700 jobs threatened at Brussels Airlines?

[B.Inventive]

yes

[Pocahontas]

Where who is invited?

[Pocahontas]

Is it a secret then?

[RoMax]

Flanker (no personal attack!) will not be happy, Bernard Gustin is complaining to the EU again, but please keep in mind this is (next to being ceo of SN) also his job as current president of the AEA (normally this title is just for 1 year, but his term was expanded to 2 years).
Together with Athar Husain Khan (another big man in the AEA) he complained about the ETS (EU airlines/pax still have to pay it for intra-EU routes). He and Gustin want a consistend policy from the EU in aviation, making an end to unfair competition. Of the 33 AEA-members, 30 are losing money, Gustin speaks about a structural problem. A united European airspace (they try to do it already since 2004, but it's going much slower than expected) will already be a big step as it will save up to 15% on fuel costs. A crucial number for several airlines, the difference between being profitable and losing money, Gustin speaks about 45 million each year for SN.
This was said after the yearly AEA-summit (in Brussels this time, and for the first time open for non-AEA members like representatives of the EU)

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/942/Economie/a ... n-EU.dhtml

And by now it's also in some newspapers and websites that the negotiations between the pilotunions and SN's management are proceeding, but in a very tense atmosphere. The unions have the idea they already gave enough (almost 20 million savings next year and 10,9 million structural savings as from 2015), while the management still wants (much) more. And time is getting up, final decisions about the long haul expansion have to be made soon but these may not be made before they come to an agreement.

[Flanker]

Well no Mr. Boeing, I'm happy that Gustin is complaining about ETS. ETS is a ridiculous measure to use global warming as an excuse to extricate taxes, this is inexcusable and stupid of the EU. It would be justified if the money were to be used to plant trees, or to invest in wind energy, but there is no such plan.

This affects SN's cost base directly, so it's Gustin's job to complain about it as much as he can and to make sure that his and other airlines shouldn't pay any taxes.
It also affects other airlines in the same way, so this is an issue that all European airlines should unite to fight.

The single European sky has been in the making since more than 10 years, it's about time that it gets done.
The next big thing that airlines can benefit from is Galileo (expected end of the decade). This will enable airlines to cross reference GPS sat nav with Galileo sat nav for precision navigation and relay coordinates to ATC through the mode S, doing away with all the old methods of navigating and reporting, using DME and VOR waypoints.
Airlines need to put pressure on the OEM's and the politicians to make sure that the system goes online in time and that it can be implemented asap.

[teddybAIR]

The single European sky has been in the making since more than 10 years, it's about time that it gets done.

I agree that it is urgent, but it will come for sure. 10 years to implement such drastic changes is short, taking into account that every system, procedure, component in aviation has to be as close to 100% reliable as humanly possible. And unfortunately, it takes time to exclude as many errors as possible.

Meanwhile, Gustin is just performing his duties as CEO of a european based airline and president of the AEA when he challenges the competitive disadvantage that ETS creates for european based airlines. IMHO the principle behind ETS is sound, provided that is something that is implemented worldwide.

[RoMax]

Meanwhile, Gustin is just performing his duties as CEO of a european based airline and president of the AEA when he challenges the competitive disadvantage that ETS creates for european based airlines.

Yeay I completely agree, I just said 'that' because in the past certain members insinuated that this isn't the job van Gustin and he should be working on the reorganisation of SN itself (maybe I mistakinly associated this with Flanker, in that case, sorry), tough this is exactly Gustin's job as current president of the AEA and of course as CEO of a European airline.

[teddybAIR]

Fully agree!

Moreover, I think we should not underestimate the challenge SN's management faces. And by no means, I want to imply implicitely or explicitely that Brussels Airlines unions need to accept the terms and conditions proposed by management. I just have insufficient info to be able to judge that with reasonable context.

We just should not forget that although it is 10+ years ago: Brussels Airlines is an airline that inherited a great deal from Sabena. Now we all know that Sabena was not the most agile company and proved 1 think in its 75+ years of existence: it's inability to turn a profit. Knowing that SN Brussels Airlines and later Brussels Airlines inherited people, procedures, systems, culture, etc. from Sabena, you can assume that this is a ship you don't turn around overnight. From the very beginning, management faced financially dire straights, an infavorable economic environment (but that's valid for any airline, really), high union bargaining power, etc.

All things considered, my humble opinion is that Brussels Airlines is not doing that bad after all. But that does not change the fact that a company facing 70m€ loss over 1 fiscal year faces some of the toughest decisions it can be forced to make.

[B.Inventive]

Is it a secret then?

no, everyone was invited.
they proposed their new plan
it's similar to that of b.air + additional job losses
they claim there are airlines in belgium with a lower cost structure than tcab... seems they are just copying excuses now...

[BrusselsAirlines]

Where can we find the cost structure that everyone seems to know from its competitors...
Is that published somewhere?? Maybe in the central economical book in the library of Zaventem??

