Sobelair replacements...

[ostair]

Has anyone used the Sobelair replacements?

I mean has anyone used the past week one of the replacements of Sobelair chartered by Jetair?

When Citybird went bust ,I was put on a JMC flight with British cabincrew from Brussels to Tenerife.
The people next to me had some questions in French but the Brits couldn't understand it so I had to translate it.

On the way back, to my surprise, they had someone onboard who was Belgian and spoke all of our national languages without a problem. She helped the British crew with all the "foreign" languages.

My question is with Transavia(HV) taken over just over half the flights of Sobelair, aren't there any problems with our Walloon friends? Just knowing that many of our Dutch neighbours hardly understand a word of French.
Or has this been solved by putting already a TUI airlines Belgium flight attendant onboard? .

Greetings

[twan01]

I think there will be a similar problem will the "Condor" flights from TC. where the FA speak neither french or dutch.

I hope that Jetair and TC will think about this, and put -not only for the service but most important for the security of their customers- some dutch and french speaking FA on board.

[sn26567]

When Citybird went bust ,I was put on a JMC flight with British cabincrew from Brussels to Tenerife.
The people next to me had some questions in French but the Brits couldn't understand it so I had to translate it.

On the way back, to my surprise, they had someone onboard who was Belgian and spoke all of our national languages without a problem. She helped the British crew with all the "foreign" languages.

Very typical of all British crews. It's exactly the same on BA/SN codeshared flights. Not one single F/A speaks a "foreign" language.

Therefore I am surprised that the airline trating website gives three stars to BA for their "language skills". Is that because they speak correct English and not Broad Yorkshire?

Our Belgian crews are all-time champions in language skills.

Among the American airlines, I remember that PanAm always had F/As of many nationalities who could speak the language of the local people, but this was rather unique for an airline from an English-speaking country. They tend to believe that English is the only language in the world.

[Comet]

When Citybird went bust ,I was put on a JMC flight with British cabincrew from Brussels to Tenerife.
The people next to me had some questions in French but the Brits couldn't understand it so I had to translate it.

On the way back, to my surprise, they had someone onboard who was Belgian and spoke all of our national languages without a problem. She helped the British crew with all the "foreign" languages.

Very typical of all British crews. It's exactly the same on BA/SN codeshared flights. Not one single F/A speaks a "foreign" language.

Therefore I am surprised that the airline trating website gives three stars to BA for their "language skills". Is that because they speak correct English and not Broad Yorkshire?

Our Belgian crews are all-time champions in language skills.

Among the American airlines, I remember that PanAm always had F/As of many nationalities who could speak the language of the local people, but this was rather unique for an airline from an English-speaking country. They tend to believe that English is the only language in the world.

What is wrong with speaking English? It is our language and we should be proud of it, and not constantly made to feel ashamed of our culture and heritage.

And what is wrong with Broad Yorkshire? Must all regional dialects be phased out in favour of everything being uniform and the same? What is wrong with diversity?

How many of you have ever even heard Broad Yorkshire being spoken (apart maybe from those who were spotting near us on 7th September last year?)

[Avro]

I totally agree with you André

What is wrong with speaking English? It is our language and we should be proud of it, and not constantly made to feel ashamed of our culture and heritage.

Louise, of course it's your language, but not all people travelling can understand English. I know you can't ask them to speak every language, but when an airline like BA makes so much code shares with SNBA to/from Belgium it would be normal that they have at least one FA that has some notions of french or flemish. Don't you think???

I mean what would you say if on the SNBA flights you'll be doing later this year, nobody would speak English???

Ciao
Chris
8)

[Sabena_690]

Comet: why do you think that Belgians are popular for foreign airlines like AF/KL for example?

Due to our language skills! A lot of Belgians talk 4 languages...

And do you refuse to learn other languages because it would spoil your 'culture' and 'heritage'?

The fact that other airlines have to replace the SLR flights is indeed a problem for several Belgians only speaking Dutch and/or French. The same can be said about the current DE flight to Goa with only German- and English speaking cabin crews on board (inclusive one translator I believe).

Frederic

[vflies]

PanAm always had F/As of many nationalities who could speak the language of the local people, but this was rather unique for an airline from an English-speaking country. They tend to believe that English is the only language in the world.

