Where to base the Belgian A400M ?

[Desert Rat]

Belgium does not have a gunship as the AC-130. Our proud nation could fulfill the last 20 years very few combat duties because of the lack of ...combat equipment ( OK, we bombed Lybia )

We develloped the C-130 for all kind of relieve flights.
But we did not do something to search and destroy terrorists.

My suggestion is that we devellop our own version of the A400 gunship. And than we exercise a bit with it. I propose Marche en Famenne or Elsenborn in Wallonia; and Leopoldsburg in Flanders. No space to try out Vulcan guns above Brussels, so Melsbroek is out of the question.

So the region that wants to have the A400 base should also pay for the development of a A400 gunship platform + organise target excercises above its territory.

.

I really like the idea khun Regi...

[b-west]

See, once pushed you do manage to come up with arguments that go beyond a boring "sale flamouch/luie walen" attitude. You've gone from: "it should be in Wallonie cause the Flemish are stealing the army", you've gone to a more rational and well argumented case for putting the base at Florennes. Well done!

Personally, I don't really care where the planes are based. The impact of the handful of army flights on the total flights at BRU is negligable, so I don't really think it will matter noise or congestion wise. And even though they might wish so, BRU is far from congested. It is handy to have the VIP flights at BRU, so they should probably stay at Melsbroek.

Also, I'm not too sure how many new jobs this might bring to the area. I can imagine most of the current C130 staff will move to the A400. If you base the a/c somewhere else this may lead to disgruntled staff having to move or having a much longer commute. Imagine living near Steenokkerzeel and all of a sudden having to commute to the deep Ardennes.




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[Desert Rat]

See, once pushed you do manage to come up with arguments that go beyond a boring "sale flamouch/luie walen" attitude. You've gone from: "it should be in Wallonie cause the Flemish are stealing the army", you've gone to a more rational and well argumented case for putting the base at Florennes. Well done!

Imagine living near Steenokkerzeel and all of a sudden having to commute to the deep Ardennes.

I never said sale flamoutch and I never said that flemish are stealing the army...

I said, the AVV attitude should change to a fair balance between both communities...

For your information Florennes is not in the deep Ardennes, but in "entre sambre et meuse".

Also, don't act like you are educating me!

[Toutpti]

FYI there are no buildings or infrastructure that fits A400M requirements...
Even at EBMB the hangars are too small and it goes the same for Florennes and Beauvechain!
It needs a complete re-building... in a logistic and maintenance POV

[Desert Rat]

FYI there are no buildings or infrastructure that fits A400M requirements...
Even at EBMB the hangars are too small and it goes the same for Florennes and Beauvechain!
It needs a complete re-building... in a logistic and maintenance POV

I was refering to the buidings and infrastructure left by the TLP, US air force, I know that the hangar in Florennes are too small for the A400M. but you just need one hangar for heavy maintenance task, a place where you can jack the A/C up or perform some paint job.

Anyway I doubt the military will invest in tooling and heavy equipment just for 8 A/C's, the heavy maintenance will probably be sub-contacted to an MRO like it is the case now with the C130 @ sabena technics.

[Stij]

Personally I don't care that much either, however a few remarks on Florennes.

- advantages of scale with the Embraer / Falcon fleet (I don't see our politicians and bureaucrats driving all the way to Florennes)
- 27km from E411 and E42 isn't close to the highways
- The paratrooper training area is (was???) Schaffen. Then Florennes would be a bit far I'm afraid.

Therefore: Beauvechain would be a better idea:

- On that bl**dy stupid language border
- On average 10km from E40 and E411
- Even closer to Schaffen than BRU
- Just 20km further away from the Schuman Square than BRU if we want to move the Embraer / Falcon fleet as well.
- Runway of 2800m, should do the trick...

Cheers,

Stij

[Ecam]

- The paratrooper training area is (was???) Schaffen. Then Florennes would be a bit far I'm afraid.

Then there is also KB to pick up the para's. 42 km from Schaffen. Schaffen-Melsbroek= 60 km. So even closer, and no traffic jams. Florennes-KB, what, 10 min flying time ?
Kasterlee (3rd Para)-KB=50 km, Flawinne (2nd Commando)-Florennes= 30 km. For both much closer than Melsbroek.

But if we look further, say the distance Crembo is looking for the replacement of the F-16, with whatever aircraft (F-35, F-18 or MiG as has been suggested somewhere on this site ), I believe it will be hard to get sufficient political and public support to provide both Wings with new aircraft @ 115 mln € a piece (F-35). And splitting one Wing between Florennes and KB is not the way to go either. So I can imagine that long term planning would make one base obsolete for fighters ones the F-16 is phased-out, presumed a new fighter will be procured. Therefore basing the A400 at Florennes would make some (political) sence to "keep the church in the middle".
And for the excelenties themselves, a small detachment that operates white bodies (ERJ only, leased ?) at Melsbroek for the Belgian government officials, as well as NATO and EU hot-shots. Why not.

The few military flights at Melsbroek are peanuts for BRU. What intrests BAC more is the space Melsbroek is using.

[regi]

My suggestion is that we devellop our own version of the A400 gunship. And than we exercise a bit with it.
.

I really like the idea khun Regi...

Thank you.
But I think that very few people regard this as feasable or even discussable.

On the other hand... an A400 gunship would be a real stunner, isn't?

[Ecam]

Airbus is already working on a C295 gunship.

[sn26567]

The decision on where to base the Belgian A400M aircraft has been delayed by several weeks. (Source: HLN)

[jan_olieslagers]

What a load of non-arguments!

no one can see the military installation

Anybody who wants to know where they are will find them very very quick. There's no secrecy in the 21st century. Not for civilians, even less for the military.

Our proud nation could fulfill the last 20 years very few combat duties

Remember the Belgian participation in Šiauliai, against ISIS today, over the Balkans in the Yugoslavian vechtscheiding. Belgium is a most respected NATO partner especially for its air force.

gunship

As if our big brothers (France, Germany, UK) had any.

an A400 gunship would be a real stunner

Ridiculous. For as little as I know of military requirements, an A400 is far too heavy for this role.

Runway of 2800m

Not relevant for this category of plane, STOL capacities are among their prime criteria.

A little bit of opinion on my side (not that anybody will take care, or even notice...) : yes, the real estate of the EBMB terminal could see better use. Our budget-plagued military have an opportunity there! The "white planes" need to remain as close to the capital as possible, but there is little reason to keep the troop transports there. Where to move them is little relevant. Beauvechain seems most central, indeed.

[regi]

I know that it sounds a bit ridiculous.
It was jus a bit "out of the box thinking"

1 hangar to fully accept a A-400 ?
Hm...good as long as you don't need to do more asap.
Maybe a good idea for 1 fixed hangar. And a temporarely system, as our proud tent manufacturer Veldeman makes them in Limburg, also for military applications.
Let the boys play around with their 3D system for a day or 2, and at the end of the week you have a temporarely shelter. Add another day to fly it somewhere to the world.
http://www.veldemangroup.com/nl/referen ... upport-air