Brussels Airlines in 2023

[lumumba]

For the crew they can work like the others and arrive in the morning and leave in the evening the crew rest overday.

And kill TATL connections. Airlines that land in LAD in the morning either are not interested in TATL connections, or have an afternoon/evening arrival bank from the US to feed their LAD flights.

That's true so the solution would be an A321XLR...the triangular flight with FIH is not competitive anymore.

[lumumba]

Exactly but it's a decrease and Lufthansa did the same I never said it was definitely but it's weird for the summer season even more knowing that lufhansa did the same...and now Brussels Airlines have to cancel so they only have 2 flights till September...that's weak.

Making cost efficient adjustments isn’t weird nor weak! Historically the demand for FIH increases during holiday periods whilst the demand for LAD decreases. There’s more money to be made with a non stop FIH then with a triangular flight hence the reduction during summer. The same goes for temporary cancellation due to the closure of the Nigerien airspace, due to the triangular flight the crew duty limits are exceeded and it’s not economically viable to put extra crew hence the temporary cancellation.
It would be weak and weird not to take advantage of certain opportunities and flying, marginally profitable, routes who put more pressure on the already stretched operations.

I understand but when Lufthansa and Brussels decrease together than is weird to me plus the Niger crisis and you lose passengers....to other airlines.
From 6 to 2 flights it's weak and a mistake!
In my opinion it's greedy what they tried,just to maximize there profit they will lose marker share.

[fcw]

I understand but when Lufthansa and Brussels decrease together than is weird to me plus the Niger crisis and you lose passengers....to other airlines.
From 6 to 2 flights it's weak and a mistake!
In my opinion it's greedy what they tried,just to maximize there profit they will lose marker share.

So you understand but you don’t want to understand, no matter the facts, stats, common sense, research or whatever is out there.
Let’s move on then, just as with the noise issue around the airport, you want a direct flight to LAD, three times a week, for 60 passengers but the aircraft they’re on can’t overfly your house, if I understood well…

[DannyVDB]

Hi all,

I do not say the issue / discussion on LAD is not important but ...

... To be honest, currently I am more concerned about the whole situation in Western Africa that could affect the whole W-African network of SN and other airlines. Then we do not speak anymore on longer flight times but closure of some destinations or at least downgrading because of less passengers to countries that are at war. Let's hope it does not evolve like that but you never know ...

Since SN is focused on W-Africa (and good at it), the impact would be very big.

With kind regards,
Danny

[lumumba]

I understand but when Lufthansa and Brussels decrease together than is weird to me plus the Niger crisis and you lose passengers....to other airlines.
From 6 to 2 flights it's weak and a mistake!
In my opinion it's greedy what they tried,just to maximize there profit they will lose marker share.

So you understand but you don’t want to understand, no matter the facts, stats, common sense, research or whatever is out there.
Let’s move on then, just as with the noise issue around the airport, you want a direct flight to LAD, three times a week, for 60 passengers but the aircraft they’re on can’t overfly your house, if I understood well…

I think they can grow in LAD but never intend to with the triangular flight,even RAM is doing much beter and arrived so much later on this market and yes that is my opinion about what they did .
I'm not against flights at Brussels Airport at all it can grow over my head I grew up in Evere so I know very well what it means but yes nigh flights has to be stopped this Airport is geographically not suitable for it,so much anger here on this forum about something obvious you can't even discuss about it anymore!!!

[lumumba]

Hi all,

I do not say the issue / discussion on LAD is not important but ...

... To be honest, currently I am more concerned about the whole situation in Western Africa that could affect the whole W-African network of SN and other airlines. Then we do not speak anymore on longer flight times but closure of some destinations or at least downgrading because of less passengers to countries that are at war. Let's hope it does not evolve like that but you never know ...

Since SN is focused on W-Africa (and good at it), the impact would be very big.

With kind regards,
Danny

I don't think so besides LAD only Douala,Yaounde and Kinshasa are affected but not very strongly to South Africa this problem is more serious also compared to the yield you pay to go there,for AF it's a different story ....

[fcw]

I think they can grow in LAD but never intend to with the triangular flight,even RAM is doing much beter and arrived so much later on this market and yes that is my opinion about what they did .
I'm not against flights at Brussels Airport at all it can grow over my head I grew up in Evere so I know very well what it means but yes nigh flights has to be stopped this Airport is geographically not suitable for it,so much anger here on this forum about something obvious you can't even discuss about it anymore!!!