Hello Andre

You'll find that all major US carriers still have FA's with 'language positions' on intl flights. Those get paid extra to make the PA's (and help communication when needed) in the local language of the destination.

With many foreign-born Americans speaking more than just English, they find plenty of multilingual worforce.
Spanish, Polish, Russian or Chinese are widely spoken among large communities that provide lots of ideal FA's for the airlines.
Out of BRU, usually French is no problem, but Dutch can be rather "funny"...

VFlies

[vflies]

when an airline like BA makes so much code shares with SNBA to/from Belgium it would be normal that they have at least one FA that has some notions of french or flemish.

Hello Chris,

You can't seriously expect an airline like BA to have FA speaking the local language(s) for all their destinations on every flight...
I know they have Asians o/b their flights to the Far East, I don't know about domestic European flights...

I don't think that SNBA crew on the code-share flights to HEL actually speak Finnish and would not even be sure that they have somebody who speaks good German o/b flights to Germany, Italian to Italy or Castillan to Spain...
especially as there are usually only two FA's on their tiny avros...

Anyways that's a problem you'll have on most codeshare flights, especially with smaller languages and let's face it, the only language you'll hear on EVERY flight is English...

IMO the best way to staff a codeshare flight is to mix the crews like Sabena and Delta used to do...
Then you really get two cultures on board and you always have somebody to represent the airline you bought your ticket from...

VFlies

[Comet]

I remember reading in a national UK newspaper about BA recruiting ethnic staff for their flights to Asia.

I would have thought that at least French would be spoken, but then again it is a relection of the standard of language teaching in UK schools. I speak from experience when I say it is very poor! At school we all had to study French, but you don't learn how to have a conversation with a French speaker. All you get taught are things like "how are you?" "I am very well thank you". "I would like to book a hotel room", in other words, very basic phrases which you might use on holiday. There was never any allowance made for any response which might be different from the set reply such as "I am very well thank you". You are taught set questions and set responses, not how to actually converse properly in a language. I have studied French, Spanish, German and Dutch but I would never, ever, attempt to use them on anyone because the teaching we get is so very limited in scope and is bascially damned embarrassing!

Sorry for that fftopic: piece, but I thought I would try and clarify for you just how badly taught the English are in foreign languages.

[Avro]

Dear VFlies,

Hello Chris,

You can't seriously expect an airline like BA to have FA speaking the local language(s) for all their destinations on every flight...
I know they have Asians o/b their flights to the Far East, I don't know about domestic European flights...
I don't think that SNBA crew on the code-share flights to HEL actually speak Finnish and would not even be sure that they have somebody who speaks good German o/b flights to Germany, Italian to Italy or Castillan to Spain...
especially as there are usually only two FA's on their tiny avros...

I never said that. I just said that it would be normal for an airline that operates such intensive code share agreements with SNBA that some of their FA's would have notions in French (Dutch is more difficult to find). I totally agree that the it's impossible to have FA's that speak all local languages.

A solution could be to place one SNBA FA on the BA flights that are codeshared

Anyways that's a problem you'll have on most codeshare flights, especially with smaller languages and let's face it, the only language you'll hear on EVERY flight is English...

I totally agree with you

IMO the best way to staff a codeshare flight is to mix the crews like Sabena and Delta used to do...
Then you really get two cultures on board and you always have somebody to represent the airline you bought your ticket from...

Exactly, as I just mentioned, a solution could be to place an SNBA FA on every codeshared flight. But I guess this is an expensive solution

Best Regards
Chris
8)

[OO-SBZ]

Sorry for that fftopic: piece, but I thought I would try and clarify for you just how badly taught the English are in foreign languages.

As a teacher of mine said: 'You always get the teaching you deserve'...
In other words, people usually experience language courses as boring, pointless experiences but we can question their motivation... and I have already seen motivated teacher becoming -at least- as bored as their students.

Secondary school pupils are not the most motivated learners you can get whereas too many adult learners (and some teachers) are still in the doom of the 'classical language teaching' where a modern language is still taught like Latin or ancient Greek.

Learning everyday English (asking the way, how to book a room, buying things, etc.) is part of any modern language course since the main purpose is communication and the learners are more likely to use foreign languages in such contexts than to discuss Shakespeare's sonnets.

