot not accept in these lines.

*so we know who is the slanderer, and cordon him/her off.

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Avro
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Post by Avro »

It cannot be the aim of the posting members to abuse the forum to harm or cause trouble to other members, a fortiori to web team members.
Fons,

I don't think that the aim of some members was to harm other people.. They just said what they wanted to tell the community.

However, as André correctly pointed out:
sn26567 wrote:
We are volunteers who work for free because we like aviation. We are not going to endanger our future by allowing false rumours or defamation in this forum. This is not censorship, but good common sense.
Chris

SN30952
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Joined: 31 Jul 2003, 00:00

Post by SN30952 »

Avro wrote: Fons,

I don't think that the aim of some members was to harm other people.. They just said what they wanted to tell the community.

Chris
Indeed it cannot be such aim. OR (as I wrote) cause trouble to other members.
Now, more than one year, I ventilated a personal opinion in these lines.
It was nothing about people in particular.
But it seemed that some readers disliked that freedom of speech.
The result was that my mailbox got spammed inordinately and violently.
What I see now, is that when I post news, it gets listed in 30th, 40th 50th position.
What I mean is that, indeed some people want(ed) to harm, because the spam wasn't harmless, but Category C.

btw, football hooliganisn knows 3 categories:
* Category A: Peaceful, bona fide supporters
* Category B: Possible risk of disorder, especially alcohol related violence
* Category C: Violent supporters or organisers of violence

cq I can coop with A's and B's.
And I hope: KATA TON DAIMONA EAYTOY, that I did not create my own demons...

jan_olieslagers
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Post by jan_olieslagers »

As I understand it, only three kinds of message will be allowed on here:

-) childish remarks, such as which c/s looks good on what plane or airline XYZ should really buy plane 123 cauz I think it's so cute
-) any comments about non-Belgian airlines, including serious and/or critical ones
-) non-harmful comments on Belgian airlines

Tower, please confirm intentions?

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Avro
Posts: 8856
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Location: Belgium

Post by Avro »

jan_olieslagers wrote: Tower, please confirm intentions?
Negative sir !!!

This discussion is a good example of a discussion where critics are pointed out: viewtopic.php?t=20861 (eventhough not always constructive)

The thing is that some posts are removed from time to time in order to prevent any impact it could have on some webteam members. And I repeat, those number of posts are just a very few amount !!!!!

Chris

Flybe
Posts: 405
Joined: 18 Sep 2003, 00:00

Post by Flybe »

I fully support the webteam in their decisions.

It cannot be the purpose of this website to have members of the webteam lose their job over this.

To all who are complaining right now: If you would be threatend to lose your job over a post, would you post it, or if it was already posted, wouldn't you delete it? All forefighters of freedom of speech, armchair managers of how to run the site, untill it happens to you!

If you don't like it, start your own site, put money in it (you won't gain (much) on it), and then see what you would do if you're put in this position.

I keep on posting here, because I firmly think that if you post correct (non-confidential) numbers, and not rumours, they won't be deleted.

Luchtzak, you have my support.

Pieter

EBBR
Posts: 60
Joined: 19 Aug 2004, 00:00

Post by EBBR »

Some people in this world should realise that an open communication to the outside world stops lots of rumours and gossips, especially in the aviation industry. I have never understood why the managment of company X dont join this forums and participate actively in it. Problem with a plane and member A has questions? Don´t wait till false information has been posted, log in and explain the situation. Discussion closed!

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