But there is no, educated, discussion possible because of your fixation on certain expectations: more flights to LAD and a strict ban on night flights.
You are too much personally attached to the subjects, so you only react with emotions: “anger, weak, weird, mistake…”. Whilst emotions are a healthy reaction to what your are experiencing, they shouldn’t compromise the decision-making process.
The analysis of market trends, statistics, company performance and critical evaluation of opportunities and abilities should be the determining factors.
If someone claims to understand but only understands what they believe it becomes impossible to have a reasonable discussion. In such cases it’s better to end the discussion before it becomes an argument.

[lumumba]

I think they can grow in LAD but never intend to with the triangular flight,even RAM is doing much beter and arrived so much later on this market and yes that is my opinion about what they did .
I'm not against flights at Brussels Airport at all it can grow over my head I grew up in Evere so I know very well what it means but yes nigh flights has to be stopped this Airport is geographically not suitable for it,so much anger here on this forum about something obvious you can't even discuss about it anymore!!!

But there is no, educated, discussion possible because of your fixation on certain expectations: more flights to LAD and a strict ban on night flights.
You are too much personally attached to the subjects, so you only react with emotions: “anger, weak, weird, mistake…”. Whilst emotions are a healthy reaction to what your are experiencing, they shouldn’t compromise the decision-making process.
The analysis of market trends, statistics, company performance and critical evaluation of opportunities and abilities should be the determining factors.
If someone claims to understand but only understands what they believe it becomes impossible to have a reasonable discussion. In such cases it’s better to end the discussion before it becomes an argument.

On the LAD subject we are not agree in my opinion they lost a lot of opportunities there knowing they where one of the first one and now one of weakest add to that the mistakes they made lately....
About Brussels Airport and night flights it has nothing to do with analysis of market trends, statistics, company performance and critical evaluation of opportunities and abilities it has to do with a human factor and that is quality of life but it was already discussed before and again we are not agree there is nothing more.

[oldblueeyes]

Of course night flights have to do with market and business opportunities.

You have a central airport of the country designed to serve to main routes and this should closed by night. This comes at a cost of opportunity for airlines playing anyhow the fair game of social rules.
At the same time 50km away in the same agglomeration you have a 2nd airport open 24 hours and serving the junk part of the traffic - airlines demanding subsidies and discounting the associated social cost of employment.

This whole situation based on nationalistic envy of the French speaking part of the country.

At the same time, there are voices complaining about the lack of attention the mother company pays to Brussels Airlines.

Let's put it straight, if you would be Lufthansa and would have 1 EUR to spend, Swiss or Munich will always win because the airport and the surrounding administration learned to keep the discount airlines away.

Thus, there are some choices, as usual, but with associated consequences:
- leave things as they are - fine, but don't be surprised if ITA, a new member of the group would look for growth in Africa as well; FCO is a new inhouse competitor and open 24 h daily
- open the traffic for a longer window - i doubt that some selected night slots would change dramatically the noise spectrum

At the end of the day, you can't have it all - either is BRU a sort of city airport serving mainly European destinations, than there is no need for 24 hours, or it turns into an interesting hub potential even for a smaller airline but than you need slot opportunities. And of course the consequence for some people would be more noise, but the footprint is known for decades and they were choosing deliberately to buy or rent their real estate in such places.

[lumumba]

Of course night flights have to do with market and business opportunities.

You have a central airport of the country designed to serve to main routes and this should closed by night. This comes at a cost of opportunity for airlines playing anyhow the fair game of social rules.
At the same time 50km away in the same agglomeration you have a 2nd airport open 24 hours and serving the junk part of the traffic - airlines demanding subsidies and discounting the associated social cost of employment.

This whole situation based on nationalistic envy of the French speaking part of the country.

At the same time, there are voices complaining about the lack of attention the mother company pays to Brussels Airlines.

Let's put it straight, if you would be Lufthansa and would have 1 EUR to spend, Swiss or Munich will always win because the airport and the surrounding administration learned to keep the discount airlines away.

