Any chance for A321 for Brussels Airlines?

[Inquirer]

For the last couple of weeks, I've been flying on very full A320 flights, so this got me thinking: Brussels Airlines are the only airbus operator from the Lufthansa airlines group which isn't flying the A321 at present, and in fact they seem to belong to a very select club of European network airlines operating the single aisle Airbusses without having the A321 in the mix. Any reason why that is and is it to change soon?
Thank you!

[Stij]

Probably a lot of people on this forum know better, but wasn't the original plan to stick with A319. The A320 were then leased for the Club Med flights...

Personally, I suggest more frequencies first and start A321 flying when they're at 5-6 flights a day...

Cheers,

Stij

[AvroRider]

Just for the fun !
http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairl ... 000363.jpg

[AirOpinion]

I believe the next A321 will be with Thomas Cook, no?

[OO-ITR]

Probably a lot of people on this forum know better, but wasn't the original plan to stick with A319. The A320 were then leased for the Club Med flights...
j

no the A320s came in to replace the B734s. It wouldn't be a wise idea to lease A320s for a two year Club Med contract...

[MiStEr-T]

Just for the fun !
http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairl ... 000363.jpg

LoL I make this combo loonng time ago ^^ thx for posting

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TBK

[crew1990]

I still wondering why SN is not looking after some A321 there is some route with many flights like Berlin 6 flights daily, Geneve 7 flight daily Milan area 6 flights daily. Even some destination like Malaga get 4 flight daily.

There is some destination with long destination like Moscou and Tel Aviv wich could be operated in A321 to increase the capacity by using a bigger aircraft instead of increasing the frequency.

And feeding destination like Paris CDG witch could be a nice A321 destination

The A321 could permit to SN to have more flexible capacity and reduce the cost drastically.

When will they have a look at it?

[Flanker2]

The A321 only has a place at SN if they operate it on services like TLV or Africa.
It brings a step up in costs compared to the A319 or A320, it burns more fuel and costs more to lease, fees are higher, handling costs more, maintenance costs more, additional cabin crew, etc... so it only makes sense if you can fill the extra seats at a good price.
SN's average load factor in its current fleet is too low. The A321 can only be filled by selling the additional seats cheap, so it doesn't really make sense.

For me they can stay far away from it, they just don't have the routes for it.
To Africa I would accept it along with A319's. A320 would not be suited to Africa, not enough payload-range.

SN's problem with the additional LCC competition is no longer whether they need a bigger aircraft. The only way to stay ahead of LCC competition is to operate high frequencies using smaller aircraft with a low cost per seat...Doesn't that sound familiar?
Merging frequencies on Berlin would be a big mistake as they will open the market for Easyjet. The only reason SN was able to maintain GVA over U2 competition was thanks to its high-frequency strategy.

That being said, you can only do a high frequency service when the route is meaningful and brings in money... so it's useless to increase frequencies on Lisbon now for instance.

Operating larger aircraft makes sense when you have a big demand and you don't need to worry about competition. Does that sound like SN's description?

Operating larger aircraft in an attempt to cut costs...that's plain stupid.
You can only cut costs if you can A. sell the additional seats, B. at a good price and C. if Ryanair doesn't take away half your pax on the next day because then you get stuck with a bigger, more empty airplane.

I think that it's funny how SN is adding A319/A320 as if to convince itself that its "volume strategy" is working. If they had added smaller turboprop aircraft and have gone more into regional niches, they would be making money right now and Vueling would still be home in Barcelona and Ryanair in CRL where it belongs.

[cnc]

handling costs more

just a small detail but i have never seen a handling contract where narrowbody aircraft subtypes decrease or increase handling price. an A319 will be the same as an A321

[Flanker2]

Usually handling fees are calculated on pax number basis within an aircraft family, indeed.
However, there are items that cost more based on subtypes, such as cleaning, parking, towing and use of power/GPU. Regarding towing: Some towbars can only go up to the A320, which sometimes requires the purchase of the larger more expensive towbar for the A321 and some handlers at smaller airports can charge extra for that.
Supposedly additional pax will bring an increase in handling fees while those additional pax will on average pay less for their ticket... another example of why the additional seats and pax will cause and increase in handling fees, allbeit with a corresponding increase in revenue.

