Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

[OO-ITR]

Think about this for a second:
Flanker2 probably spends a lot of time posting on hln too, or do you really think that somebody as obsessed with this topic can refrain from posting his opinions there and limits himself to just reading along and quoting from it here? Of course not! That's not his style, is it?
Flanker2 always needs to have the last word like a real know-all, so he most probably quoted himself already quite a few times here, thus happily cross feeding this topic by first delivering exactly the required content to support his view on hln and then quote from it here to make a point.

Well if you are using quotes on hln.be as a reference, it says enough to me....

[Flanker2]

OO-ITR, hln.be is the largest news outlet in Belgium.
So if most people there don't agree with SN/government, it is a reference IMO.
How else do you suggest we pulse Belgium's opinions? By setting up a poll on SN fan forum luchtzak.be?

One day I'm accused to work for the FSB or FIS, the next for a competitor of SN.
Which one is it people? Make up your mind.
Obviously when the heat is too much, we revert to the old politics game of attacking the credibility.

What about SN's own crews, whom according to a union rep., are increasingly refusing to operate Ebola flights, which could lead to cancellations. Are they too acting irrationally?

by Homo Aeroportus » Yesterday, 21:44

Meanwhile, …
The humanitarian relief & health operations continue in West Africa (epidemiological week 41).
This involves thousands of personnel including hundreds of foreign health care workers, e.g. a multidisciplinary team of 165 Cubans arrived in Sierra Leone last week. Large quantities of material such as PPE, beds, tents, disinfecting agents, … (+6000m³ since early September) also need to be transported.

Air transport is organized within the three countries and with the outside world.
As from this week, the schedule is as follows :

Wow great organisation. We're saved then and shouldn't worry anymore.

You're forgetting the largest contributors:
-USAF C17's airlift operations, 3000 US army troops
-U.K. 750 troops, 3 helicopters and a medical ship

The USAF's own airlift operation probably does in 1 day what SN's cargo space does in a month, and for free!
And even that will not be enough.

SN's cargo space dedicated to Ebola comes after the generous pax luggage which probably takes up almost half of the cargo space, commercial cargo for DKR and the Ebola-3. How much is there left for Ebola?
How much do you really think they're carrying to the Ebola-3?
Also, the A333 is no B77W. The excess cargo capacity is not nearly as significant.

If this spreads to the rest of the world, the international community's reactions will be to completely quarantine the Ebola-3 countries, including any medical, logistical help and staff, as they too can carry the virus in and out of the Ebola-3.

If you really think that SN is doing this to help the 3 African countries, you are naive enough to believe in unicorns.

[sean1982]

SN unions are now calling to stop flying to ebola countries
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/957/Binnenland ... nden.dhtml

[airazurxtror]

Ook de liberale vakbonden van Brussels airport :

http://www.brusselnieuws.be/nl/nieuws/l ... ola-landen

Extracts :
De liberale vakbond bij Brussels Airport vraagt de opschorting van alle vluchten naar de ebola-gebieden. Zowel het vliegend als het grondpersoneel maakt zich volgens de bond steeds meer zorgen.

"Bij Brussels Airlines zijn steeds minder mensen bereid om vluchten van en naar West-Afrika uit te voeren", zegt Thierry Vuchelen van de liberale vakbond ACLVB. De vakbond eist dat de luchthaven woensdag een globaal ebolaplan voorlegt, zoniet dreigt de vakbond met acties en met het stilleggen van de vluchten naar West-Afrika.

[Flanker2]

SN unions are now calling to stop flying to ebola countries
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/957/Binnenland ... nden.dhtml

1. The cabin crew's fears are irrational.
2. They're spreading panic for nothing.
3. They have a higher chance of dying from the flu or AIDS.
4. Protective equipment is provided, so they have nothing to worry about.
5. They are so selfish, because it's more important that medical aid can travel to the Ebola-3 on SN, as this will make their job safer in the future.


10.000 new infections per week from December as per WHO. The WHO, not hln.be.
According to the CDC, not hln.be, 100.000 new infections per week in December is worst-case scenario.
-Fortunately, SN is fighting this fight for us, so we can sleep on both ears.
-Some collateral damage is possible in Belgium and elsewhere, but that's an acceptable risk for the 3 or 4 pallets per day of aid SN is carrying there, as well as the doctors, because there is no other way of bringing that aid there.
-To worry about it is just irrational.
-If you worry, you are spreading panic and are automatically a troll.

