Apparently, we are going more and more to the independence of Flanders. Cost for Flanders: Brussels. It will be difficult to understand by a big part of the flemish, but the new "country" will loose a lot in Brussels, definitely.
Anyway...
Last election of Belgium
Re: Last election of Belgium
Can be a nice idea! But would they accept? Not sure
Apparently, we are going more and more to the independence of Flanders. Cost for Flanders: Brussels. It will be difficult to understand by a big part of the flemish, but the new "country" will loose a lot in Brussels, definitely.
Anyway...
Apparently, we are going more and more to the independence of Flanders. Cost for Flanders: Brussels. It will be difficult to understand by a big part of the flemish, but the new "country" will loose a lot in Brussels, definitely.
Anyway...
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jan_olieslagers
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Re: Last election of Belgium
The country would have split up long since, if it weren't for the (sentimental?) attachment of the (or should we say, "certain" ?) Flemish to Brussels. In Brussels, they are slowly beginning to realise they need money from outside so they better keep their manners, but it might take some more time before they're aware there's no money to be got from those who are short for themselves. As long as common sense doesn't prevail in the Brussels voter's heads, this country is doomed. The hard words are no more between language groups, but rather countryside vs. metropolis.
As I said before: generally speaking, Wallonians have been cleverer and are - slowly, but yet - rediscovering the advantages of humble hard work. And they have certainly done well to pick up the opportunities in civil air traffic, so foolishly dropped by an over-confident Flemish government.
As I said before: generally speaking, Wallonians have been cleverer and are - slowly, but yet - rediscovering the advantages of humble hard work. And they have certainly done well to pick up the opportunities in civil air traffic, so foolishly dropped by an over-confident Flemish government.
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Desert Rat
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Re: Last election of Belgium
Sentimental or financial?jan_olieslagers wrote:The country would have split up long since, if it weren't for the (sentimental?) attachment of the (or should we say, "certain" ?) Flemish to Brussels.
Re: Last election of Belgium
Actually, around 400000 people (250000 Flemish and 150000 Walloons) use all the infrastructure for which I pay 52% of my salary each month. For them.
Every day, they enter my city and they annoy me (and lots of other brussels citizens) by blocking everything, polluting everythings, everywhere.
They pay nothing. No, they use Brussels and they keep the money. Brussels produces 1/5th of the belgian PIB, and receives only 1/10th back!. We, brussels citizens, can be very nice and polite, but be aware it's not the case anymore. We are fed up with your bloody nationalist chit chat. Brussels is NOT in Flanders nor in Wallonia (Brussels is Brussels, that's it), is NOT capital of Flanders.
Come, profit from the city, and pay your contribution for that. Pay for what you use, or leave. We accept everybody, Walloons or Flemish, but consider you are not at home...
If you respect that, we can even let the city be your true capital
Every day, they enter my city and they annoy me (and lots of other brussels citizens) by blocking everything, polluting everythings, everywhere.
They pay nothing. No, they use Brussels and they keep the money. Brussels produces 1/5th of the belgian PIB, and receives only 1/10th back!. We, brussels citizens, can be very nice and polite, but be aware it's not the case anymore. We are fed up with your bloody nationalist chit chat. Brussels is NOT in Flanders nor in Wallonia (Brussels is Brussels, that's it), is NOT capital of Flanders.
Come, profit from the city, and pay your contribution for that. Pay for what you use, or leave. We accept everybody, Walloons or Flemish, but consider you are not at home...
If you respect that, we can even let the city be your true capital
Re: Last election of Belgium
Typical for inhabitants of Brussels is that they ignore legislation. Brussels is the capital city of Flanders, if you like it or not. ( and of Belgium, and of the French Community , of the EU and headquarter of NATO and whatever )Crosswind wrote:Actually, around 400000 people (250000 Flemish and 150000 Walloons) use all the infrastructure for which I pay 52% of my salary each month. For them.
