Brussels region noise regulation

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Passenger
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Passenger »

sn26567 wrote: 28 Jan 2017, 20:55
Yuqu12 wrote: 28 Jan 2017, 20:48
sn26567 wrote: 28 Jan 2017, 14:04 The feud is not a communitarian one, but a regional one. Some people here seem to that the Brussels government is not only PS-Défi-cdH but also CD&V-sp.a-OpenVLD.
Flemish parties don't have to say that much with only 17 seats on 89 in the Brussels parliament and their ministers aren't the competent one: Fremault is minister for environment and the noise restrictions fall under environment.
Sure, but the government is "paritair" and has a collective responsibility
Agree with that. Some people call them "Flamands de service". At the elections, they get less votes then the mayor of Genoelselderen or Herstappe. But thanks to the parity in the Brussels government, they become minister.

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Yuqu12
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Yuqu12 »

sn26567 wrote: 28 Jan 2017, 20:55
Yuqu12 wrote: 28 Jan 2017, 20:48
sn26567 wrote: 28 Jan 2017, 14:04 The feud is not a communitarian one, but a regional one. Some people here seem to that the Brussels government is not only PS-Défi-cdH but also CD&V-sp.a-OpenVLD.
Flemish parties don't have to say that much with only 17 seats on 89 in the Brussels parliament and their ministers aren't the competent one: Fremault is minister for environment and the noise restrictions fall under environment.
Sure, but the government is "paritair" and has a collective responsibility
That's true too.

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luchtzak
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

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korvo
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by korvo »

Brussels airlines; TUI, Ryanair affected as well:

http://www.tijd.be/ondernemen/luchtvaar ... 1486117048

This is getting absurd ...

Acid-drop
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Acid-drop »

What's new ?
The norms are there 10 years already
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

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Yuqu12
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Yuqu12 »

Yes, but they removed the margin, now there is no margin anymore. That's what is new.

Acid-drop
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Acid-drop »

Yes but thats also not new, i mean why journalist keep coming with the same story over and over ?
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

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luchtzak
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Atlantis »

Acid-drop wrote: 03 Feb 2017, 22:56 Yes but thats also not new, i mean why journalist keep coming with the same story over and over ?
Not new???? The huge Brussels hotels are in severe financial conditions. One of them, city center Rogier, is already bankrupt. Brussels is still suffering after the attacts almost one year ago but certain politicians don't care about this and are only thinking about elections.

Living by myself in Brussels, right under the departing routes, I can assure you that the noise is really really really ok.

The situation is very critical now. We can dream here on this forum about very exotic destinations but as long as Brussels is not going to act normal, than you can all forget about this bcs airlines are not willing to pay rediculous fines.

Only an independent EU person can maybe try to bring all parties again around the table and to start to talk and to find a legal solution for many years now bcs we as country are not able to do this. Can you imagine this???? What in insane country, playing with jobs and the economy. Bravo!!!!

Passenger
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Passenger »

In 2006-2007, a reseacher (then student?) Constitutionial Right at the KU Leuven University has published an essay (his thesis then?) about the noise regulations. It's too long to translate and it's not possible to give a summary, but the first phrase of the chapter Conclusions says it all: "Uit dit onderzoek blijkt dat de grondwetgever en de bijzondere wetgever historische fouten hebben gemaakt bij de bevoegdheidsverdeling naar aanleiding van de opeenvolgende staatshervormingen. Uit een vergelijkende studie met andere federale staten, namelijk Duitsland, Zwitserland en Oostenrijk, is gebleken dat de bevoegdheid op het gebied van de strijd tegen geluidshinder m.b.t. luchtverkeer is toegewezen aan het federale niveau." My translation: The constitutional reformers in Belgium have failed by giving the authority for the aviation-noise-regulations to the regions. Other federal states like Germany, Switserland and Austria haven't, and they don't have the problems Belgium has.

Full text:
https://www.law.kuleuven.be/jura/art/43n2/keyaerts.htm

Who-is David Keyaerts:
http://www.kuleuven.be/wieiswie/nl/person/00081324

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by sn26567 »

Passenger wrote: 04 Feb 2017, 16:11The constitutional reformers in Belgium have failed by giving the authority for the aviation-noise-regulations to the regions. Other federal states like Germany, Switzerland and Austria haven't, and they don't have the problems Belgium has.
But who asked for more powers to the regions? Now the boomerang comes back...
André
ex Sabena #26567

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by sn26567 »

Could we please stop political discussions here? This is an aviation forum. We don't want it to become the fighting ground between Flanders and the rest of the country.