Thus, there are some choices, as usual, but with associated consequences:
- leave things as they are - fine, but don't be surprised if ITA, a new member of the group would look for growth in Africa as well; FCO is a new inhouse competitor and open 24 h daily
- open the traffic for a longer window - i doubt that some selected night slots would change dramatically the noise spectrum

At the end of the day, you can't have it all - either is BRU a sort of city airport serving mainly European destinations, than there is no need for 24 hours, or it turns into an interesting hub potential even for a smaller airline but than you need slot opportunities. And of course the consequence for some people would be more noise, but the footprint is known for decades and they were choosing deliberately to buy or rent their real estate in such places.

A lot of big airports are close at night this is not a problem in itself to develop and to grow.
Even Frankfurt which is better located than Brussels is closed at night,one of the biggest in the world!

[PopUp]

Inter alias, FRA and ZRH are closed at night (curfew). BER, too. VIE (and FCO) no.

[Lux_avi]

Of course night flights have to do with market and business opportunities.

You have a central airport of the country designed to serve to main routes and this should closed by night. This comes at a cost of opportunity for airlines playing anyhow the fair game of social rules.
At the same time 50km away in the same agglomeration you have a 2nd airport open 24 hours and serving the junk part of the traffic - airlines demanding subsidies and discounting the associated social cost of employment.

This whole situation based on nationalistic envy of the French speaking part of the country.

At the same time, there are voices complaining about the lack of attention the mother company pays to Brussels Airlines.

Let's put it straight, if you would be Lufthansa and would have 1 EUR to spend, Swiss or Munich will always win because the airport and the surrounding administration learned to keep the discount airlines away.

Thus, there are some choices, as usual, but with associated consequences:
- leave things as they are - fine, but don't be surprised if ITA, a new member of the group would look for growth in Africa as well; FCO is a new inhouse competitor and open 24 h daily
- open the traffic for a longer window - i doubt that some selected night slots would change dramatically the noise spectrum

At the end of the day, you can't have it all - either is BRU a sort of city airport serving mainly European destinations, than there is no need for 24 hours, or it turns into an interesting hub potential even for a smaller airline but than you need slot opportunities. And of course the consequence for some people would be more noise, but the footprint is known for decades and they were choosing deliberately to buy or rent their real estate in such places.

CRL is closed at night.
Aren't politicians in Wallonia not allowed to develop a business in its region if it "hurts" a bit Brussels Airport?
Without CRL, all those clients would be flying out of EIN or LIL. Would that make you happier?
Looks like MoL doesn't really like BRU, right?

Poor & sad VERY little mentality you have, do you think your dutch neighbors think the same way with EIN (which is exactly the same as CRL) and AMS/KLM being not too far away...?

[crew1990]

Of course night flights have to do with market and business opportunities.

You have a central airport of the country designed to serve to main routes and this should closed by night. This comes at a cost of opportunity for airlines playing anyhow the fair game of social rules.
At the same time 50km away in the same agglomeration you have a 2nd airport open 24 hours and serving the junk part of the traffic - airlines demanding subsidies and discounting the associated social cost of employment.

This whole situation based on nationalistic envy of the French speaking part of the country.

At the same time, there are voices complaining about the lack of attention the mother company pays to Brussels Airlines.

Let's put it straight, if you would be Lufthansa and would have 1 EUR to spend, Swiss or Munich will always win because the airport and the surrounding administration learned to keep the discount airlines away.

Thus, there are some choices, as usual, but with associated consequences:
- leave things as they are - fine, but don't be surprised if ITA, a new member of the group would look for growth in Africa as well; FCO is a new inhouse competitor and open 24 h daily
- open the traffic for a longer window - i doubt that some selected night slots would change dramatically the noise spectrum

At the end of the day, you can't have it all - either is BRU a sort of city airport serving mainly European destinations, than there is no need for 24 hours, or it turns into an interesting hub potential even for a smaller airline but than you need slot opportunities. And of course the consequence for some people would be more noise, but the footprint is known for decades and they were choosing deliberately to buy or rent their real estate in such places.

CRL is closed at night.
Aren't politicians in Wallonia not allowed to develop a business in its region if it "hurts" a bit Brussels Airport?
Without CRL, all those clients would be flying out of EIN or LIL. Would that make you happier?
Looks like MoL doesn't really like BRU, right?