Every day, they enter my city and they annoy me (and lots of other brussels citizens) by blocking everything, polluting everythings, everywhere.
They pay nothing. No, they use Brussels and they keep the money. Brussels produces 1/5th of the belgian PIB, and receives only 1/10th back!. We, brussels citizens, can be very nice and polite, but be aware it's not the case anymore. We are fed up with your bloody nationalist chit chat. Brussels is NOT in Flanders nor in Wallonia (Brussels is Brussels, that's it), is NOT capital of Flanders.
Come, profit from the city, and pay your contribution for that. Pay for what you use, or leave. We accept everybody, Walloons or Flemish, but consider you are not at home...
If you respect that, we can even let the city be your true capital
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlaanderen
And can you explain why so many commuters from outside Brussels ( > Flanders or Wallonie ) come to work in "your" city while the unemployment in Brussels is so high?
OK, we follow your idea: we don't come to work anymore at Brussels. Do it yourself. And all offices are moved outside Brussels in Flanders and Wallonia depending on their origine.
It won't be quiet as you assume. Because we also keep our policemen in our regions instead of dispatching them to keep the unemployed youngsters "calm".
And you can not profit anymore from extremely high rentals to expats from international organisations.
Imagine: Brussels without the EU and NATO...
Re: Last election of Belgium
What a perfect example of manipulation language... Bart does a good job 
Brussels is a bronx wich need the valorous cop from Flanders and, of course, workers from Flanders otherwise she will fall in the dark... Very nice. Although I personnaly agree with the fact that immigration and social politic is a disaster since years in Brussels (thanks PS), I cannot say we can't survive without YOU, Flemish.
If you don't want to pay for what you use in Brussels (infrastructure, taxes) just bring your office with you and go home. For you, that means the economic death of Brussels. For us that means freedom. Brussels were not always full of foreigners working in the city and paying their taxes home... Brussels has power to act without you and your (future) Republic (capital? Antwerpen I guess...).
Actually, Flanders is more and more a State. More than ever. That means you have to accept that Brussels habitant can feel the same. We, in Brussels, are not Flemish, are not "capital" of anything except Belgium (for the moment) and we decide of our future.
I know probably between 4 and 500 brusseleirs native since generations or not, dutch (few) and french speaking. All are LOL when we speak about Flanders capital And of course we imitate this excellent guy, Kris Peters (a very funny one).
Take your Octopus note, pay if you want to profit from us, or bye (without animosity).
Brussels is a bronx wich need the valorous cop from Flanders and, of course, workers from Flanders otherwise she will fall in the dark... Very nice. Although I personnaly agree with the fact that immigration and social politic is a disaster since years in Brussels (thanks PS), I cannot say we can't survive without YOU, Flemish.
If you don't want to pay for what you use in Brussels (infrastructure, taxes) just bring your office with you and go home. For you, that means the economic death of Brussels. For us that means freedom. Brussels were not always full of foreigners working in the city and paying their taxes home... Brussels has power to act without you and your (future) Republic (capital? Antwerpen I guess...).
Actually, Flanders is more and more a State. More than ever. That means you have to accept that Brussels habitant can feel the same. We, in Brussels, are not Flemish, are not "capital" of anything except Belgium (for the moment) and we decide of our future.
I know probably between 4 and 500 brusseleirs native since generations or not, dutch (few) and french speaking. All are LOL when we speak about Flanders capital
And of course we imitate this excellent guy, Kris Peters (a very funny one).Take your Octopus note, pay if you want to profit from us, or bye (without animosity).
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jan_olieslagers
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Re: Last election of Belgium
If citing from law (Brussels is indeed the Flemish capital, BY LAW!) is manipulation to you, then I know what to think of your comments.Crosswind wrote:What a perfect example of manipulation language
Re: Last election of Belgium
Which Law? Flanders Parliament? :
Oh, sorry, We will ask a Brussels law to promulgate New-York as capital of Brussels
Dream as long as you want, but Brussels has less and less to do with Flanders. You want nationalism, you get... Nationalism.