Yet Louise I admit a suitable language course should go beyond basic phrases with more 'advanced' learners...

I was fftopic: but wanted to react

BeN
(not only interested in Ryanair's leather seats)

[ostair]

Has anyone used the replacements recently??

It appears that Transavia uses the B737-700 and 800.

Do they have audio and video entertainment??

Personally I like the onboard entertainmant onboard the A320's of Thomas Cook Airlines Belgium.
My question is , will the 737-400 who TUI Air Belgium will take over from sister Hapag Lloyd be boring?
I mean won't there be any entertainment(audio channels-video screens)?

It's ok on a 2 hour flight without any entertainment but on a 4hr+ journey its nice to see something else than your front neighbours seat...
Yes, you can alsways bring a book but then what is modern aviation all about??

Cheers

[Jense]

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/452686/L/
I don't have experience with Transavia, but with DutchBird...
Btw: It may not be possible that the crew doesn't speak the language of the passenger, that's terrible...! 8O (Not the crew's fault!)

greettzzz

[vflies]

Hello Chris,

Well we seem to agree...


VFlies

[MD-11]

A colleague of mine flies next week to LEAL ( Alicante )
. He booked this trip with Jetair.
Which airline will he fly?
Doesn't Jetair normally uses SLR?

[vflies]

I don't have experience with Transavia, but with DutchBird...

Hello

AFAIK DutchBird just "helped TC out" for the summer months and I believe they used some BRU-based Belgian FA's (from TC??? I don't think so...), so they probably spoke both main Belgian languages...

I don't know if such an arrangement was done with Transavia and Condor...

VFlies

[Comet]

Comet: why do you think that Belgians are popular for foreign airlines like AF/KL for example?

Due to our language skills! A lot of Belgians talk 4 languages...

And do you refuse to learn other languages because it would spoil your 'culture' and 'heritage'?

The fact that other airlines have to replace the SLR flights is indeed a problem for several Belgians only speaking Dutch and/or French. The same can be said about the current DE flight to Goa with only German- and English speaking cabin crews on board (inclusive one translator I believe).

Frederic

Frederic - I will answer your question, even though what I say may be regarded as off topic - please bear with me on it!

I don't refuse at all to learn other languages, as I have already said, I have studied French, Spanish, German and Dutch. Without boasting, I can say I was one of the top language students in my classes because I just enjoyed learning languages, basically.

What I have pointed out is that the standard of language teaching in the UK is very poor. I can make a direct comparison here - on Luchtzak I have had chatroom conversations with people who are only about 14 years old, yet their standard of English is excellent, truly! If you were to have a conversation in French with a UK student of the same age, you would see the shortcomings in language teaching very quickly, I can assure you! Our teachers even set up exchanges with foreign students of our own age, and their standard of written conversational English was alot better than our command of their languages. I have made this point to try and explain why the English are so bad with languages compared with other European nationals.

I know from experience how good you Belgians are with languages! But we never take for granted that everyone will automatically speak English and consider it polite to ask first.

[vflies]

Hello Louise:

I believe that Scandinavians and people in the Low Countries owe their good knowledge of English mainly to the media.
Those are the only countries were all those popular US shows and movies are subtitled rather than dubbed...
Together with musical UK and US imports, they guarantee that everyone hears some English everyday, so eventually they all pick something... Right?
British kids on the other hand only hear French in class and on vacation... if they choose to go to France... And I'm afraid the only French channels on offer in the UK (TV5, EuroNews, FashionTV and Moteurs on Sky, TeleWest and ntl:) won't attract people enough to make them learn the language...

My 2cents (2p for you, Louise!) worth in our 'off-topic' discussion. lol

VFlies

[Jense]

@vflies: The "main-FA" (or how do you say it? cabineoverste) was a Belgian, the other FA's were Dutch people.
fftopic: :Flight FQ368 to GCCR (Lanzarote). B757 PH-DBB (just for info...)

greettzzz[/list]

[vflies]

Oh ok. Thanks for the info, Jense.
As you see I'm not a charter specialist... LOL

Still, one FA o/b should be enough to take care of PA's and stuff in both languages...

VFlies