Poor & sad VERY little mentality you have, do you think your dutch neighbors think the same way with EIN (which is exactly the same as CRL) and AMS/KLM being not too far away...?

What would make him happier would have probably been having Antwerpen Brussels North Airport instead of Charleroi Brussels South Airport. But well, he got a point, "this whole situation based on nationalistic envy of the French speaking part of the country". This is even why when we created an airline called "Air Belgium" with employee from the 3 regions, Flanders, Wallonia and Brussels. We can't say the same from all the ever failing airlines from the north, VLM number 1, number 2, number 3, Air Antwerp. Your comment is the perfect example of what we can call "frustration". When Wallonia is not performing well we are called lazy people, bla bla bla we already know what you wrongly think, but when we have industries performing well then you are not happy neither, what should we do to preserve your mental health. Before speaking about French speaking people with national envy, look at yourself twice in a mirror, we are not the separatist one you seems to be.

[sn26567]

Gentlemen, this discussion is getting out of hand. Can we please revert to the subject of this topic: "Brussels Airlines in 2023"? Thanks!

[PopUp]

Thus discussion is pathetic !

[brabel]

Some years ago I joined this forum as an aviation enthousiast. I looked forward reading the first news on this site, coming from people that know the aviation industry and the companies flying out of Brussels.
Lately, I have been reading more and more discussions, in a very uncivilized way. A lot of name-calling has been going on, calling people stupid to have a different opinion. Seems like respect is gone on this forum. Now a political discussion about Flanders <-> Walloons... Feels like I'm reading comments of people on HLN. This is not why I'm on this forum. I'm here to read abt aviation, where I hope that every Belgian company can grow and become successful. Not here to read all this negativity.

[Homo Aeroportus]

Some years ago I joined this forum as an aviation enthousiast. I looked forward reading the first news on this site, coming from people that know the aviation industry and the companies flying out of Brussels.
Lately, I have been reading more and more discussions, in a very uncivilized way. A lot of name-calling has been going on, calling people stupid to have a different opinion. Seems like respect is gone on this forum. Now a political discussion about Flanders <-> Walloons... Feels like I'm reading comments of people on HLN. This is not why I'm on this forum. I'm here to read abt aviation, where I hope that every Belgian company can grow and become successful. Not here to read all this negativity.

+1.

H.A.

[Airbus330lover]

Some years ago I joined this forum as an aviation enthousiast. I looked forward reading the first news on this site, coming from people that know the aviation industry and the companies flying out of Brussels.
Lately, I have been reading more and more discussions, in a very uncivilized way. A lot of name-calling has been going on, calling people stupid to have a different opinion. Seems like respect is gone on this forum. Now a political discussion about Flanders <-> Walloons... Feels like I'm reading comments of people on HLN. This is not why I'm on this forum. I'm here to read abt aviation, where I hope that every Belgian company can grow and become successful. Not here to read all this negativity.

+1

[convair]

Some years ago I joined this forum as an aviation enthousiast. I looked forward reading the first news on this site, coming from people that know the aviation industry and the companies flying out of Brussels.
Lately, I have been reading more and more discussions, in a very uncivilized way. A lot of name-calling has been going on, calling people stupid to have a different opinion. Seems like respect is gone on this forum. Now a political discussion about Flanders <-> Walloons... Feels like I'm reading comments of people on HLN. This is not why I'm on this forum. I'm here to read abt aviation, where I hope that every Belgian company can grow and become successful. Not here to read all this negativity.

+1

[oldblueeyes]

Well, the thread is about Brussels Airlines and it's future and the discussion was going about whatever new destination in Africa and night operations.

The fact for you all, regardless on which ethnic and geographical part of the country are, the two airports close to to Brussels are not necessarily helping Brussels Airlines. One airport (regardless which) would have been a better option for yields, managing competition based on same principles etc.

I know this issue is very emotional and sensitive to you guys, but try to look on the view from outside.

If there is 1 EUR to be invested by the LH Group ( and any other else which would have own Brussels and would be in the position to decide between hubs), there is very likely that this amount might bring a better yield there where such competition is less fierce.

There is nobody to blame nor are the interests of the regions in the current set up bad for themselves and it is perfectly reasonable how they handle based on their regional horizon. Nevertheless the outcome as a total is not optimal.