Oh, sorry, We will ask a Brussels law to promulgate New-York as capital of Brussels
Dream as long as you want, but Brussels has less and less to do with Flanders. You want nationalism, you get... Nationalism.
Re: Last election of Belgium
Look, we all know it is not nice if your city is invaded every day by road congesting migrant workers.
I do fully agree, I have lost many hours in Brussels' traffic jams, looking for a parking space, trying to keep the car unscratched. ( when I was visiting international institutions, embassies, national offices, all kind of services that would disappear from Brussels in case of a split up )
As an inhabitant of Bruges, which is also overwhelmed daily by thousands of tourists, I get your point.
But you have to be realistic. In case of a split up of the country, many services will simply disappear from Brussels. Regional affairs will be relocated. I hope that you are aware that this has happened before ! At a certain moment the ministry for tax collection of television , radio and car radio tax was located at Aalst.
International headquarters will leave Belgium, hurting all Belgians. So Brussels will not receive the taxes on those immigrant salaries.
What aviation concerns, Zaventem which is a part of Flanders and not of Brussels, will receive taxes on salaries of migrant workers from Wallonia and Brussels.
I suppose that most jobs at Charleroi are performed by Walloon people ( as far as they are not employed under a foreign contract
). But at Liège there are quite some Flemish and Dutch people.
About your complaints that you pay for all the nuisance, it seems that you are not aware that Brussels is on the receiving side of the money drain. Your politicians do even ask for more.
Flemish politicians are under heavy pressure by their voters to pull all kind of offices out of Brussels, creating a dramatic decrease of rental prices, more unemployment for low skilled workers. These voters do not understand that the politicians remain in Brussels to keep their rights. Once they would go, it is all over & out.
( a kind of self inflicted ethnical cleansing )
But have you thought 1 moment what it would mean if Brussels would really become a independent state? Few resources, few manufacturing, no reason to keep there an embassy or European headquarter. No airport ( except if they chop down the Zoniën forrest and start up a small regional airport for relief flights )
Flanders can keep on going. So does Wallonia. But Brussels? It sounds as West-Berlin during the cold war. Kept alive by artificial tricks.
I do fully agree, I have lost many hours in Brussels' traffic jams, looking for a parking space, trying to keep the car unscratched. ( when I was visiting international institutions, embassies, national offices, all kind of services that would disappear from Brussels in case of a split up )
As an inhabitant of Bruges, which is also overwhelmed daily by thousands of tourists, I get your point.
But you have to be realistic. In case of a split up of the country, many services will simply disappear from Brussels. Regional affairs will be relocated. I hope that you are aware that this has happened before ! At a certain moment the ministry for tax collection of television , radio and car radio tax was located at Aalst.
International headquarters will leave Belgium, hurting all Belgians. So Brussels will not receive the taxes on those immigrant salaries.
What aviation concerns, Zaventem which is a part of Flanders and not of Brussels, will receive taxes on salaries of migrant workers from Wallonia and Brussels.
I suppose that most jobs at Charleroi are performed by Walloon people ( as far as they are not employed under a foreign contract
). But at Liège there are quite some Flemish and Dutch people.About your complaints that you pay for all the nuisance, it seems that you are not aware that Brussels is on the receiving side of the money drain. Your politicians do even ask for more.
Flemish politicians are under heavy pressure by their voters to pull all kind of offices out of Brussels, creating a dramatic decrease of rental prices, more unemployment for low skilled workers. These voters do not understand that the politicians remain in Brussels to keep their rights. Once they would go, it is all over & out.
( a kind of self inflicted ethnical cleansing )
But have you thought 1 moment what it would mean if Brussels would really become a independent state? Few resources, few manufacturing, no reason to keep there an embassy or European headquarter. No airport ( except if they chop down the Zoniën forrest and start up a small regional airport for relief flights )
Flanders can keep on going. So does Wallonia. But Brussels? It sounds as West-Berlin during the cold war. Kept alive by artificial tricks.