[b720]

As someone here been insisting, they can install proper c class seats, full flat..
And entertainment in y class each seat..send those 321s o TLV DME and my be DAK and BJL,
Maybe FNA and ROB .. BA served this two destinations with 321 in the past.. Offering daily
Flights and freeing up ths 330s..

[flieger]

Flanker2 is right. In the current conditions, an A321 or A321's would only make sense on the TLV route and some North-African routes that aren't flown by Brussels Airlines, compared to what Sabena did.
Right now, it would be adding another aircraft type, even if many commonalities within the A320 family, to an already small airline in terms of fleet...

[crew1990]

The A321 could make sense as well on the Paris route.

As Paris is exclusively a feeding destination, all the flights to/from Paris have to be between the arrival of the long haul around 6 am and between the departure of the long haul at 11 am this is why on this route it s point les to have many frequency as this is not the point. All the capacity of this route have to be used between 6 am and 11 am. And there is no time for a BRU-CDG-BRU-CDG-BRU-CDG-BRU so if they want to increase the capacity, and i m sure the want because both flight are full, they will have to use a bigger equipment.

[flieger]

I would see Paris disappear in the coming years due to high speed train connections...

[crew1990]

It brings a step up in costs compared to the A319 or A320, it burns more fuel and costs more to lease, fees are higher, handling costs more, maintenance costs more, additional cabin crew, etc... so it only makes sense if you can fill the extra seats at a good price.

Ok an A321 cost more in fuel, maintenance etc... But in a full eco configuration you can put up to 220 pax on a A321 while you only put 180 on a A320. So the cost will be divided in morer people and at the end, even if the operation cost are higher, the pax will pay less for his ticket and the company will get more money. And this is also what think Wizzair and Germania witch both decided to change their order in A319 to A321.

As someone here been insisting, they can install proper c class seats, full flat..
And entertainment in y class each seat..send those 321s o TLV DME and my be DAK and BJL,
Maybe FNA and ROB .. BA served this two destinations with 321 in the past.. Offering daily
Flights and freeing up ths 330s..

I don t see the A321 going to destination to west Africa, let´s not forget that apart from pax, SN is as well shipping many cargo and they couldnt do this with a narrow-body.

Some good destination where I could see the A321 is Morocco, there is a high demand of passengers, and the frequency of the flight doesn t mater as this is not a business destination but a ethnic destination. It already happend to th RAM to fly the 747 to Belgium in Summer or Chrismas.

[Bapt']

According to intern source, OO-SSA, SSB, SSD and SSN will leave the fleet by 2018 and will be replaced by A321.

[Inquirer]

Wow, you have revived an old topic of mine sir, and in a very interesting way, I must say!

It will be most interesting to follow up on this piece of news/rumour you've just shared with more/official confirmation, but given they have had no problems to grow explosively over the past years (taking out the effect of the terrorist attacks in Q2 and Q3 of this year), they may indeed be ready for the next logical step indeed: get rid of part of their smaller/older airbus planes and replace them by bigger/newer ones!

If the news is indeed confirmed, it does put substance to their plans of getting 45% market share in BRU (see other topic) as this capacity change to their Airbus fleet is a sign they're after another round of explosive passenger volume growth in the next few years.

[DeltaWiskey]

Yes, it's true. Originally, the first A321 was to join during SU17, but this was pushed back until WI17 (replacing the last RJ). Then a further 3 will join during SU18 (replacing 3 A319's).

[crew1990]

It's a logical step to reduce the cost and beat Ryanair and their 189 seater.

The only thing is that sn must be able to fill them, but I have no doubt about that, just the Paris and Tel Aviv flight which will be full can be using 2 of those 4 A321, and the 2 other one can e used on routes with high demand like Geneve, Milan, Nice, Barcelona, etc

It's in my opinion a very smart move.

If no other aircraft are added, the fleet will consist in:

19 A319 (Sabena had 16)
10 A320 (Sabena had 6)
4 A321 (Sabena had 3)

[Inquirer]

Yes, it's true. Originally, the first A321 was to join during SU17, but this was pushed back until WI17 (replacing the last RJ). Then a further 3 will join during SU18 (replacing 3 A319's).

Thank you for this detailed info!

Sounds like they will just continue upsizing the size of their planes when the Avro is gone, starting with taking out (some) of their first A319s?