Yeah right.

People at TC, good people, have never dared to react to the changes in order not to loose their job.
In the end all this goodwill might be worthless.

[Flanker]

It's not that hard to find actually.
You take the CAO, read off the minimum wages, take your ruler and follow the seniority linked minimum-wages and you should get around there.

It's tough times everywhere, well ... almost everywhere.
Managements in panic mode... it's 2008 all over again, but this time it's centered in Europe. Is it going to get ugly? Europe is keeping inflation tight, very tight, by covering money supplies with issuance of debt notes., Sorry it's not Europe, it's Merkel. The Germans learned the hard way that hyperinflation was a main cause of Hitler coming to power and this time they are so obsessed in avoiding it that they are impeding the economic recovery.

Printing money is good when the supply of money is tight. Quantitative easing is badly needed in Europe right now, for there is need for investments in agricultural, energy and mobility infrastructure, which will actually avoid further price increases and thus inflation, by controlling the supply-side.

Europe also needs to launch a common tax reform that centralizes and uniforms tax policies within the EU. You can't have a deformed economy unless everyone receives in the same proportions as they give, especially given that they manage the money supply together by using the same currency.
No need to take tax money from the livestock operator in Belgium to give it to the livestock operator in Poland or Greece. Sure the livestock operator in Poland will receive less money for his liter of milk, but he also pays less for feed, manpower, land and infrastructures.

Tax rates have to go down from the current highs to somewhere around 20-35% on the first 60.000€/year.
That''s the limit of the middle class. Above that 50%, as it's now is fine.

Stimulate SME initiatives, not by offering some meaningless training incentives but by offering government-backed loans for enterprises generating 10 millions or less per year in revenue.

This way, the middle class and the SME's would be able to increase travel budgets, increased supply of alternative energy sources will decrease demand for fossil fuels, leading to a decrease in price, thus leading to more prosperity at the airlines.

This is what airlines should be lobbying to their politicians if they want to get out of it asap.

[Inquirer]

Where can we find the cost structure that everyone seems to know from its competitors...Is that published somewhere?? Maybe in the central economical book in the library of Zaventem??

It's not such a secret as you may think: for a Collective Labour Agreement to take effect and to avoid that when a social conflict emerges each side comes up with his own version in court, a CLA needs to be formally deposited at the chancery of the Ministery of Labour, department Collective Labour Relations, which will review its content, approve it (if its content is legal) or send it back for rectification (if there are legal objections to the CLA) and will then keep it in file forever.

If you are truly interested in knowing the content of the CLA, you can always work your way through the administration to obtain a copy of it and then work out the differences between yours and theirs. That's one way to get an idea of the social cost structure of a Belgian competitor.

Another one is just to listen around a bit and to see if you don't have anybody on your managementsteam or your external consultancy team that used to work for or at the competitor because often there's more to the total work/pay package and thus cost structure of a company than meets the eye in just the CLA alone, so this may be a more effective method to get the full picture. Why do you think all those external consultants are so popular? They come with inside knowlegde of the competitors, but obviously, they also take out knowledge about you to the others in due time.

[teddybAIR]

Where can we find the cost structure that everyone seems to know from its competitors...
Is that published somewhere??

Yes it is. Provided that you know the name and/or VAT-number of the company/competitor you want to audit, you can find the historical figures of any company (including your employer!) on the website of the 'Nationale Bank van België' (www.nbb.be) on the condition that it has it's headquarters in Belgium.

So to answer your question: yes, the profit & loss statements, assets & liabilities and other key figures included in the 'jaarrekeningen' for juridical entities based in belgium are public information. You just have to know the source where you can access the info

[Inquirer]

Where can we find the cost structure that everyone seems to know from its competitors...
Is that published somewhere??

Yes it is. Provided that you know the name and/or VAT-number of the company/competitor you want to audit, you can find the historical figures of any company (including your employer!) on the website of the 'Nationale Bank van België' (http://www.nbb.be) on the condition that it has it's headquarters in Belgium.

So to answer your question: yes, the profit & loss statements, assets & liabilities and other key figures included in the 'jaarrekeningen' for juridical entities based in belgium are public information. You just have to know the source where you can access the info

And explained, the same exists for the Collective Labour Agreements too, so one can pretty much reverse engineer the cost structure of any company one wants, if one has time to do so.

Of course, the bigger question is: is it worth to do so in a Belgian context?
With only 3 meaningful companies left here and 1 being a notorious social boundry pusher (I am talking about Jetair), there isn't much to benchmark with, but of course there's always the European level to compare with. However, in that case it becomes far more problematic because you suddenly have ample choice of competitors to compare you with, meaning you have to select them wisely for you not to end up with meaningless comparisons, not to mention that even if you do it as careful as you can, you are often going to compare apples with oranges because of the different tax, pension and social security systems employees benefit from in other countries and which are obviously taken into account in their remuneration packages: simply transposing the same packages to Belgium can give huge net differences.