Re: Last election of Belgium
By the way: with the current European economic chaos, I would not be surprised that within a very short time, all sentimental matters will be whiped of the table, and some ruthless politicians will squeeze us in a economic straitjacket. 
And we will look back at this period of saloon politics as a period of gone luxury.
And we will look back at this period of saloon politics as a period of gone luxury.
Re: Last election of Belgium
Ah, regi, I hope you don't believe in your prose, as it is so sympthomatic...
What do you think? That all the companies in Brussels are Flemish? That the center of the world is in Flanders? or maybe that the only place in Belgium where we can find money is in Flanders?
In Brussels, the majority of the companies doesn't care about flemish or walloons. they want to make money. In case of separation, they will not go at once to Gent or Antwerpen, they will just hold their breath, and wait. Wait because move has a cost. Why to move if you can stay in a big city, EU capital? It's a non sense.
So now, if Brussels ask money from individual flemish or wallon workers, like many other countries? what do you think workers will they do? Pay. they'll Pay because their company will still be in Brussels, and because they have a job and they need money!
So, no, don't expect a huge and massive defect of companies from Brussels for Flandria. It's a Kris Peeters fantasm. You want to believe it? Do so, but don't come back, crying and shouting "c'est trop injuste"
The fact are still that Flemish receives 16 milliards Euros from Brussels, and that Brussels receives PEANUTS. And this situation must end.
For the potential economical attack situation now, blame yourself first. Nobody here has voted for a stupid nationalist/populist party. I would like a big crush on Belgium. In that case, you will assume a beautifull "Republic of vlaanderen", and good luck with your fantasms
What do you think? That all the companies in Brussels are Flemish? That the center of the world is in Flanders? or maybe that the only place in Belgium where we can find money is in Flanders?
In Brussels, the majority of the companies doesn't care about flemish or walloons. they want to make money. In case of separation, they will not go at once to Gent or Antwerpen, they will just hold their breath, and wait. Wait because move has a cost. Why to move if you can stay in a big city, EU capital? It's a non sense.
So now, if Brussels ask money from individual flemish or wallon workers, like many other countries? what do you think workers will they do? Pay. they'll Pay because their company will still be in Brussels, and because they have a job and they need money!
So, no, don't expect a huge and massive defect of companies from Brussels for Flandria. It's a Kris Peeters fantasm. You want to believe it? Do so, but don't come back, crying and shouting "c'est trop injuste"
The fact are still that Flemish receives 16 milliards Euros from Brussels, and that Brussels receives PEANUTS. And this situation must end.
For the potential economical attack situation now, blame yourself first. Nobody here has voted for a stupid nationalist/populist party. I would like a big crush on Belgium. In that case, you will assume a beautifull "Republic of vlaanderen", and good luck with your fantasms
Re: Last election of Belgium
I add, because you seem to forget it, that in all places around the world, you pay your taxes where you work! so PAY YOUR TAXES IN BRUSSELS and SHUT UP
Re: Last election of Belgium
In Belgium we pay taxes in Belgium. So that is already well arranged according your wishes. ( the ministries are still centralised in Brussels). I don't know why I should shut up.Crosswind wrote:I add, because you seem to forget it, that in all places around the world, you pay your taxes where you work! so PAY YOUR TAXES IN BRUSSELS and SHUT UP
Re: Last election of Belgium
I don't know how many people read this newspaper. But it seems that their staff is not French speaking anymore.
Have a great laugh with that title:
http://www.lalibre.be/actu/belgique/art ... umans.html
La Roi a reçu le président du parlement flamand Jan Peumans.
And still some inhabitants of Brussels are annoyed by Flemish commuters. They would better employ even more Dutch speakers at their newspaper desks because the native French speakers are unable to apply the most basic language rules.
Oh yes, they are recruiting, with the emphasis on good French language skills. See the website.