I thought I would save the SN fans and managers the effort of posting their excuses.
If this spreads into Belgium and innocent children die, the managers at SN and some politicians will have to hide very far away.

[sn26567]

With "ifs" you can put Paris in a bottle.

Envoyé de mon GT-I9100 en utilisant Tapatalk

[airazurxtror]

Mister Gustin and his minions will be called to account when (not "if") they'll bring a case in the country. They don't stop the flights, it's their choice.
One wonders that the minister in charge is not more involved - the same for the unions at BRU and SN.

[SN1203]

Flanker - Nobody gives a sh*t about what users comment on hln.be. The average Joe Public doesn't know the details behind ebola or whatever else (user comments are usually funny too when it comes to politics etc.). Neither do I claim to know what measures an airline company should (or should not) take in reference to ebola.

There are sufficient qualified people available in the field to make these decisions. If it wouldn't be safe to operate, SN would have stopped flying already.

Same with your reference to the unions - if there's panic among the crew or ground staff (be it justified or just part of the general psychosis), the unions have to come with the question to stop flying, even when it's not justified. This is called politics, and doesn't necessarily have to be based on facts.

If you really are such a self-proclaimed business man, you shouldn't have so much free time to spare on an internet forum. Please do your business a favour and focus on your company. There are sufficient other experts here with way too much time on their hands to continue the anti-SN lobby.

[airazurxtror]

If it wouldn't be safe to operate, SN would have stopped flying already.

Most other airlines - including Air France and British Airways - have stopped flying there, thinking it's unsafe.
Who is right ? The future will tell.

[nordikcam]

If it wouldn't be safe to operate, SN would have stopped flying already.

Most other airlines - including Air France and British Airways - have stopped flying there, thinking it's unsafe.
Who is right ? The future will tell.

Not right ! AF is flying daily from CDG to CKY ! And SN two times a week !

[Inquirer]

Apparently Air France will resume Conacry soon?
And some British airline will start flying to Freetown if I am not mistaken too, so clearly airlines are returning to the area and the tide is turning, I'd say.

[SN1203]

Most other airlines - including Air France and British Airways - have stopped flying there, thinking it's unsafe. Who is right ? The future will tell.

Why don't you think a little bit further... Sierra Leone and Liberia are far from important for British Airways, so it's easy for them to pull the plug and explain it due to "safety concerns".

For Air France these destinations clearly weren't a commercial success in the pre-ebola era, as they always kept a very low presence after launching services a few years ago. One wonders why they keep daily flights to Conakry if operating into ebola countries is such an issue. The fact that the French Government asked them to stop was probably a coordinated approach with Air France to have a way out, so that all efforts could be focused on Guinea.

The truth is not always what you read on a news website...

[Flanker2]

If it wouldn't be safe to operate, SN would have stopped flying already.

Tell it to the young and cute nurse who got infected in Dallas. Ask her if she thinks that SN's operations were safe for her.

We'll talk again when hundreds of Belgians are infected and all the doctors leave Ebola countries to attend to patients in their own countries, abandoning the Ebola-3 to their fate.
But we don't see that coming, do we, because we only look as far as our nose.

We have passed a threshold where it's now harder to stop this thing than it is for it to expand.

It's better to take extra precautions at this stage and be safe, even if it leads to nervousness.
But as usually, Belgium is very relaxed and not preparing adequately, and they panic afterwards...

[nordikcam]

We'll talk again when hundreds of Belgians are infected and all the doctors leave Ebola countries to attend to patients in their own countries, abandoning the Ebola-3 to their fate.
But we don't see that coming, do we, because we only look as far as our nose.

We have passed a threshold where it's now harder to stop this thing than it is for it to expand.

It's better to take extra precautions at this stage and be safe, even if it leads to nervousness.
But as usually, Belgium is very relaxed and not preparing adequately, and they panic afterwards...

Excuse me...sir ! Are u doctor, Ebola's specialist ?

[Flanker2]

Excuse me...sir ! Are u doctor, Ebola's specialist ?

NO are you?


Breaking news:
2nd health care worker tests positive for Ebola at Dallas hospital

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/15/healt ... -outbreak/

So 2 people infected by the guy transported to Dallas by SN...
Well done!

[Inquirer]

Tell it to the young and cute nurse who got infected in Dallas.