I know that this is mainly a political discussion, but at least please stop flaming others without listening to their arguments.
André
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Passenger
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

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The "Group of Ten" - the joint task force from Belgian employers and trade unions, has sent a letter to all heads of all six Belgian governments, asking them to settle this dispute in order to guarantuee the employment at Brussels Airport, keeping in mind that Brussels Airport is the most important hub for the Belgian economy.

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/regio ... /1.2885167

VRT / deredactie.be: De Groep van Tien, het topoverlegorgaan van vakbonden en werkgevers, heeft de verschillende federale en regionale regeringen van het land gevraagd om een oplossing uit te werken voor de patstelling die is ontstaan rond de geluidsnormen op de luchthaven van Zaventem. Dat vragen werkgevers en vakbonden in een brief aan premier Michel. De brief is niet alleen gericht aan premier Charles Michel (MR), maar ook aan de minister-presidenten van de verschillende gewestelijke regeringen. Het is zeer uitzonderlijk dat de Groep van Tien zich uitspreekt over een concreet dossier zoals Brussels Airport. De sociale partners zijn bezorgd over de banen op de luchthaven en vragen dringend overleg. De discussie over de geluidsnormen zit op dit moment volledig geblokkeerd, omdat het Brussels Gewest strengere normen wil invoeren tijdens het vroege ochtendslot waarin veel vluchten vertrekken. "Het belang is van die aard dat we hebben besloten tot een gemeenschappelijk initiatief", aldus VBO-gedelegeerd bestuurder Pieter Timmermans over de brief.

Passenger
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

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Passenger wrote: 06 Feb 2017, 21:48 The "Group of Ten" - the joint task force from Belgian employers and trade unions, has sent a letter to the heads of all Belgian governments, asking them to settle this dispute in order to guarantuee the employment at Brussels Airport, keeping in mind that Brussels Airport is the most important hub for the Belgian economy.
http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/regio ... /1.2885167
Press release Federation of Enterprises in Belgium - Verbond van Belgische Ondernemingen - Fédération des Entreprises de Belgique:

Article in Dutch:
http://www.vbo.be/actiedomeinen/overhei ... 017-06-01/
Letter in Dutch:
http://www.vbo-feb.be/globalassets/acti ... tem_nl.pdf
Article in French:
http://www.feb.be/domaines-daction/pouv ... 017-06-01/
Letter in French:
http://www.feb.be/globalassets/actiedom ... tem_fr.pdf

(the above documents are not availably in English)

Passenger
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Passenger »

According to the CD&V, the Brussels Capital Region has forgotten to communicate the technical details of their penalty system to the European Commission. The legislation thus is illegal, the CD&V says, and it will take Brussels 3 to 6 months to correct it with the EU.

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/regio ... /1.2886963

convair
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by convair »

Passenger wrote: 09 Feb 2017, 07:46 According to the CD&V, the Brussels Capital Region has forgotten to communicate the technical details of their penalty system to the European Commission. The legislation thus is illegal, the CD&V says, and it will take Brussels 3 to 6 months to correct it with the EU.

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/regio ... /1.2886963
Good to be able to rejoice at the incompetence of our "dear leaders" from time to time. :)

Could be a nice little "coup" from the administration BTW. ;)

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by lumumba »

The real need here is that the minister of transport put everybody around the table.....!
Hasta la victoria siempre.

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by jan_olieslagers »

The minister of transport did ... only to be told that one party (no need to call names) declined further arguments ... after which the prime minister took over ... as bound in duty.

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by lumumba »

jan_olieslagers wrote: 09 Feb 2017, 19:02 The minister of transport did ... only to be told that one party (no need to call names) declined further arguments ... after which the prime minister took over ... as bound in duty.
He didn't he just said that the noise regulations are regional matters...nothing more.

Brussels is asking already a couple of years to discuss it and this noise regulations are there also to put pressure to start this discussion.
Last edited by lumumba on 09 Feb 2017, 19:44, edited 1 time in total.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by jan_olieslagers »

So the prime minister took over...

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