- Très bonne expression en français. Présentation impeccable.
This made my day.
Have a great laugh with that title:
http://www.lalibre.be/actu/belgique/art ... umans.html
La Roi a reçu le président du parlement flamand Jan Peumans.
And still some inhabitants of Brussels are annoyed by Flemish commuters. They would better employ even more Dutch speakers at their newspaper desks because the native French speakers are unable to apply the most basic language rules.
Oh yes, they are recruiting, with the emphasis on good French language skills. See the website.
- Très bonne expression en français. Présentation impeccable.
This made my day.
Re: Last election of Belgium
I can't see where is your problem with this sentence? Is it congenital disease or you are all obnubilated by language, in flanders?? 
For Belgium. Flemish use Belgium to increase their power (see all the money you've taken from Belgium to build your economical succes, ports, railroads, invstments and subventions), but leave her when it suits better to do so. For now, more than 1 flemish on 2 vote for a separatist party, and the CD&V is confederalist (but apparently maybe nearly dead). Assume, and please don't speak of Belgium, it sounds fake.
Flanders, geographically speaking, has never existed. Flanders, Limburg and Brabant are not the same (for your information me and my family should consider ourselves as "Brabançons", since hundred of years, but what is precisely a "Brabançon"?). All these regions were turned and used by a lot of populations (celtics, germanics, romans), evolutions, differents cultures. In 1963 you finally defined an artificial frontier. Artificial! That's why we think we can ask for modifications to this frontier. And we are not the only ones to find it normal and logic. Soon or later and, certainly if the country splits up, Bruxelles will expand and there will be a corridor to Wallonia. That day, you will play with Bart De Wever, Kris Peeters and Octopus chéri on your side, and don't forget to shut the door
It's even not a question of choice, it will be naturally done
For Belgium. Flemish use Belgium to increase their power (see all the money you've taken from Belgium to build your economical succes, ports, railroads, invstments and subventions), but leave her when it suits better to do so. For now, more than 1 flemish on 2 vote for a separatist party, and the CD&V is confederalist (but apparently maybe nearly dead). Assume, and please don't speak of Belgium, it sounds fake.
Flanders, geographically speaking, has never existed. Flanders, Limburg and Brabant are not the same (for your information me and my family should consider ourselves as "Brabançons", since hundred of years, but what is precisely a "Brabançon"?). All these regions were turned and used by a lot of populations (celtics, germanics, romans), evolutions, differents cultures. In 1963 you finally defined an artificial frontier. Artificial! That's why we think we can ask for modifications to this frontier. And we are not the only ones to find it normal and logic. Soon or later and, certainly if the country splits up, Bruxelles will expand and there will be a corridor to Wallonia. That day, you will play with Bart De Wever, Kris Peeters and Octopus chéri on your side, and don't forget to shut the door
It's even not a question of choice, it will be naturally done
Last edited by Crosswind on 13 Jul 2011, 11:09, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Last election of Belgium
And by the way, I ask again: pay your taxes where you work, like everywhere else!
Re: Last election of Belgium
Thank you to inform us that the title "La roi..." is correct French.Crosswind wrote:I can't see where is your problem with this sentence? Is it congenital disease or you are all obnubilated by language, in flanders??
La roi or le roi , did you not see it? jeezes...
Re: Last election of Belgium
Ah! Wonderful zeg...
And, what would you proove with that stupid thing?
And, what would you proove with that stupid thing?
Re: Last election of Belgium
I answered already: I pay my taxes in Belgium. ( and I don't state as you that all my tax money goes to infrastructure . Tax money goes for a large portion to salaries, pensions, unemployment fees )Crosswind wrote:And by the way, I ask again: pay your taxes where you work, like everywhere else!
I agree with you that we dislike how our tax money is spent. That is something to be decided about during an election.
To remain positive: be glad that you can pay 52% taxes. It means you have a real job. A sour apple, but still an apple.
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Desert Rat
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