Oh dear, how close to a tabloid style can you get?
All that's missing is a picture with her posing with a small child, even if just that of her neighbours.

Pretty sad to see how you try to link brussels airlines to events over which it has no control, like a lack of correct isolation standards in a country which you said was so great at it.

By the same logic you just rolled out here, is it okay to say thousands of burglars, thiefs and rapists have been brought to Western Europe by flights offered by airlines from Eastern Europe? Of course not!
And the same applies to your reasoning too, so it's a real shame you start making the weirdest and most dangerous of reasonings just because you really have lost your self-control as well as your senses over all this to the point you are quickly loosing any credibility which you had left.

[Flanker2]

Health officials say second Dallas hospital worker tests positive for Ebola
THE TEXAS Department of State Health Services says a second healthcare worker at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital, above, has tested positive for the Ebola virus, one day after the nation's largest nurses' union alleged that caregivers were not given adequate protection or training for treating the first Ebola patient, Thomas Duncan.

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/10/1 ... tal-tests/


Also Tuesday, National Nurses United made troubling allegations about the hospital, claiming "guidelines were constantly changing" and "there were no protocols" about how to deal with the deadly virus."
"The protocols that should have been in place in Dallas were not in place, and that those protocols are not in place anywhere in the United States as far as we can tell," NNU Executive Director RoseAnn DeMoro said. "We're deeply alarmed."
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/15/healt ... -outbreak/

[airazurxtror]

http://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20141015_01322483

Extracts :

De bagagisten van Brussels Airport zullen niet langer bagage of vrachten behandelen uit een aantal met ebola geconfronteerde Afrikaanse landen. Dat heeft het ABVV gezegd. Eerder riep de liberale vakbond op om alle vluchten naar ebola-landen te schrappen tot het personeelt voldoende geïnformeerd is over de epidemie.
'Door gebrek aan concrete procedures vanuit de luchthavenautoriteiten hebben wij besloten dat de bagagisten geen bagage/vrachten meer zullen behandelen afkomstig uit Guinee, Liberia, Sierra Leone, delen van Congo en Nigeria', luidt het in een mededeling van de socialistische vakbond.
Het ABVV nam die beslissing naar eigen zeggen in samenspraak met de militanten die actief zijn op de luchthaven. De acties zullen volgens de vakbond voortduren tot er duidelijke garanties zijn over het besmettingsgevaar.
‘Niet alleen het cabinepersoneel, maar ook het grondpersoneel, zoals bagagisten, cleaning en catering, stellen zich steeds meer vragen’, aldus Vuchelen. ‘Zij komen ook onrechtstreeks in contact met die vluchten.’

The bagagisten at Brussels Airport will no longer deal with luggage or cargo from a number of African countries faced with ebola, said the ABVV. Previously the liberal union called to scrap all flights to Ebola countries until the personnel is sufficiently informed about the epidemic.
" Due to lack of concrete procedures from the airport authorities , we have decided that the bagagisten will treat no luggage or cargo from Guinea, Sierra Leone, parts of Congo and Nigeria ' , says in a statement the socialist trade union.
ABVV took that decision in their own words , in consultation with the militants operating in the airport. The actions will continue until clear guarantees are given about the risk of infection .

'Not only the crew but also the ground staff , as bagagisten , cleaning and catering , are asking more and more questions , " says Vuchelen . " They also come indirectly into contact with those flights ."

[sn-remember]

Think about this for a second:
Flanker2 probably spends a lot of time posting on hln too, or do you really think that somebody as obsessed with this topic can refrain from posting his opinions there and limits himself to just reading along and quoting from it here? Of course not! That's not his style, is it?
Flanker2 always needs to have the last word like a real know-all, so he most probably quoted himself already quite a few times here, thus happily cross feeding this topic by first delivering exactly the required content to support his view on hln and then quote from it here to make a point.

This post typically should be moderated IMO
Bcs it hits the player instead of the ball ..

[Passenger]

Ebola was discussed with two experts in yesterday's "Reyers Laat", a talkshow on VRT (Flemish tv): virologue prof. Marc Van Ranst and doctor Meinie Nicolai, president Médecins Sans Frontières / Dokters Zonder Grenzen explained what is happening now:

http://www.canvas.be/programmas/reyers- ... uid=291140

(Van Ranst and Nicolai are the first guests in the program, so you won't have to look the full 42 minutes)