For a sector which is not bound by national territory like for instance EU wide road transport but indeed also aviation, Europe should urgently start to work on an integrated taxation, pension and social security system for all, because it is insane to allow companies from countries with much lower government seizure free and unhindered access to the markets of countries which seize much more from their own companies, without leveling the playing field first: it is indeed, as B.air's CEO has been saying for a long time, market distorting indeed and in many cases the differences are so huge there's just no way you can correct them as a company any longer.

[fcw]

SAS management will reduce their pay by 30%

This what I call: to give a good example!!!
Mr Gustin, if you are reading this...

[convair]

Does someone know the present situation on social negotiations at SN?

[airazurxtror]

Found this (in french) :

http://www.dhnet.be/infos/economie/arti ... omies.html


Discussions around the global savings plan are in their final stretch, it was learned from several sources involved in the negotiations.
They could end up Monday evening or at night.

[sn26567]

The discussions in Brussels Airlines around the overall savings plan will continue today (Tuesday). They appear in the final straight. A proposal for the cabin crew will be discussed including, according to a union source. "If this proposal is accepted by the staff, then we can speak of an agreement."

"We are indeed in the midst of negotiations. Discussions are taking place in a constructive way, and go in the right direction," stated the management of Brussels Airlines. However, it refused to communicate a deadline for an agreement while unions provided a deadline for Tuesday.

A framework agreement was concluded on efforts to provide by the pilots with respect to wages and flexibility. However, the same cannot be said for the cabin crew. Their unions would in fact request sufficient guarantees on the rest period.

Plan 'Beyond 2012-2013' provides for some 110 million euros in savings. Management has asked staff increased productivity, a freeze of the salary increases and part-time work for pilots. Brussels Airlines will trim its European network and expand its long-haul network, with one additional long-haul aircraft per year.

(with information from L'Echo and De Tijd)

[sn26567]

The federal government needs to approve an aid plan of 30 million euros for the Belgian aviation. If the plan is not approved, there is a risk of bankruptcy for Brussels Airlines, with disastrous consequences for the airports of Zaventem and Charleroi. According to a confidential memorandum made available to De Morgen there are from 7,000 to 10,000 jobs at stake.

According to government sources, next week State Secretary for Mobility Wathelet (CDH) will propose a plan to save the aviation sector. That plan is currently being prepared in detail. Until now, the government remains quiet about the situation of Brussels Airlines. The proposed plan shall not be regarded as State aid, which the European watchdog would quickly reject.

The support of the federal government will be limited annually to 30 million. The plan applies to all airlines, but Brussels Airlines would be by far the largest beneficiary. Remarkably, the Government also rings the alarm for the airports of Zaventem and Charleroi. If the plan fails, bankruptcy threatens for Brussels Airlines. Moreover, the consequences would be enormous for both airports, warns the note.

3,500 people work at Brussels Airlines, but there are 5,000 jobs indirectly connected with the airline. "According to the estimates of the potential job losses are calculated to be between 7,000 and 10,000", it says. Furthermore: "Brussels Airport would be a structural financial and strategic impasse (...) with a loss of 4 million passengers and between 60 and 80 million financial loss."

Also for Charleroi Airport, the consequences would be heavy if Brussels Airlines does not survive. The example of the airport of Girona in Spain is quoted: its jobs were lost in favour of Barcelona after the bankruptcy of Spanair. "It is possible that Ryanair would move from Charleroi to Brussels", the government estimates.

Specifically, the plan of the Government will help Brussels Airlines, but also Jetair and Thomas Cook, in their competition with Ryanair, which flies from Charleroi but whose are employees work under the cheaper Irish conditions.

The government might help Brussels Airlines through education, a reduction or elimination of the payroll taxes, or a reduction or elimination of social security contributions for staff working abroad.

The plan for the Belgian aviation industry would run until 2020. From then the European rules for all airlines will be the same and the same Irish or Luxembourg exceptions will disappear.

Next to the government plan there is also a strong saving operation at Brussels Airlines. This must be done without job losses. This plan must be approved by the Board in December. This is the condition for German airline Lufthansa to approve a capital injection of 100 million euros in Brussels Airlines. The objective is that the Belgian airline becomes profitable in 2014.

After De Morgen

[Acid-drop]

"It is possible that Ryanair would move from Charleroi to Brussels"

it possible that you die from a storm strike or a meteorit.
This scenario makes no sense unless BRU agrees to adapt very deeply their charges.
It's just a fog machine for the people of CRL : "agree our plan, it's safer for you".

The real problem of Brussels airlines is that it's a crappy airline !!
Almost every airline i've done in europe is better. Recently, I was impressed by Austrian and Czeck ... why would you even fly Bruair...
From London to Brussels, I had to take a f**** bus while the BA flight next to us had a airbridge. BruAir in BRU !! WTF !
They treat us like dogs. The service is bad, the planes are old.
I avoid flying BruAir as much as I can (in europe)